Are Nigerians really that bad

biko

Sorry but I thought mugu meant white guy, like oyinbo?

Wiki: "Mugu" means "fool" and is often used as an insult by scam-baiters referring back to the scammer.

Thanks for correcting me.

lmtduffy

JonathanAnon wrote: »

Well considering that such a large number of the Asylum seekers are really just economic migrants or whatever the term used was, would it not be clever to cherry pick the best of the applicants? For two reasons.

a) if a person is qualified they will be able to contribute to somewhere needed, possible health etc etc
b) There is a higher possibility that highly qualified people will be movitaved to work and will not sit on the dole like many currently do.

The people who show that they have an ability to contribute should be given access. We have enough people coming here just for the ridiculously generous dole.

asylum seekers receive €19.10 a week thats not really generous is it?

lmtduffy

Killaqueen!!! wrote: »

I could go on about other cases but I realise this post is getting pretty long. Really, I think one of the main issues with Nigerians in Ireland, is that they don't integrate well with the nationals. I mean, if you take Polish, Slovakian etc. immigrants, I've had nothing but pleasant experiences with them. Most of them are working amongst nationals, even marrying into Irish families and settling down over here, wheras I don't know any Irish friends with a Nigerian boyfriend/girlfriend.

I would love Ireland to become more ethnically diverse and definitely more accepting of other races. But it's difficult when many Nigerians here are uneducated, unemployed and refuse to integrate with the nationals. I have found that eastern Europeans seem to make much more of an effort than Nigerians, even just with learning the language, but again that is just my limited personal experience.

I hope I haven't offended anyone here - trust me I'm not a racist!!!

I think you will find the current regime for the "care" and supervision of asylum seekers is designed to stop them from integrating, does not allow them to contribute by working, doesn't allow them to better themselves through education and reluctantly offers them language courses.

where as the eastern Europeans have protections from Europe, are allowed to work and have access to education, is it possible your problem may lie with the asylum system rather than the asylum seekers?

lmtduffy

donegalfella wrote: »

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so its the responsibility of Nigerians to police other Nigerians if they expect to be treated fairly?

procure11

The main reason why this topic was posted was to sensitize members that not all Nigerians are evil and bad but I have noticed it is degenerating into very negative arguements,If you noticed from my original post I agreed that some Nigerians in Ireland have exhibited behaviors that are very unbecoming but like I said this is largely due to the fact that most nigerians here in Ireland are resident via asylum claims unlike for example in the US or Uk where most Nigerians come to study and are incentivised to stay due to their qualifications and as such would be in a position to contribute more meaningfully to their societies than Ireland.

My arguement is that Ireland should learn from its Neighbor ( the UK) in two ways

1. They should realise they have some Immigrants in Ireland that do not fit in into their way of life and customs and should make conscientious efforts to integrate them with political wisdom( so they dont end up like the Pakistanis,Indians and Bangladeshis in the Uk that would not Integrate because they feel they were "persecuted" when they came in the country).The truth of the matter is that a lot of them sought asylum but made sure their kids went to school resulting into them having kids that turned out to be doctors,nurses and other professionals.A recent survey suggested if the Doctors who were not traditionally English in the Nhs in the Uk were let go,it would collapse in days.That survey would no have been needed if there was not a sense of belonging and integration.

2.Secondly ,to avoid the Mistakes of France ,Uk etc Ireland has to be very proactive in its Immigration policies to make sure that they only allow those that they need and give refuge to those who honestly deserve it.The Uk has been swallowed by the politically correct machine of the left and not surprisingly because of its proximity(not only geographically but idealistically) Ireland is falling into the same trap.The process of asylum ,work permits etc is very cumbersome,complicated , lacks clarity and most importantly resembles that of the Uk(I hardly see any original policy from the Irish Immigration)its always a copy of the UKs.

I have also read some posts suggesting certain behavioral patterns among Nigerians(eg 419 ,Scams etc),while I concur that this is true ,it is not just representative of Nigerians alone,corruption is an inherent human behavior that is manisfested irrespective of nationality for eg exposure of TDs salaries and allownaces,MEPs salaries and allowances,US blackwater in Iraq etc is testament to this fact.Lets just understand and appreciate each other ..thats all

af_thefragile

^Totally agree with you!

