Belgian Beer

kc66

I know this is dragging up a kinda old thread, but just back from Belgium and missing it already. The beer is a different world from what we are offered here. And only around €3 for a Westmalle Tripel in a pub. Thinking of buying some from a UK website. Any restrictions on this?

oblivious

kc66 wrote: »

Any restrictions on this?

None really, but you might be hit by customs for the vat, but I have really not heard it happening much

BeerNut

kc66 wrote: »

Thinking of buying some from a UK website.

Buying from an Irish website is also an option.

kc66

BeerNut wrote: »

Buying from an Irish website is also an option.

Will do. Thanks.

Big Nasty

BeerNut wrote: »

Buying from an Irish website is also an option.

Pfft! Those prices are savage expensive!

BeerNut

Compared to..?

Big Nasty

BeerNut wrote: »

Compared to..?

Love Belgian Beer but you can get these beers from €3-€3.50 in any city Centre Belgian Bar so they cost way less to buy wholesale considering most pubs have at least 50% mark up on beer. You can get some of them in the UK for nearly half what you're charging and if you include shipping it's still way cheaper. Would buy from you regularly if your prices were reasonable.

BeerNut

MCMLXXV wrote: »

so they cost way less to buy wholesale considering most pubs have at least 50% mark up on beer.

I don't think DrinkStore buys them wholesale in Belgium. I think DrinkStore buys them wholesale from an Irish dealer, who buys them wholesale from a British dealer, who buys them wholesale in Belgium. And that's before you get into the differences in Belgian excise duty, sales tax and property overheads. Comparing the prices in a Dublin offy to those in downtown Brussels is nonsense. And the cost from brewery-to-you is still cheaper with DrinkStore.

Big Nasty

Where a supplier gets it from is not my concern. Paying €4.50 for a bottle of Rochefort 8 from an online off-licence is robbery IMO. I worked in Belgium for 3 years and I know well the mark up on drink is not great there due to the tax levels and most business' operate in 'black' to counter this, however I'm sure we would not have paid more than €1.50 for a bottle of Rochefort there. Now, when I came back to Ireland due to my interest in Belgian beers I introduced some to the pub I was working in. I have since left the bar trade and can't be sure of prices for individual products but I know for a fact that the minimum GP% on any of our products were at least 60% for retail pub sales. In fact I'm almost positive a case of Rochefort was in and around €40 ex VAT which would work out at about €2.00 per bottle, enabling me to sell it a €5.50 a bottle retail and still achieve our mark up. Your avearage off-licence however could have a GP% of less than 25% and still run a very profitable business as their are minimal staff costs, public liability, etc, etc. Now explain to me please how one can justify charging €4.50 for a bottle of Rochefort off-sale when one can buy it in a pub with double / triple the overheads for a euro more?

wobzilla

Let's all buy tickets to Brussels for €80, so we can save €2 on a bottle of beer.

BeerNut

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Where a supplier gets it from is not my concern.

If you're not interested in the real life supply chain then you're not in a position to complain about the real life prices being unfair. If you don't want to pay €4.50, don't pay €4.50. But making up alternative wholesale arrangements in your head isn't going to change anything.

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Paying €4.50 for a bottle of Rochefort 8 from an online off-licence is robbery IMO.

But they're not an online off-licence. They're a bricks-and-mortar off licence with a website.

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Your avearage off-licence however could have a GP% of less than 25% and still run a very profitable business as their are minimal staff costs, public liability, etc, etc. Now explain to me please how one can justify charging €4.50 for a bottle of Rochefort off-sale when one can buy it in a pub with double / triple the overheads for a euro more?

I'm not qualified to do that, lacking as I do a diploma from Backseat Business College, majoring in the theoretical licensed trade. I'm just a customer: all I'm bothered about is where the beer money in my pocket goes.

Big Nasty

BeerNut wrote: »

But they're not an online off-licence. They're a bricks-and-mortar off licence with a website.

Still don't have anything like the overheads of a pub.

I'm just a customer: all I'm bothered about is where the beer money in my pocket goes.

Same as that and I feel the prices on the aformentioned site are over-inflated, quite possibly due to the fact that they service a niche market and take advantage of those who appreciate good beer.

BeerNut

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Same as that and I feel the prices on the aformentioned site are over-inflated, quite possibly due to the fact that they service a niche market and take advantage of those who appreciate good beer.

Or quite possibly due to the wholesale price they're paying. I don't know, and neither do you. All we can reasonably do, to avoid sounding like trolls, is decide whether or not the price asked is what we're willing to pay for that beer on the day.

So, any leads on cheap Rochefort in Dublin?

DBCyc

Since the start of this thread, I have I have tried a lot of different Belgian Beers I have bought Rochefort 8 in about five different off-licences around Dublin and I have never paid any significant amount less than €4.50.

