Dublin Bus-SIPTU approves clarification document

Cleopatra12

I believe that SIPTU have approved the clarification doc by a ballot of 56% in favour. Still fairly tight.

Have to say, i find it rather interesting that the NBRU are balloting over 2 days... hmm am suspicous!

puzzled

how does cleo know the result. she said she works for dublin bus in a office somewhere, yet she is privy to the results of a secret ballot at 2030 before the results have been announced to the rest of the public.
something fishy going on here!
The two unions have not fought for the drivers.
The head of the NBRU, Michael Faherty , his daughter is Cloina Ní Fhatharta the dublin bus spokeswoman.
Are cleo and cloina the same person?
Has her father been told the result by SIPTU and then passed this information on to her.

AlekSmart

I just Lurrvvvve a good conspiracy theory,and this situation has them in skipfulls.

However,I got word of a SIPTU Yes result at around 1950 so it must have been out there in the ether somewhere....
As for the NBRU double header,I reckon the massive drop in votes cast between the 1st and 2nd ballots might have concentrated the Union`s minds.

Nobody who voted yes did so with a big cheesy grin...This is and always was a fundemental dowbgrading of the Public Bus Service along with a degradation of the Busdrivers job.

The real slap in the face is that Bus Atha Cliath`s services will be seriously reduced and this will now almost certainly be followed by a plundering of Bus Èireann`s routes and staff.

But as we now largely realize the country has been raped by a collection of Criminals loosely draped in the mantle of Politics.
Let nobody think that Noel Dempsey has even the remotest interest in Improving Public Transport or of being concerned about it`s patrons.
This Minister for Transport is a Private Motoring man through and through and his focus is upon ensuring the financial health of the impending Private Toll Road projects.

Next stop...The CIE Wages Grade Pension fund "Problem".....ding ding !! :rolleyes:

MiniD

puzzled wrote: »

how does cleo know the result. she said she works for dublin bus in a office somewhere, yet she is privy to the results of a secret ballot at 2030 before the results have been announced to the rest of the public.
something fishy going on here!
The two unions have not fought for the drivers.
The head of the NBRU, Michael Faherty , his daughter is Cloina Ní Fhatharta the dublin bus spokeswoman.
Are cleo and cloina the same person?
Has her father been told the result by SIPTU and then passed this information on to her.

This was on the 6pm news on most radio stations. It was also covered on the RTE Six One news. Considering this thread was started at 20.34 you should probably apologise to the OP for unfair accusations.

SickCert

puzzled wrote: »

how does cleo know the result. she said she works for dublin bus in a office somewhere, yet she is privy to the results of a secret ballot at 2030 before the results have been announced to the rest of the public.
something fishy going on here!
The two unions have not fought for the drivers.
The head of the NBRU, Michael Faherty , his daughter is Cloina Ní Fhatharta the dublin bus spokeswoman.
Are cleo and cloina the same person?
Has her father been told the result by SIPTU and then passed this information on to her.

Sure i recieved the siptu result at 1730.

Chris_533976

AlekSmart wrote: »

This Minister for Transport is a Private Motoring man through and through and his focus is upon ensuring the financial health of the impending Private Toll Road projects.

I dont like him either but AFAIK there arent major plans to toll the four new PPPs.

The N11/N25 and the N17/18 wont be tolled (the second one DEFINATELY wont be). The M20 I dont know yet.

liger

Cleopatra12 wrote: »

I believe that SIPTU have approved the clarification doc by a ballot of 56% in favour.

yeah heard this on the 6pm update on newstalk. The 5.30 bulletin said they were still awaiting the result. A bit poor of every station to go and announce the strikes were averted, no mention of the NBRU ballot still being voted on. Unless the results are rigged and cleo told them what the result of that is going to be also.

Minister for transport should be renamed The minister for get there yourself.

meanmachine3

at the end of the day there was never going to be any strike, most bus drivers guessed that along time ago when the unions started acting the mick over the votes for industrial/ strike action. i have never been in favour for any of the changes and can hold my head high and say yes " i voted no".
i've said it before that when these changes come in everyone that gets the bus will be affected. remember 120 buses is alot of buses to be taken out of dublin. it's very strange that the N.B.R.U. hold a two day ballot on these proposals, the last ballot for exactly the same thing was only one day. the only difference between todays ballot and the one two weeks ago is "clarification" .nothing was added nor taken away. yet theres a big enough difference in the out come to turn things around.
liger this is basically a done deal. i know the N.B. ballots still have to be counted but i'll bet the margin will be around 65-70% in favour to accept new deal.i'd say the media is only assuming the strike is off because of the similarities in the last ballot. the N.B could never have allowed their members to go out on strike as they wouldn't have been able to afford it. i said somewhere that one of the unions is going to take a big hit over this and they still will.
it's been nice working with you guys, i say this because there'll be less time spent at home and more time spent in work. and things are going to get a whole lot worse for every driver. now this deal is basically done the company can get back to doing their witch hunt full time.
just in case you kind folk dont know. drivers are being reported and getting their asses hauled into the managers office for the slightest possible infringement . e.g. answering a passengers question whilest driving the bus even though you might be a frail old granny who's lost her way, ackowledging other colleagues on the road.i'm sure you all remember the drivers passing each other with a smile on their face well not anymore folks why? because we're too busy worrying on who's going to be first inspector to book us, issueing tickets to passengers when the bus has left the stop and so on and so forth.

