Child Allowance up next...

Offy

Let me put this issue in perspective for everyone. I work and I claim a pension and child benefit. I pay taxes at 41%. It cost me money to work, for childminders, taxies to get the kids to school and back, etc. I pay the government over €1.5k every month. I benefit from working by slightly over €150 per week. If I lose child benefit Im up about €75 per month for working full time. Thats not enough motivation for me to get up at six every morning to work five days a week.
If I lose child benefit I will quit my job and live of my pension. The government will lose out on €1.5k every month because they stopped paying out €0.5k every month. They will have to pay out the €0.5k every month plus 50% of jobseekers benifit for a single parent with three kids (about €6-700 per month). This is not a scam, I am legally entitled to both forms of social welfare. The rent for the council house I live in will drop to about 1/4 of what it is now. I will claim a medical card and I will retain child benifit. The childminder I employ will lose out on €600 per month as will the taxi firm I use to get my kids to and from school.
This move by the government could drive the country even deeper into debt. They need to stop targeting mid earners or they will just add to the unemployed figures. Add all that up and then tell me that taking child benifit away is a good thing.

dresden8

Taxis to school?

Serenity Now!

Offy wrote: »

Let me put this issue in perspective for everyone. I work and I claim a pension and child benefit. I pay taxes at 41%. It cost me money to work, for childminders, taxies to get the kids to school and back, etc. I pay the government over €1.5k every month. I benefit from working by slightly over €150 per week. If I lose child benefit Im up about €75 per month for working full time. Thats not enough motivation for me to get up at six every morning to work five days a week.
If I lose child benefit I will quit my job and live of my pension. The government will lose out on €1.5k every month because they stopped paying out €0.5k every month. They will have to pay out the €0.5k every month plus 50% of jobseekers benifit for a single parent with three kids (about €6-700 per month). This is not a scam, I am legally entitled to both forms of social welfare. The rent for the council house I live in will drop to about 1/4 of what it is now. I will claim a medical card and I will retain child benifit. The childminder I employ will lose out on €600 per month as will the taxi firm I use to get my kids to and from school.
This move by the government could drive the country even deeper into debt. They need to stop targeting mid earners or they will just add to the unemployed figures. Add all that up and then tell me that taking child benifit away is a good thing.

Are you a single parent? Read what is being proposed then. Total income level per household being weighed up against qualification for Child Allowance. Obviously a single parent wouldn't be affected unless they earned high enough to the equivalent of the double-earning families claiming.

If you're not a single parent, then this post of yours is either extremely satirical or hypocritical.

icanchange49

sparklepants wrote: »

I agree that this reform is long overdue. In fact I find the concept of a children's allowance quite archaic. I think it should be abolished and replaced with a tax-free allowance on lower incomes and a supplement to social welfare payments. In that way you could also remove the cost of administering the existing scheme.

So how much more social welfare payment do you want to make? It already accounts for up to 40% of national spend!

dresden8

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Are you a single parent? Read what is being proposed then. Total income level per household being weighed up against qualification for Child Allowance. Obviously a single parent wouldn't be affected unless they earned high enough to the equivalent of the double-earning families claiming.

If you're not a single parent, then this post of yours is either extremely satirical or hypocritical.

Slow down there big guy. A lot of people have built this, and other money, into their budgets.

Yes, they were foolish, they shouldn't have taken out the big mortgage, the big credit card loans, the car loan and whatever else.

But..... they were encouraged by the government who told all the naysayers to fnck off and kill themselves. The "structural deficit" isn't only on a national basis, a huge amount of it is on a personal basis.

Maybe they were stupid to trust the government but a lot of chickens will have to come home to roost before this is finished. At the moment only the PAYE stiff, private or public sector, is facing up to the realities.

Serenity Now!

Offy wrote: »

Bleeding the system? Are they not the people that feed the system with income tax, PRSI and 2% tax levy? How much tax is deducted from an income of €90k? How is that bleeding the system? Thats exactly what the system needs. You would punish those that work and by doing so this would help the system?????
One of the principles of motivation used in management is:
Effort equals reward.
If theres no reward then why put in any effort? If you take away the benefits then those that just scrape into the 42% tax bracket will start to think 'why should I not sign on and play golf every day? I wouldnt have to pay childminders, rent/mortgage, doctors fees, etc. I could get the state to pay my way'.
Probably not the best direction to take.

Yes, bleeding the system. Claiming 'free money'. People will take all they can on the basis of some dumb moral relativism saying its because they contribute on "so many other levels" :rolleyes:
Why not just take it even further and claim rent allowance while they're at it?
If your household earns a good salary the State owes you nearly €2000 (for each child) just because you have children? lol
If this is what is costs to keep you interested in working then all I can say is 'ffs'.

dresden8

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Yes, bleeding the system. Claiming 'free money'. People will take all they can on the basis of some dumb moral relativism saying its because they contribute on "so many other levels" :rolleyes:

Very much so, the ordinary working idiot contributes a lot more than they claim.

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Why not just take it even further and claim rent allowance while they're at it?