We here in Ireland look upto UK a lot and end up following what it is doing. Its about time we need to realise UK is not a good example to follow!

Also many Indians and Pakistanis in UK went there initially around the time when the Brits pulled out of India and so seems like they kinda felt it was their moral obligation to go to UK and live there after the Brits had invaded their land and leeched it for more than 400 years. And then the mid 20th century racism of the English didn't help with the integration of the societies too.

Anyway, Ireland didn't invade any country that i know of and so i doubt we're dealing with the same thing here as the Brits did.
I do believe Ireland needs to be a more integrated society but thats gonna be tough cuz i've seen many Irish in general don't like to integrate much with people not like them. So anyone who doesn't live by the "Irish culture" in here usually gets left out.

And finally being a libertarian i believe everyone should be seen as an individual rather than a Brit, Pakistani, Nigerian, Polish etc. It shouldn't matter what a person's nationality, race or general background is. Even one should be looked as an individual. And so we shouldn't have any laws against "nigerian immigrants" or "polish immigrants". When someone applies for an asylum, we should investigate him in isolation instead of stamping up prejudices "oh, this guy is from Nigeria so he's probably full of ****!", none of that kinda stuff.

live2thewire

No.

professore

EF wrote: »

The big problem in Nigeria from what I have read in reports on the country and heard from other Nigerians is crime, corruption and ethnic and religious clashes.

They must feel right at home here in that case !

djpbarry

I'm amazed by the number of posters on this thread who apparently have the ability to determine an individual's nationality simply by looking at them. Quite remarkable really.

Babooshka

af_thefragile wrote: »

^
I do believe Ireland needs to be a more integrated society but thats gonna be tough cuz i've seen many Irish in general don't like to integrate much with people not like them. So anyone who doesn't live by the "Irish culture" in here usually gets left out.

I completely disagree with you there. Yes there are the usual scumbuckets who throw around the odd racist comments down the back of the bus now and again but in general Irish people bend over backwards to integrate any decent normal folk who are also willing to integrate.

We have a plethora of Polish shops, Halaal meatstores, Russian and Czech bars. Have you ever seen a Polish supermarket in Spain or Italy? Not really. For the most part their supermarkets and shops remain, for the most part Spanish and Italian. Have you seen any Irish Supermarkets in Poland? There's plenty of integration going on here, is all I am saying, no one's been left out or treated any worse than anyone else except by the scumbags who treat everyone with disdain, they don't discrimnate who they're horrible to in fairness.

Dannyboy83

LOL@the idealists.

One month on the door of any nightclub in Cork or Dublin and you will understand why Nigerians and Travellers have earned the reputation which follows them.

p.s. I've found people from Ghana to be really nice and friendly, so if you think a Nigerian is reasonable, he is probably actually from Ghana.

af_thefragile

Babooshka wrote: »

I completely disagree with you there. Yes there are the usual scumbuckets who throw around the odd racist comments down the back of the bus now and again but in general Irish people bend over backwards to integrate any decent normal folk who are also willing to integrate.

We have a plethora of Polish shops, Halaal meatstores, Russian and Czech bars. Have you ever seen a Polish supermarket in Spain or Italy? Not really. For the most part their supermarkets and shops remain, for the most part Spanish and Italian. Have you seen any Irish Supermarkets in Poland? There's plenty of integration going on here, is all I am saying, no one's been left out or treated any worse than anyone else except by the scumbags who treat everyone with disdain, they don't discrimnate who they're horrible to in fairness.

I was speaking more of a social integration than letting them open stores and such.
Sure we don't mind them opening a store or something. But what i was speaking about was what i've seen in colleges and such. Irish people generally like to stick to themselves and don't really integrate much with people from other places... Its probably mostly due to clash of cultures. So i won't say the Irish are fully to blame here.

cabinteelytom

Darragh29 wrote: »

OP... on one occasion, I was told I was a racist and was screamed and roared at in front of staff and other customers.

I ended up getting out of the business....