Nostradamus

AlekSmart wrote: »

This Minister for Transport is a Private Motoring man through and through and his focus is upon ensuring the financial health of the impending Private Toll Road projects.

and likewise the CIE men are Union People through and through and their focus in upon ensuring that bus services are operated for the drivers and not the commuters.

As a public transport user I say a plague on both your houses.

puzzled

At the end of the day users of public transport are going to be the big loosers. The drivers I have a spoke to all agree that the service will suffer much worse in reality than the new preposed time tables suggest. If a bus cannot makes it's time now, how can it with less running time and less buses on the route to help?
Sad to say but our only hope is the NBRU rejecting the preposals.
One last question. Is there anyway for the public to see what was said during the negotiations between the management of Dublin bus, the unions and labour court? Is it hidden so the public won't be made aware of the dodgy deals twix unions and management?

antoinolachtnai

Surely the fact that demand has dropped will make a difference to the number of buses required at the peak time?

shltter

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Surely the fact that demand has dropped will make a difference to the number of buses required at the peak time?

There are still far more people traveling during peak time than could be accommodated on DBs current level of service never mind a reduction of 120 buses.

If you are in anyway serious about moving people to Public transport you won't achieve that by reducing the level of service.

shltter

NBRU drivers have accepted the Labour Court clarification by 57%



DB has announced that the service changes will commence on the 26th of April

Lets see how they get all these bills approved by then

antoinolachtnai

shltter wrote: »

There are still far more people traveling during peak time than could be accommodated on DBs current level of service never mind a reduction of 120 buses.

But is there enough space for the amount of people actually travelling by bus at the moment?

Cleopatra12

puzzled wrote: »

how does cleo know the result. she said she works for dublin bus in a office somewhere, yet she is privy to the results of a secret ballot at 2030 before the results have been announced to the rest of the public.
something fishy going on here!
The two unions have not fought for the drivers.
The head of the NBRU, Michael Faherty , his daughter is Cloina Ní Fhatharta the dublin bus spokeswoman.
Are cleo and cloina the same person?
Has her father been told the result by SIPTU and then passed this information on to her.

Excuse me but i heard it on the news on Fm 104 at 6 pm! I think you owe me an apology for that.

Oh and just to re-iterate, i have nothing to do with the Public affairs dept so let it go please....

Cleopatra12

meanmachine3 wrote: »

i said somewhere that one of the unions is going to take a big hit over this and they still will.

I heard this from a few drivers today in the my garage.... it was mentioned that there would be a big shift from one union to the other. Am very sketchy on details. Anyone got anymore info on this or why its going to happen?

puzzled

cleo sorry.
The NBRU are finished. Only wanted to keep new drivers so they could get union fees each week. Did not care about the conditions they would have to work. Everyone disgusted with them.
Imagine a new driver living down the är$e end of the country commuting to dublin every day. Now he is going to have to work 13 hour split shifts (start 0700,break 1200-1600, finish at 2000) or if he is luck he will get a early duty:) start at 0530 in garage and finish at 1600 city center.
The NBRU really had the the welfare of the new drivers as top priority when thay gave into EVERYTHING the management wanted.
Now thay shall pay the price, you cant draw a huge salary as a union leader if there is no one in your union.

liger

I was heading back to the garage tonight out of service. As i was passing a bus stop there were a few people there waiting. When they relised I was out of service one man started shaking his head. I thought to myself, you think your waiting long now, in two weeks you'll be lucky to even see the out of service bus.

How long before management come back and say they need to make more cuts? Will they wait for Decemeber and the Budget?? You know this isnt the end, they will come back for more.

dub_commuter

Cleopatra12 wrote: »

I heard this from a few drivers today in the my garage.... it was mentioned that there would be a big shift from one union to the other. Am very sketchy on details. Anyone got anymore info on this or why its going to happen?

Would that be the garage that you did not work in a few posts back when you said you were in head office staff.