Can't, working idiot.

Serenity Now! wrote: »

If your household earns a good salary the State owes you nearly €2000 (for each child) just because you have children? lol

And there's me thinking the state cherished children, and recognised their importance, and contributed to their well-being. What kind of tosser am I?

Serenity Now! wrote: »

If this is what is costs to keep you interested in working then all I can say is 'ffs'.

Interest in working is worth fnck all. It's all about the money you clear at the end of the day. Economic activity is all about the money. Do you not watch "The Apprentice"?

dresden8

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Yes, bleeding the system. Claiming 'free money'. People will take all they can on the basis of some dumb moral relativism saying its because they contribute on "so many other levels" :rolleyes:

Oh, and on the "free money" issue, only those on social welfare (barring those recently made unemployed and have contributed in the recent past) will get the "free money" you so rail against. Those who contributed and feel some some sort of "dumb moral relativism" will get truly shafted.

Screw those workers, who the hell do they think they are with their "dumb moral relativism". Parasite scum!

K-9

OK, so everybody takes a hit of say, €50 per child?

dresden8

K-9 wrote: »

OK, so everybody takes a hit of say, €50 per child?

Something like that would, at least be "fair".

"Fair" is a very subjective term that you would hope a competent government would strive towards.

blast05

Serenity Now - from reading this thread and others .... i think it is becoming clear what type of economic model you would like in this country ..... eastern Europe of 30-40 years ago springs to mind. Correct me if i am wrong.

Stopping childrens allowance to all parents on combined incomes of over 72K (~current level a jointly assessed couple would pay 41%) will see a massive drop in mothers with kids participating in the workforce cos it simply will not be worth it.
The painful thing is this bloody government will go full steam ahead and do it.
In my situation - 3 young kids - my wife has cut back to a 3 day week cos of obvious challenge of rearing 3 young kids. However, if we also lose the childrens allowance then i'm not sure if it will be worth her while working ....

K-9

dresden8 wrote: »

Something like that would, at least be "fair".

"Fair" is a very subjective term that you would hope a competent government would strive towards.

Even though it hits the "working class" more?

Really, some class is going to be hit, why hit the "working class" and people on SW more?

dresden8

K-9 wrote: »

Even though it hits the "working class" more?

Really, some class is going to be hit, why hit the "working class" and people on SW more?

Easy targets?

The usuals?

Rich people's income is "systemic" or some such other sh1te.

The poor must pay, even better if it's the working poor, mwuhaaaaa haaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Or is that just how things normally work out?

K-9

dresden8 wrote: »

Easy targets?

The usuals?

Rich people's income is "systemic" or some such other sh1te.

The poor must pay, even better if it's the working poor, mwuhaaaaa haaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Or is that just how things normally work out?

yep, don't forget levy the middle classes and bail out the bankers. Damn it, that swear word filter is too damn good!

Serenity Now!

blast05 wrote: »

Serenity Now - from reading this thread and others .... i think it is becoming clear what type of economic model you would like in this country ..... eastern Europe of 30-40 years ago springs to mind. Correct me if i am wrong

Yes, you are very wrong. Take two countries famous for their fair and generous social welfare systems: Norway & Australia. Child benefit is means tested (strictly) in both these countries.

blast05

Yes, you are very wrong. Take two countries famous for their fair and generous social welfare systems: Norway & Australia. Child benefit is means tested (strictly) in both these countries.

Fair enough .... but i strongly feel that unless our government is careful then the massively increased tax hike on PAYE middle earners will have huge negative impact on the economy.
I am in that category and if i lose the childrens allowance and am hit with the property tax on luxury items (as per other thread) plus enevitable higher taxes - then i will be looking for a contract abroad for a few years.

gurramok

blast05 wrote: »

Fair enough .... but i strongly feel that unless our government is careful then the massively increased tax hike on PAYE middle earners will have huge negative impact on the economy.
I am in that category and if i lose the childrens allowance and am hit with the property tax on luxury items (as per other thread) plus enevitable higher taxes - then i will be looking for a contract abroad for a few years.

So?

Then, sacrifice those luxury items so you can have still a comfy lifestyle.

There are many people out there less fortunate who are struggling on the breadline and people who have a comfy lifestyle are well within their means to have child benefit means tested.

blast05

gurramok wrote: »

So?

Then, sacrifice those luxury items so you can have still a comfy lifestyle.

There are many people out there less fortunate who are struggling on the breadline and people who have a comfy lifestyle are well within their means to have child benefit means tested.

No, i won't - i'd sooner live in a Scandic country and pay 10% more of my gross salary in tax and have the associated public services rather than see my money being pissed away here. And based on my income, it looks like i will be asked to pay an excessive amount of tax on my savings which is now in the form of a luxury item.
Would i have to pay a government tax if i bought gold bars instead - of course not.

gurramok

Savings - you mean DIRT tax yes?

Think of it for a moment. If they reduced child benefit via means testing, won't that make up for not putting up DIRT tax in the first place? (a balancing act)