It's always a tough one that; what should you do in those circumstances? But today at the UN 'racism conference' we at last got some official guidance. Our ambassadour (see www.rte.ie today) demonstrated the correct behaviour-you walk out.
You don't reflect, 'Maybe there is a reasoned argument here that I should listen to'.
You don't consider,'Maybe I should keep an open mind on this issue.'
You don't sportingly debate, 'I'll let him have his say, and then I'll have mine. After all, there's two sides to every story.'
Accusations to you or your associates? You walk out; as modelled by our highest public servants.

djpbarry

Babooshka wrote: »

Yes there are the usual scumbuckets who throw around the odd racist comments down the back of the bus now and again but in general Irish people bend over backwards to integrate any decent normal folk who are also willing to integrate.

Unless of course they happen to be black, in which case they are lumped into the "Nigerian welfare-dependant refugee" bracket.

Babooshka

EDIT: deleted

Davidth88

You know when I first moved here in 2001 I was pretty shocked by the level of racisim, it was at a similar level I remember from the early 80's in the UK ( in my middle class experience ). I heard people openly using the words like ******/Wog which I hadn't heard for years in England .

It seems different now , but again I am in a pretty sheltered middle class enviroment.

I did wonder , how could Ireland have any Asylum Seekers ? My understanding was that you had to declare asylum at your first country of arrival. Ireland as far as I understood never had direct flights from Nigeria etc , so where were these people coming from ? Then you heard the stories of people arriving 9.5 months pregnant ( rhetorically speaking ) because of the automatic right to Irish Citizenship ( now closed I think ) , I think this didn't help peoples causes.

It was obviously the usual thing of a few ' bad apples ' giving everyone a bad name .

I applaud the OP for his ( ? ) posts , they are balanced and interesting .

Permabear

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djpbarry

Davidth88 wrote: »

I did wonder , how could Ireland have any Asylum Seekers ?

I would think it quite odd if Ireland did not have any asylum seekers.

Davidth88 wrote: »

My understanding was that you had to declare asylum at your first country of arrival.

Nope – I’m not sure how this myth started, but think about it; if this were true, it would pretty much preclude Ireland from the asylum process. Why would the other EU states agree to such a thing?

Davidth88

Òk thanks for the clarification


I stand corrected .....

O'Coonassa

donegalfella wrote: »

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Trying to gain legal residency in Europe by giving birth in Ireland. That was the true nature of the backdoor. The referedum was called because of the EU leaning on us AFAIK.

There's absolutely millions of Irish all around the world detracting from or contributing to the societies they live in. It'd absolutely serve us right if they and their children were all turfed out and sent home.

Permabear

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O'Coonassa

donegalfella wrote: »

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They aren't illegal, we were quare lucky to be born with the auld pale hide. In fact I think that's what saved us as a nation, only for it we'd have been let go down like the Africans have.

Permabear

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O'Coonassa

donegalfella wrote: »

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I'm not suggesting that it would be at all likely to happen. I'm just saying that it would be a type of poetic justice if it did happen.

donegalfella wrote: »

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Western racism based on skin colour. Although we were the victims of racism in nearly every place we went to, what ameliorated it effects was the colour of our skin.

Serenity Now!

Babooshka wrote: »

I completely disagree with you there. Yes there are the usual scumbuckets who throw around the odd racist comments down the back of the bus now and again but in general Irish people bend over backwards to integrate any decent normal folk who are also willing to integrate

That generalism is about as valid as saying Nigerians/Blacks/Whoever are [insert adjective].

Babooshka

Genaralisms derive from a whole lot of individuals' experiences and are not the same as myths. They do not apply to all however they do apply to a lot. This country is only adjusting to a high influx of immigrants and like all countries before it, it will take time for people to integrate.

And to point out that someone is using a "generalism" is, to me, a bit of a waste of time. Generalisms exist because they are general, i.e. common occurences. My point and my experience of this is as valid as anyone elses. Perhaps it came accross or was communicated as vague but it's what I've experienced. Go live in Ballyfermot and then whine about generalisms. I've lived among "generalisms" for 30 years and to the main of my experience the stereotype exists. Politically incorrect to refer to it as it may be.

maninasia

I congratulate the OP on his well reasoned arguments, especially in regards to not following the mistakes that the UK has made. Nigerians bring a lot of this reputation on themselves by their belligerent in your face attitude which doesn't go down well anywhere especially Ireland. Contrast this with the Chinese or other ethnic groups some of whom came here illegally, they just go about their business quietly without making a big fuss.