The niche market is served by several off-licences in Dublin, including DrinkStore. Unless they are all part of a cartel, I think we are paying a fair price so it sounds like the combination of distrubution costs and high excise on the high alcohol content of this beer puts the price where it is.

I don't remember how much that I have paid in a pub for one. Recently I remember a mate buying a bottle of Delrium Tremens in a pub which was around €7.50. DrinkStore sells these for €4.30 so that sounds like a fair price to me.

Big Nasty

BeerNut wrote: »

Or quite possibly due to the wholesale price they're paying. I don't know, and neither do you.

Actually I do, or I've a fair idea anyway what wholesale costs are. In fact if I go through my emails I'm sure I can find stock reports from my old boss that will tell me exactly how much we were paying wholesale per bottle in '07/'08. Without going to the bother I can certainly say that it was between E2-E2.50 a bottle for Rochefort and Westmalle Triple incl of VAT. so yeah, I still think E4.50 is a bit hefty in an off licence. But that's just my opinion.

BeerNut

MCMLXXV wrote: »

stock reports from my old boss that will tell me exactly how much we were paying wholesale per bottle in '07/'08.

Which is a very different thing to what I mentioned. I maintain: you don't know how much the beer is costing DrinkStore.

Big Nasty

BeerNut wrote: »

Which is a very different thing to what I mentioned. I maintain: you don't know how much the beer is costing DrinkStore.

You're 100% correct, I don't. I do know however that I could source it for less than 2.50 a bottle and I'm damn sure they can too.

Now can we move on please?

BeerNut

MCMLXXV wrote: »

I could source it for less than 2.50 a bottle

Could you really? Could you be a seller of cheaper Rochefort? Please?

Big Nasty

BeerNut wrote: »

Could you really? Could you be a seller of cheaper Rochefort? Please?

As my favourite Belgian beer I'm seriously contemplating having a look for the number of my supplier when I was in the business!

To be fair, looking at many of the other prices on their site they seem very fair, e.g.

Duvel 2.99
Orval 3.25
Westmalle Triple 3.60
Chimay Red 3.20

All very good prices, Chimay Blue a little hefty at 3.90, but again the first thing I looked at was the Rochefort 8 and thought wtf?

the beer revolu

MCMLXXV wrote: »

€40 ex VAT which would work out at about €2.00 per bottle,

In 2006 Rochfort 8 wholesaled @ €59.95 a case (ex VAT)
I don't imagine it has gotten much cheaper.

Big Nasty

the beer revolu wrote: »

In 2006 Rochfort 8 wholesaled @ €59.95 a case (ex VAT)
I don't imagine it has gotten much cheaper.

Which still works out at €2.49 a bottle, i.e. less than €2.50!

superdog

I am heading to Belgium at the end of the month. I am looking forward to renewing acquaintances with their fine beers.

D-Generate

I think we are all missing the true hero of Belgian Beer. Ladies and Gentleman I introduce to you Jupiler! Sure it ain't made by trappists monks but if every pub in Ireland replaced their Fosters/Miller/etc taps for a Jupiler tap I would die a happy, inebriated man with a good amount of change still left in my pocket.

Big Nasty

D-Generate wrote: »

I think we are all missing the true hero of Belgian Beer. Ladies and Gentleman I introduce to you Jupiler! Sure it ain't made by trappists monks but if every pub in Ireland replaced their Fosters/Miller/etc taps for a Jupiler tap I would die a happy, inebriated man with a good amount of change still left in my pocket.

It's worse than Dutch dude! :rolleyes:

the beer revolu

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Which still works out at €2.49 a bottle, i.e. less than €2.50!

Lets do the sums, properly!;)

€4.50 selling price minus the 21.5% VAT leaves us with €3.53 going to the seller.

that's €0.97 profit (bought for €2.50)

now divide that by €3.53 (selling price)
and that gives a profit margin of 27.5%

Admittedly, a little high but not much and you can expect a premium, expensive product with limited sales to have a slightly higher margin.

If you want cheaper, move to a country with lower duty and a widespread appreciation and market for fine beer.

PS your buying it at €2 a bottle and selling it at €5.50 was only giving a margin of 54%, not over 60% and I seriously doubt that you were getting it for €2 a bottle!

BeerNut

the beer revolu wrote: »

€4.50 selling price minus the 21.5% VAT leaves us with €3.53 going to the seller.

I'd say they do actually pay excise duty as well

the beer revolu

BeerNut wrote: »

I'd say they do actually pay excise duty as well

The duty would have been included in the wholesale price.
(It always usually is)

Big Nasty

the beer revolu wrote: »

Lets do the sums, properly!;)

€4.50 selling price minus the 21.5% VAT leaves us with €3.53 going to the seller.

that's €0.97 profit

now divide that by €3.53 (selling price)
and that gives us a profit margin of 27.5%

Admittedly, a little high but not much and you can expect a premium, expensive product with limited sales to have a slightly higher margin.

