Cork-Dublin Rail Service

Fnergg

Why is the train so slow?

This morning the 7:30am Cork train didn't arrive in Heuston until 10:40. "Speed restrictions" was the excuse.

Even at the best of times the train still takes nearly 3 hours in each direction.

Every other country seems to be developing high speed rail services to lure travellers away from their cars but in Ireland our new trains are travelling slower than the old ones.

Regards,

Fnergg

DWCommuter

Fnergg wrote: »

Why is the train so slow?

This morning the 7:30am Cork train didn't arrive in Heuston until 10:40. "Speed restrictions" was the excuse.

Even at the best of times the train still takes nearly 3 hours in each direction.

Every other country seems to be developing high speed rail services to lure travellers away from their cars but in Ireland our new trains are travelling slower than the old ones.

Regards,

Fnergg

The Inchicore lads are playing with their model railway again.

They're not there yet, but they're getti....ah forget it.

Chris_533976

THE BUS FROM GALWAY was going faster than the train between Mallow and Cork the other day. Honestly, we overtook it and it was one of the new ones too.

I really thought Mallow - Cork would be a reasonably fast run for the train. Dual tracked and looks fairly new.

flazio

Chris_533976 wrote: »

THE BUS FROM GALWAY was going faster than the train between Mallow and Cork the other day. Honestly, we overtook it and it was one of the new ones too.

I really thought Mallow - Cork would be a reasonably fast run for the train. Dual tracked and looks fairly new.

Where do buses from Galway drive anywhere near trains from Cork?
Anyway Dublin - Cork despite getting snazzy new carriages are still been driven by those Class 201s.

Gruffalo

flazio wrote: »

Where do buses from Galway drive anywhere near trains from Cork?

City link have a bus from Galway to Cork via Limerick. He said it was between Mallow and Cork.

Chris_533976

Cork - Dublin rail line goes via Charleville. The Cork-Galway bus parallels the whole of that part of the route.

Carawaystick

I'd say it'd be possible to drive from Cork to Dublin in less than 3 hours while staying below the speed limit. If not, it will by the end of May when the M8 will go from Watergrasshill to Cullahill

Blush_01

Staying within the speed limit, and staying behind a slow-moving truck part of the way, it takes 64 minutes to get from the Kildare town exit to the Cashel exit on the main road. Depending on where you are in Cork, and where in Dublin you want to go, you'd easily get to Cork in 3 hours or less.

The Dublin-Cork train is so frustrating. Crawling along between Heuston and Kildare is irritating, crawling through Ballybrophy is a joke (especially as the train steams through other stations)... and it's bloody expensive.

Fnergg

Carawaystick wrote: »

I'd say it'd be possible to drive from Cork to Dublin in less than 3 hours while staying below the speed limit. If not, it will by the end of May when the M8 will go from Watergrasshill to Cullahill

I drove from Newlands Cross to Cork city centre in 2 hours 15 mins recently. I kept to the speed limit too (well, mostly). I figure that when the Fermoy/Mitchelstown section opens in May it will be possible to do the journey in 2 hours in optimum conditions (i.e. if there are no hold ups in Abbeyleix).

Regards,

Fnergg

Stark

I remember being able to get a train from Dublin to Cork in 2 and a half hours a few years ago. Now it's always close to 3 hours. It's backwards we're going.

KC61

Fnergg wrote: »

Why is the train so slow?

This morning the 7:30am Cork train didn't arrive in Heuston until 10:40. "Speed restrictions" was the excuse.

Even at the best of times the train still takes nearly 3 hours in each direction.

Every other country seems to be developing high speed rail services to lure travellers away from their cars but in Ireland our new trains are travelling slower than the old ones.

Regards,

Fnergg

There has been a 75mph speed restriction imposed from Portlaoise to Newbridge in both directions since last week. While the trains are capable of 100mph+, the track is not. It has taken a lot of bashing from the 201 class locomotives, and a complete relaying is needed on the Cork route, but this seems to be moving backwards on the funding list.

This is I believe a permanent speed restriction which means it'll be around for some time to come while the permanent way gangers work on the track at night.

invincibleirish

Surely the KRP will speed up the journey time a bit? I've been on it a few times recently off peak and it was around 2:50. Beyond that will it not take some serious cash and work to reduce times?.

Davy

Stark wrote: »

I remember being able to get a train from Dublin to Cork in 2 and a half hours a few years ago. Now it's always close to 3 hours. It's backwards we're going.

That must have been a non-stop?,,, dont every remember apart from that, being that quick

kingshankly

Speed restrictions are there for our safety but unfortunatly can delay services. The line in question there is plenty of work being done so take for example new rails have been put in and are secured with plates there will probably be a 25 mph speed restriction in place until it can be welded, now take into account slowing down and getting back up to speed you can loose 5 or 6 minutes very easily and that is just one

KC61

Stark wrote: »

I remember being able to get a train from Dublin to Cork in 2 and a half hours a few years ago. Now it's always close to 3 hours. It's backwards we're going.

The reality is that the line has suffered from numerous temporary speed restrictions at various locations for one reason or another, be they crossovers that need renewing, half-barrier level crossings, and general track condition. This is what has slowed the service down.

To get back to the pre-1997 journey times would require that all of these temporary restrictions are lifted, and to be honest the whole line needs a complete relaying.