Think someone has slipped up here......

As for the NBRU, their alleged family ties with DB wouldn't help them.....

shltter

puzzled wrote: »

cleo sorry.
The NBRU are finished. Only wanted to keep new drivers so they could get union fees each week. Did not care about the conditions they would have to work. Everyone disgusted with them.
Imagine a new driver living down the är$e end of the country commuting to dublin every day. Now he is going to have to work 13 hour split shifts (start 0700,break 1200-1600, finish at 2000) or if he is luck he will get a early duty:) start at 0530 in garage and finish at 1600 city center.
The NBRU really had the the welfare of the new drivers as top priority when thay gave into EVERYTHING the management wanted.
Now thay shall pay the price, you cant draw a huge salary as a union leader if there is no one in your union.

Sorry have to answer this


The union is the membership not the general or the president.

First of the relationship you suggested yesterday between the PR of DB and the general secetary of the NBRU is wrong.

Second you want to leave the NBRU and run to SIPTU you are making a huge mistake if you are not happy with the leadership of the NBRU then change it. Personally I would not be happy with the leadership displayed by some of the leadership in the NBRU but the leadership at garage level in certain garages was impeccable.

SIPTU is a hamstrung union just look at the position in the airport were on more than one occasion Liberty hall has over ruled the local branch and refused to endorse industrial action.

We can get rid of the dead wood in the NBRU and that process has already started in some of the garages but CIE workers cannot change the leadership of SIPTU.

At the end of the day the membership of both unions voted for this unfortunately

shltter

dub_commuter wrote: »

Would that be the garage that you did not work in a few posts back when you said you were in head office staff.

Think someone has slipped up here......

As for the NBRU, their alleged family ties with DB wouldn't help them.....

She actually said she was clerical in a depot not in head office AFAIR.

And that relationship that was alleged here is wrong thats not to say that the GS of the NBRU and the President are not a bit to pally with management for my liking but DB loves a conspiracy theory and the place is full of them.

Cleopatra12

shltter wrote: »

She actually said she was clerical in a depot not in head office AFAIR.quote]

Thank you shllter, you remembered quite rightly!

Personally know very little about the internal politics of the unions or about any unhappiness of the members of a particular union re thier performance in any of the talks with the comapny and LRC.

meanmachine3

Cleopatra12 wrote: »

I heard this from a few drivers today in the my garage.... it was mentioned that there would be a big shift from one union to the other. Am very sketchy on details. Anyone got anymore info on this or why its going to happen?

there are a number of reasons for this
(1)the N.B. voted for industrial/strike (all out at that) what they called were rolling strikes. one day then two etc. most menbers very extremely unhappy at this.
(2) strike pay. there is a huge difference between both unions when it comes to this.
(3) during certain ballots the N.B were instructing their members on which way to vote.
S.I.P. were leaving it up to the drivers themselves. their attitude being you read the doc and your old enough to make up your own mind. this was the same in all S.I.P. ballots over this issue. i remember one ballot where i was asked by an N.B. rep which way my union was instructing me to vote when i said they were leaving it up to us he went ballisitc and had a go at my rep.the following week another ballot was held, i asked the N.B. rep which way they were instructing their members to vote and he said they were leaving it up to their membership. just last thurs there were N.B notices all over the garages instructing their members to vote yes to accept the deal.
alot of drivers were extremely peeved at the way they were treated by the N.B. and said as soon as this was sorted they were going over to S.I.P.
my personal opinion is this " they are both the same and one is as bad as the other the only thing they're interested in is numbers ,nothing more and nothing less"

Cleopatra12

Thanks for that MM3, nice to be enlightened on this. Still think there will be a few interesting weeks ahead of us yet....

shltter

meanmachine3 wrote: »

there are a number of reasons for this
(1)the N.B. voted for industrial/strike (all out at that) what they called were rolling strikes. one day then two etc. most menbers very extremely unhappy at this.
(2) strike pay. there is a huge difference between both unions when it comes to this.
(3) during certain ballots the N.B were instructing their members on which way to vote.
S.I.P. were leaving it up to the drivers themselves. their attitude being you read the doc and your old enough to make up your own mind. this was the same in all S.I.P. ballots over this issue. i remember one ballot where i was asked by an N.B. rep which way my union was instructing me to vote when i said they were leaving it up to us he went ballisitc and had a go at my rep.the following week another ballot was held, i asked the N.B. rep which way they were instructing their members to vote and he said they were leaving it up to their membership. just last thurs there were N.B notices all over the garages instructing their members to vote yes to accept the deal.
alot of drivers were extremely peeved at the way they were treated by the N.B. and said as soon as this was sorted they were going over to S.I.P.
my personal opinion is this " they are both the same and one is as bad as the other the only thing they're interested in is numbers ,nothing more and nothing less"

http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0317/siptu.html

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/bus-chief-alleges-betrayal-on-strike-overruling-181088.html

People have short memories

SIPTU is not the answer.

shltter

Cleopatra12 wrote: »

Thanks for that MM3, nice to be enlightened on this. Still think there will be a few interesting weeks ahead of us yet....

