The Premiership vrs Europe & UEFA

x in the city

Mossy Monk wrote: »

How many Arsenal Premier League games have been shown live on Sky Sports this season and compare that with let's say Everton

Thats not comparing like for like

Arse have been in the CL all the time, they have a new stadium and had more funds available than Everton.

Even if Villa got into the CL, I would say they would be dumped out just like Everton were, its very difficult to be expected to do well in your first go at it. But once you compete every year its a different story

Once the top 4 broke into the CL, it was very hard for other teams to catch up. as the gap kept getting bigger.

The UEFA cup pays dole money compared to the CL.

How many times have people said Spurs will break into the top 4, I would say each season for the last 10 years :P

it just goes to show how hard it is for other teams now.

gosplan

The one point I would make about the big four which I feel is quite unhealthy is their seemingly immovable status at the top of the league.

Sure, every league in Europe is dominated by one or two teams who win all the trophies, that's just the nature of football.

However, there isn't another top league in Europe where the Champions League places are quite as preordained as the Premier League.

Of the top of my head Spain and Italy have given us (along with Milan, Inter, Juve, Barca, and Real) Lazio, Roma, Udinese, Fiorentina, Villareal, Betis, Valencia, Depor etc. (Maybe Athletico too?)

Admittedly, Everton had a shot at it a few years ago and failed miserably but the situation in the other leagues is far healthier. To be honest, the only thing I can see breaking the dominance is the same thing that made it - a big spender coming in and throwing a few hundred million at the problem - Go City!!!

(but it's a sad case when that's what it takes to finish fourth)

x in the city

gosplan wrote: »

The one point I would make about the big four which I feel is quite unhealthy is their seemingly immovable status at the top of the league.

Sure, every league in Europe is dominated by one or two teams who win all the trophies, that's just the nature of football.

However, there isn't another top league in Europe where the Champions League places are quite as preordained as the Premier League.

Of the top of my head Spain and Italy have given us (along with Milan, Inter, Juve, Barca, and Real) Lazio, Roma, Udinese, Fiorentina, Villareal, Betis, Valencia, Depor etc. (Maybe Athletico too?)

Admittedly, Everton had a shot at it a few years ago and failed miserably but the situation in the other leagues is far healthier. To be honest, the only thing I can see breaking the dominance is the same thing that made it - a big spender coming in and throwing a few hundred million at the problem - Go City!!!

(but it's a sad case when that's what it takes to finish fourth)

Everton were denyed a stone wall goal in that game, failed misreably I dont think so. we failed more miserably in the following UEFA cup campaign.

gosplan

x in the city wrote: »

Everton were denyed a stone wall goal in that game, failed misreably I dont think so. we failed more miserably in the following UEFA cup campaign.

Apologies, I stand corrected.

jesus_thats_gre

x in the city wrote: »

Everton were denyed a stone wall goal in that game, failed misreably I dont think so. we failed more miserably in the following UEFA cup campaign.

It was still a failure considering it was meant to be Everton's return to the world stage and an oppurtunity to pocket some of the much coveted CL money. The reason for going going out, while unfortunate, doesn't take away from the fact that it was a major antit-climax.

ShooterSF

citytillidie wrote: »

If you look thats sort of whats happening next season.

There is two different set of quailfy runs one for teams who are champions of leagues lower down on UEFA co effiencts and another path for teams who are not Champions like the team who finishs 4th in England could play the team who finishs 4th in Spain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Champions_League_2009-10

Wow. Had to read through that more than once Reminds me of the Alan Partridge sketch. So if all stay's the same Arsenal could end up playing Valencia, Genoa (?) or Hamburg in the qualifier. That'a an improvement. It means we might see bigger names get knocked out early.

LuckyLloyd

gosplan wrote: »

The one point I would make about the big four which I feel is quite unhealthy is their seemingly immovable status at the top of the league.

Sure, every league in Europe is dominated by one or two teams who win all the trophies, that's just the nature of football.

However, there isn't another top league in Europe where the Champions League places are quite as preordained as the Premier League.

Of the top of my head Spain and Italy have given us (along with Milan, Inter, Juve, Barca, and Real) Lazio, Roma, Udinese, Fiorentina, Villareal, Betis, Valencia, Depor etc. (Maybe Athletico too?)

Admittedly, Everton had a shot at it a few years ago and failed miserably but the situation in the other leagues is far healthier. To be honest, the only thing I can see breaking the dominance is the same thing that made it - a big spender coming in and throwing a few hundred million at the problem - Go City!!!

(but it's a sad case when that's what it takes to finish fourth)

Again, the competitive diversity of the other major European leagues relative to the EPL is grossly overestimated. Consider the champions produced in the major leagues starting from the 2000 / 1 season:

England: Arsenal, Chelsea, Man Utd
Spain: Valencia, Real Madrid, Barcelona
Italy: Roma (01), AC Milan, Juventus, Inter Milan*
Germany: FC Hollywood, Dortmund, Werder Bremen, Stuttgart (last three once)
France: FC Nantes (01), Lyon every year since
Portugal: Boavista (01), Benfica, Sporting (once each) Porto every other year
Holland: PSV, Ajax

*Lazio in 2000 and Roma in 2001 practically busted themselves financially winning Seria A and have paid the price since.