Some of the temporary restrictions, such as the 30mph restriction at Portarlington have already been removed, and Ballybrophy station trackwork was recently renewed. However, there is always a bedding-in period once trackwork is completed before the speed limits can be raised. The trackwork at Limerick Junction needs to be completely renewed - there is a 25mph restriction there.

All of these cost time, labour and cash - and these are not in plentiful supply given that the track teams are busy with Midleton, Pace, WRC and the KRP.

The KRP will deliver improved speeds at peak hours where express Intercity services are currently delayed by slower local services as they will now be on separate tracks.

Unfortunately I can't see many significant improvements in general journey times on the Cork route until the necessary renewal works are implemented, especially given a 20 mile stretch of 75 mph restricted track.

donvito99

What speed do ye think could be achieved if the entire Cork-Dublin route was renewed?

Stark

Dublin-Cork in 2 hours was the figure I've heard thrown around.

donvito99

Cool, and the current locos are capable of what, 125mph?

Stark

Yeah I've heard 200km/hr (125mph) is their rated speed.

FIRE

My normal travel route is Dublin - Cork.

2 Weeks ago I got the train and couldnt believe how slow it was going, until around newbridge, then it speeded up.

It took over 3 hours to get to cork. and €56.00

Now when I drive,and I mostly do a tank of petrol costs me €50.00 and sticking to the speed limit from Raheny in Dublin to Cork City centre takes me 2.45 to 3 hrs depending on conditions etc.

Then as for Ryanair, 30 or so mins flight, and just got a ticket for €19.00

So I think if the train is too slow, opt for an occasional flight.

Chris_533976

... and sit on the bus for 45 minutes trying to get into Dublin after you've fought to get through immigration even though youre a domestic passenger.

Car will win

road_high

I would have though this track was renewed in the 1990s along with almost all the track across the country.

This is what is going to happen when the Interurbans are finsihed...less and less people are going to spend up to 3 hours trundling along between Cork, Limerick, Waterford or Galway and pay through the nose for "convenience".

It will be left to pensioners with passes and those with more time and money than sense.
An express bus service between the centres could be a hammer blow to rail. Will be interesting to see what passanger numbers will be like in coming years and will they hold up?

invincibleirish

So anyway does anyone want to give a ballpark figure for electrification of the line and renewal/realignment where necessary?

FIRE

Chris_533976 wrote: »

... and sit on the bus for 45 minutes trying to get into Dublin after you've fought to get through immigration even though youre a domestic passenger.

Car will win

Well I use quickpark and am only 15mins from the Airport so it's grand for me.

murphaph

Irish Rail (for whatever reason, be it cash starvation or whatever) is a joke compared to Deutsche Bahn and any competent railway. They're relaying the line between Berlin and Hamburg (250,000 sleepers) in 3 and a half months to increase line speed. We bought flasy trains when we should have kept the 125mph capable MkIIIs in service and just spent the cash on the Cork line itself, brining it up to 200km/h and bought a few 200km/h capable locomotives to haul the sets. Germany still has some very old locomotives and coaching stock in service....because they build and maintain them properly, refitting rather than replacing. They then have cash to spend on infrastructure. The MkIIIs are as good as anything and are perfectly comfortable for what should be a sub 2 hour journey.

road_high

Yes indeed. No point having shiny new carriages and rolling stock only to have them trundling along at patheticly low speeds. They should have sorted the track first.

KC61

mfitzy wrote: »

I would have though this track was renewed in the 1990s along with almost all the track across the country.

The Cork line was relaid in the 1970s but has taken an absolute bashing from the 201 Class locos on the push/pull hourly Cork service.

The rest of the network (except for the branch lines which are currently being renewed in phases) was relaid and resignalled over the last 10 years.

Significant work is being done at night - but it is very very slow.

dowlingm

My recollection is that the 201s are rated to 100mph (160km/h) and the rolling stock to 125mph-200km/h. The 201s have been run faster than that for safety testing but they are heavy locos - a 200km/h train would likely have two driving cars to reduce the weight of each compared to the big 201 and the impact it has on trackage.

Carawaystick

Stark wrote: »

Dublin-Cork in 2 hours was the figure I've heard thrown around.

There's a sign near the pink link at the northern end of the Glanmire bypass saying Dublin 240ish km ( i think 241 but could be 243 or so, low 240's anyway)
It's about 15 km from Cork.
So <260km @ 120km/h is less than the two and a half hours average time to get there by train if there's an hourly 2hour service ( including the average half hour wait time til the train leaves.)
And this is CIE's best case for the train? with all the bells and whistles pulled out?

KC61

Carawaystick wrote: »

There's a sign near the pink link at the northern end of the Glanmire bypass saying Dublin 240ish km ( i think 241 but could be 243 or so, low 240's anyway)
It's about 15 km from Cork.
So <260km @ 120km/h is less than the two and a half hours average time to get there by train if there's an hourly 2hour service ( including the average half hour wait time til the train leaves.)
And this is CIE's best case for the train? with all the bells and whistles pulled out?

Dublin / Cork is 165.5 miles by rail.

kingshankly

In order for our trains to run at speeds people are suggesting the rail itself would need to be replaced probably a 60 kg would be needed