Might even be disruptions in services yet.

Cleopatra12

shltter wrote: »

Might even be disruptions in services yet.

really? How so do you reckon that?

shltter

Cleopatra12 wrote: »

really? How so do you reckon that?

None of the new bills have been through the agreed procedures

If the company insist on introducing all of these bills this day week it is possible that there may be disruptions in some of all depots.

The company may argue that the labour court has given them the go ahead to bypass current agreements but that was not the attitude that the unions were taking.
I don't know how familiar you are with changing bills but it seems unlikely that agreement could be reached on that many bills in a week.

AlekSmart

None of the new bills have been through the agreed procedures

If the company insist on introducing all of these bills this day week it is possible that there may be disruptions in some of all depots.

Shltter is quite correct here,and no less a personage then Mr Gerry Maguire,HR Manager of Dublin Bus has confirmed as much in a letter to the Unions dated (Gulp) 1st April last.......:D

In this letter Mr Maguire confirmed that the company would be utilising the current agreed Schedules Negotation procedures Up to and Including the Schedules Tribunal.

So thefore realistically the company is in no position to impliment any more than a few minor withdrawals next Sunday.
The largest problems appear to exist at locations where some Senior Managers have decided to "Get stuck In" by insisting that the new bills are starting in toto on the 26th.

This is all perfectly well and good IF those schedules made any great sense in operational terms,however many of those posted are simply bizzarre and most certainly not designed to retain what little regular business there still is.

Surprisingly enough,it appears that some of the Senior Head Office team have belatedly realised that they are sitting on a large black ball with the word BOMB! writ large upon it,with the hissing sound explained by the lit fuse buring away beneath them.

Some elements of Head Office appear to be cognicent of the very slim majority for acceptance of this "Plan",it`s little better than 50/50 really,and are perhaps looking toward a graduated implimentation of the changes.

Some groups of Drivers have been working to devise Schedule and Route alterations in addition to new Rota arrangements which from what I`ve seen represent fine examples of positive thinking.

I would hope that Head Office can recognise the level of committment and hands-on knowledge which many Drivers can bring to this aspect in preference to much of the current Middle Management grouping which appears to spend inordinate amounts of time on many and various programmes,projects and other good works,expecially anything which involves "Healf n Safety"....:cool:

Of course I may be wrong....... Senior Management may well actually believe that they really DO know everything there is to know,having the benefit of surveys and what not....including,of course the latest large scale surveys carried out last week.......during School Holiday Week.......That thump u detect is my case resting.....:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

AlekSmart

Further indication of commonsense comes from the wording on Bus Atha Cliath`s website which refers to "the introduction of Service Changes which will COMMENCE on 26th April".

However,it`s still very possible to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory !!!

meanmachine3

Cleopatra12 wrote: »

Thanks for that MM3, nice to be enlightened on this. Still think there will be a few interesting weeks ahead of us yet....

i dont mind answering any questions that are put to me i was just cautious about your true nature on being here and most importantly your identity. your right about interesting weeks ahead.i'm just gonna sit back and wait till the **** hits the fan and it will big time. it'll all back fire on those that voted this thing in.

shltter wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0317/siptu.html

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/bus-chief-alleges-betrayal-on-strike-overruling-181088.html

People have short memories

SIPTU is not the answer.

shltter i'm fully aware of what went on then and am still peeved at it. as i said before as far i'm concerned both unions are the same "useless" but as you know it's compulsary for everyone to join a union when starting work for dublin bus. it's nothing more than a numbers game where both unions are concerned take from it someone that would know . at the moment it's all tit for tat. just read the latest notices that are up in the garages. the two of them are acting like a bunch of kids

shltter wrote: »

None of the new bills have been through the agreed procedures

If the company insist on introducing all of these bills this day week it is possible that there may be disruptions in some of all depots.

The company may argue that the labour court has given them the go ahead to bypass current agreements but that was not the attitude that the unions were taking.
I don't know how familiar you are with changing bills but it seems unlikely that agreement could be reached on that many bills in a week.

i am very much aware of the procedures when it comes to new schedules and if my union took the stance of letting any crap come in then i'd make damn sure there was a petition to get these guys out. heres something to ask your union reps for, local and national agreements. they exist but you'll be hard pressed to find them