If you want cheaper, move to a country with lower duty and a widespread appreciation and market for fine beer.

PS your buying it at €2 a bottle and selling it at €5.50 was only giving a margin of 54%, not over 60% and I seriously doubt that you were getting it for €2 a bottle!

I'm defeated on this one lads, again the rest of the prices are very reasonable but knowing I sold Roch 8 at €5.50 and made good profit on it led to alarm bells going off in my head. I actually stocked Duvel, Westmalle and Roch 8 among others and from reviewing stock reports I see the bossman had them all leveled out to an average wholesale price (€2.12 per bottle ex VAT). Silly, you may say but this is common practice, e.g. Paddy, Powers and Jameson all have varying costs however they are traditionally sold at the same price so it is common practice to take the mean purchase price for all three and work from there. Same thing works for similarly priced bottled beers / pints, etc.

DrinkstoreKen

Hi , First time posting in this Forum.
Here to defend meself so to speak although others above have maybe explained ,
Niche and interesting beers are expensive in Ireland no doubt about that one, but in our defense it is a difficult market to work in and comparisons in price made with other EU countries are unrealistic given our excise duty and VAT rates and the size of the Irish market. Scales of economy apply, and I would love to be able to buy in larger quantities in order to avail of lower cost prices, but the market dictates that I can only buy by the case not the pallet.
I'll be quite open and honest we try to make approx. 25-30 % on most of the niche beers we carry. We are a small Irish, family owned business and there is alot of work that goes in to stocking and sourcing over 200 different types of beer some of which you may have to store for upwards of six months before you need to re-order and each one off those products has to pay it's 'rent' so to speak. This is not the FMCG sector that big brands move in where products go direct to market , alot our products are from small niche producers who work in small markets with local wholesalers and often have been through several sets of hands before they reach our shores with each one taking their own 'slice' .
We / I have a passion for good beer and most of our customers are of the same ilk. I would love to see the average Irish consumer wake up to what real beer is and stop buying the macro-swill that they are brain washed into drinking.
Spread the word tell your friends to try some craft beer,or some craft IRISH beer, and hopefully in the future scales of economy will apply and prices will fall.
In the meantime we are there for those who can't find good beer in their local area.


P.S. just to say also, prices will go down a notch in the new year as we whittle our way through our duty paid stock, and re-stock with new product at the new excise duty and VAT rates.

Mr Magnolia

Ken, thanks for taking the time to reply. Please take a read of the rules that were sent to you when you registered your account. Advertising of any sort isn't permitted on the forums. I'm leaving your above post on the board as you've been frank, open and honest but don't link your store in any further posts please.

You can contact hello@boards.ie for details on appropriate advertising here.

Edit/ I see you've removed the link. Thanks.

ciaran76

Another beer I found nice in Belgium is Grimbergen.(Anyone else had it?)

I usually drink this when I am over there and great straight from the tap. Not had it from a bottle so not sure if the same taste.

BeerNut

Yeah, it's OK. It was Scottish & Newcastle's foothold in Belgium and went to Carlsberg in the carve-up.

Big Nasty

ciaran76 wrote: »

Another beer I found nice in Belgium is Grimbergen.(Anyone else had it?)

I usually drink this when I am over there and great straight from the tap. Not had it from a bottle so not sure if the same taste.

The Grim Triple's not bad but wouldn't be on my favourite list.

Rowley Birkin QC

Anyone know where to get Maredsous in Dublin?

The pub I work in here (Amsterdam) got a promotional crate in and if I'm honest I'd have to say I drank most of it! Bought 4 bottles in the off license for €1.10 a piece when the pub stock ran out and it's killing me to think of the price I will be paying for it if I can manage to locate it back home in a few weeks.

BeerNut

Most of the decent beer of licences have it: Deveney's, Redmond's, DrinkStore and the like. The Bull & Castle sells at least some of the range too.

wobzilla

Cooney's in Drogheda supply it to me. They're part of the Gleeson group. I don't remember if they have all of them but I've definetely gotten number 10 off them

thelynchfella

sweeneys in phibsboro defo have some of the maredsous range!!

ciaran76

Drinking a Maredsous triple 10° now and really nice. 1st time having this.

shanel23

ciaran76 wrote: »

Another beer I found nice in Belgium is Grimbergen.(Anyone else had it?)

I usually drink this when I am over there and great straight from the tap. Not had it from a bottle so not sure if the same taste.

Was over in Belgium last week and had a few of the Grimbergen blonde from the tap and loved it - brought a few bottles home ( and the glass ) and for me it was as good -

Anybody know if you can get it here in Ireland ?

BeerNut

shanel23 wrote: »

Anybody know if you can get it here in Ireland ?

Yeah, I'm fairly sure I've seen it from time to time.

oblivious

I think Redmond might have the Grimbergen gift pack with glass