I have met Nigerians in Asia who straight faced claimed to be from Ohio, USA and another in Ireland that claimed to be from Trinidad and Tobago Then I have met others who told me privately that they were discriminated against by their own people (from Biafra). I met one who worked in Cork for 3 years, enjoyed it and left voluntarily to work somewhere else. All had different personalities and values and they were all individuals. As he stated it is a big and complex country.

The asylum policy is deeply flawed and this has exacerbated the whole problem, previously leaving it open to large amounts of scammers and economic migrants. This has a bad effect in denying genuine asylum seekers refuge in Ireland. Our asylum process should be obviously be aimed at refugees from war-torn countries of which there are many - Palestine, Afghanistan, Iraq, Congo, Sudan, Somalia.....

Now that the situation is like it is the government needs to accept our new citizens, especially in order for their kids to fully ntegrate them into society.

djpbarry

maninasia wrote: »

Nigerians bring a lot of this reputation on themselves by their belligerent in your face attitude which doesn't go down well anywhere especially Ireland.
…
All had different personalities and values and they were all individuals. As he stated it is a big and complex country.

Spot the contradiction.

maninasia wrote: »

I have met Nigerians in Asia who straight faced claimed to be from Ohio, USA and another in Ireland that claimed to be from Trinidad and Tobago

How do you know they were Nigerian? And why does it matter?

maninasia wrote: »

The asylum policy is deeply flawed and this has exacerbated the whole problem, previously leaving it open to large amounts of scammers and economic migrants.

How so?

maninasia

Look, I'm trying to be nice to the image of Nigerians, do you want me to mention about the time I went to the passport office and I had two Nigerian ladies standing in front of me screaming at the staff to 'give them their passports' (pre 2004) with their babies in the buggy beside them. I didn't want to but since you insisted... Let me say once again though I have met many polite and well mannered Nigerians.

I knew the taxi driver was Nigerian by his accent and looks, which is very very different than somebody from the Caribbean (Trinidad and Tobago English is COMPLETELY different) the other guys I played football with regularly were part of a Nigerian team. Nigerians are quite easy to spot from other Africans...quite a distinctive accent. Lying comes easy to many of them because that's the way their culture is (in many culture lying is not considered a big deal, it's the same in Asia for example before you get yourself whipped up into moral outrage!). The other reason, as the OP pointed out, is that the migrants in many cases have to lie to get what into other countries as visa rules are so restrictive, therefore it further selects for this group of people out of the whole population.
In comparison to Nigerians (generalisation) most Africans are low key and a huge amount don't speak English (rather French), West Africans are built and look very different than East Africans. Finally Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa. It's not rocket science!

The system is flawed because it allowed Nigerians and others to migrate under 'asylum rules' , while asylum should be given to war-torn country refugees, of which there are MILLIONS worldwide who live in desperate conditions. It has tightened up now of course.

lmtduffy

maninasia wrote: »

Look, I'm trying to be nice to the image of Nigerians, do you want me to mention about the time I went to the passport office and I had two Nigerian ladies standing in front of me screaming at the staff to 'give them their passports' (pre 2004) with their babies in the buggy beside them. I didn't want to but since you insisted... Let me say once again though I have met many polite and well mannered Nigerians.

I knew the taxi driver was Nigerian by his accent and looks, which is very very different than somebody from the Caribbean (Trinidad and Tobago English is COMPLETELY different) the other guys I played football with regularly were part of a Nigerian team. Nigerians are quite easy to spot from other Africans...quite a distinctive accent. In comparison most Africans are low key and a huge amount don't speak English (rather French), West Africans are built and look very different than East Africans. Finally Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa. It's not rocket science!

The system is flawed because it allowed Nigerians and others to migrate under 'asylum rules' , while asylum should be given to war-torn country refugees, of which there are MILLIONS worldwide who live in desperate conditions. It has tightened up now of course.

what are "asylum rules"?