Who cares if they produce different CL qualifiers when the 100% cash money is split amongst groups every bit as selective as the EPL?

kinaldo

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Again, the competitive diversity of the other major European leagues relative to the EPL is grossly overestimated. Consider the champions produced in the major leagues starting from the 2000 / 1 season:

England: Arsenal, Chelsea, Man Utd
Spain: Valencia, Real Madrid, Barcelona
Italy: Roma (01), AC Milan, Juventus, Inter Milan*
Germany: FC Hollywood, Dortmund, Werder Bremen, Stuttgart (last three once)
France: FC Nantes (01), Lyon every year since
Portugal: Boavista (01), Benfica, Sporting (once each) Porto every other year
Holland: PSV, Ajax

*Lazio in 2000 and Roma in 2001 practically busted themselves financially winning Seria A and have paid the price since.


Who cares if they produce different CL qualifiers when the 100% cash money is split amongst groups every bit as selective as the EPL?

Deportivo La Coruña or Super Depor as they were known also won the Spanish league in 2000.

Another interesting stat is that Villarreal, a really tiny club, amassed more points in the calender year of 2007 than any other Spanish side. Not quite enough to win it though.

gosplan

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Again, the competitive diversity of the other major European leagues relative to the EPL is grossly overestimated. Consider the champions produced in the major leagues starting from the 2000 / 1 season.

That's not what I'm talking about. You're pointing out that the winners usually come from a select group.

I'm saying that this will be the fifth or sixth season in a row that the same four teams have entered the Champions League from the Premiership.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Who cares if they produce different CL qualifiers when the 100% cash money is split amongst groups every bit as selective as the EPL?

I'm not sure what you mean by that.


I'll put it this way: In Spain at the moment Malaga, Villareal, Athletico and Malaga are all vying for the fourth Champions League place. Genoa and Fiorentina are battling it out for the same spot in Italy.

In terms of competitiveness for Champions League qualification (which is what I was talking about in the first place), saying that the Premiership is lacking somewhat when compared to the other major European leagues isn't exactly grossly overestimating them.

But hey, it's only a big four because of Chelsea's roubles. Maybe City's oil money will shake it up a bit.

jesus_thats_gre

Don't worry, when one of the top EPL clubs end up not paying their players for 3 months, I am sure that the likes of Everton or Villa will step in to take their place.

I also reckon that if one of the top EPL clubs get relegated or docked a massive amount of points due to match fixing that you will see the next best club step in.

Each of the big league have their massive clubs and it is nothing to do with Sky or CL money. In Italy is it Milan, Inter and Juve. In England is Liverpool, United, Arsenal and recently Chelsea. In Spain it is Real and Barca. Look at the amount of supporters that these clubs have and have had.

leninbenjamin

Badabing wrote: »

Platini tried to change the Champions League and has to a certain extent from next season, but neither him or anyone in Uefa has the balls or the clout to take on the top teams in Europe. Top four leagues in Europe pay the most money to Uefa so they will always have 3/4 teams in Group stages of Champions League.

quite true. Monopolies mean more profit (not necessarily revenue), which mean more Money for the likes of UEFA and FIFA. this is why they are so reluctant to even things up.

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

There's no problem whatsoever in giving Platini grief because some of his ideas and comments deserve to be given grief. Buying into his guff is a bigger problem.

Remember Platini got his current position by pandering to the small FAs in UEFA. he's always going to make noise about the dominance of the big clubs, but he'll never do anything about it at the same time because he's as much a product of them as anything else.

there's no point putting blame on the PL and SKY. all they did was simply play the game well with the hand they are dealt. that hand was dealt by UEFA.

Another factor people are forgetting in all this is the role of the EU. there's no chance that dominance will end in European football while the EU is in existence, they enforce the labour and corporate regulations that feed into the existence of monopolies in sport.

x in the city

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Again, the competitive diversity of the other major European leagues relative to the EPL is grossly overestimated. Consider the champions produced in the major leagues starting from the 2000 / 1 season:

England: Arsenal, Chelsea, Man Utd
Spain: Valencia, Real Madrid, Barcelona
Italy: Roma (01), AC Milan, Juventus, Inter Milan*
Germany: FC Hollywood, Dortmund, Werder Bremen, Stuttgart (last three once)
France: FC Nantes (01), Lyon every year since
Portugal: Boavista (01), Benfica, Sporting (once each) Porto every other year
Holland: PSV, Ajax

*Lazio in 2000 and Roma in 2001 practically busted themselves financially winning Seria A and have paid the price since.

That's a legacy of Mr Sven...:P

Who cares if they produce different CL qualifiers when the 100% cash money is split amongst groups every bit as selective as the EPL?

But when a team Like Liverpool who have not won a domestic title for 19 years continue to participate in the CL without much success bar the Istanbul miracle, there obviously is a flaw in it., Im not having a pop at Pool here, it could be any big team in Europe, but not having won a league title for so long bellies the whole CL propaganda in the first place.