Garda Regional Support Units -Success??

cork1

ste88m your on the money there! i cant imagine it now. two armed robbers run out of a bank and our armed unit are fubbling around trying to get elbow pads on. they need one uniform and it needs to be simpified. from what they were wearing on the paper theres just too many bits and pieces

deadwood

maglite wrote: »

Are the doors armored in the car?

Yeah, but don't forget to roll up the window!

ste88m

I can't see it happening myself because of the much favoured 'soft & approachable look', pity, as it would really make a difference in my opinion..

If they were to go around like this all the time, they would be a real deterrent.


This is how the Greater Manchester Police ARV teams & Airport Police units patrol.


I think it shows they mean business, and that you know whats coming for you if you don't do what they say!

deadwood

ste88m wrote: »

This is how the Greater Manchester Police ARV teams & Airport Police units patrol.

Yeah, but with the current economic climate the way it is, us guards would be expected to use regular footpaths.

cork1

ya that would be better and id say it would be easier to work in too. maybe give them a helmet for entering buildings and a pair of leather gloves. thats all they need. no shin gaurds, knee pads or elbow pads!

cork1

deadwood wrote: »

Yeah, but with the current economic climate the way it is, us guards would be expected to use regular footpaths.

ya they should issue ye scooters

donvito99

''New Garda Cars with new lights on roof''

Havn't garda cars always had lights on the roof?!

Poccington

cork1 wrote: »

you NEVER EVER EVER shoot at will! theres rules of engagement i presume as we have in defence forces. and even then if you feel the need for leathal force always ask for permission then when it goes to court and it will you cant be told you had no permission to fire. the way i see it is in ireland if a gaurd ever has to shoot someone be it the right or wrong move people will freak out and start moaning. then it will be a game of pass the buck and the odds are someone gets screwed. so you need to be damn sure thats not going to be you.

In the DF, you don't need to "Ask" permission to open fire.

cork1

in the pdf maybe maybe in the rdf too. but what i was told was you should always call it in so that when the **** hits the fan if there is people saying it was unjustified it cant all be pinned on one person. not saying this is right or wrong though because when it comes down to the guy with the gun makes the call

Poccington

cork1 wrote: »

in the pdf maybe maybe in the rdf too. but what i was told was you should always call it in so that when the **** hits the fan if there is people saying it was unjustified it cant all be pinned on one person. not saying this is right or wrong though because when it comes down to the guy with the gun makes the call

Well whoever told you that is very wrong. Considering you say you do Security details and Arned duties you should know exactly when you can open fire and you should know asking permission isn't part of it.

Lads on an aside, would the RSU's have their own command chain independent of the rank and file members back in the station or do they still operate under the same umbrella?

cork1

Poccington wrote: »

Well whoever told you that is very wrong. Considering you say you do Security details and Arned duties you should know exactly when you can open fire and you should know asking permission isn't part of it.

i havent done any of them yet as im a 2* but this is what we were learning on the 3* course i was just saying that i will be doing it. we were told about the rules of engagement and were told you can fire if the rules are broken but to be honest in my opinion i think they are very broad.

Turner

Both RSU threads merged.

Chief---

Murphy(Cork)

cork1 wrote: »

i havent done any of them yet as im a 2* but this is what we were learning on the 3* course i was just saying that i will be doing it. we were told about the rules of engagement and were told you can fire if the rules are broken but to be honest in my opinion i think they are very broad.

Hi Cork1, can I ask are you in the full time army or just the fca, cos the fca tends to over dramatise everything (well they did when I was in it).

Some1 in the full time army or gardai are trained to know when the use of fire is appropriate (well i hope so anyway :rolleyes:)

Probably just say that for the fca, so they don't shoot a bush in the field when a bird flies out:pac:

Terrontress

cork1 wrote: »

ste88m your on the money there! i cant imagine it now. two armed robbers run out of a bank and our armed unit are fubbling around trying to get elbow pads on. they need one uniform and it needs to be simpified. from what they were wearing on the paper theres just too many bits and pieces

They should have velcro patches on their jackets which, when authorised to use deadly force, they rip off to uncover the yellow checks.

Hooch

Terrontress wrote: »

They should have velcro patches on their jackets which, when authorised to use deadly force, they rip off to uncover the yellow checks.

Just to clear up a few things for people.
The RSU (regional support unit) were supposed to be patroling unarmed at first on regular duties. After the first week this was found to be totally impractable. Members now patrol fully armed. The observer is armed with sig, MP 7 and Taser. The driver is armed with his sig.

The units vests are like the normaly ones with Garda on it. When, in theory, they are armed they can pull a velcro patch that shows Armed Gardaí.

The rules of engagement are different for PDF and AGS, but alot of the points are the same. Gardaí never never have to ask for permission and no person can tell a member to arrest someone nor can they direct a member to open fire. Its down to the members judgement, but the member must be able to account for each round fired.

The RSU are a very sucessful unit so far. As pointed out they have deployed the Taser on several occasions in both Limerick and Cork to great effect. They also saved a motorists life who went into cardiac arrest while driving in North Cork, defibing him with the on board defib.

Anyone who has voted no either has not seen these guys operate or are just voting No because its AGS related

Hooch

Trojan911 wrote: »

Most likely not. A ballistic blanket may be available for deployment i.e drape it over the door of the vehicle.

Ballistic blanket......you must be mixing up the operating regions.

Cork, Kerry and Limerick......RSU are not deployed in IRAQ!!!!

Ballistic blankets are used by defence forces in seriously high risk areas and mostly used by ordanance disposal units.

ste88m

nice guy always wrote: »

Just to clear up a few things for people.
The RSU (regional support unit) were supposed to be patroling unarmed at first on regular duties. After the first week this was found to be totally impractable. Members now patrol fully armed. The observer is armed with sig, MP 7 and Taser. The driver is armed with his sig.

Good to hear, finally, something done right!:D Does that mean that the car now always displays Armed Support Unit or is that meant to be hidden until they're responding to a call?

Hooch

ste88m wrote: »

Good to hear, finally, something done right!:D Does that mean that the car now always displays Armed Support Unit or is that meant to be hidden until they're responding to a call?

Its always displayed. The Armed Response on the side of the car was covered by magentic strip of battenburg. Some of these came off driving at speed, most were stolen from the vehicles so now they are left off and the light bar scrolls AGS/ARU

eroo

Are they based in Kerry, or just patrol Cork/Kerry border?

Hooch

eroo wrote: »

Are they based in Kerry, or just patrol Cork/Kerry border?

Two units, six cars. 3 in cork/3 in Limerick. They in turn patrol Kerry. 3 cars in theory on the run at all times they are working

eroo

Sure, why would they bother crossing their respective borders??:D

Hooch

eroo wrote: »

Sure, why would they bother crossing their respective borders??:D

True true....all the Kerry folk are law abiding people!!

eroo

nice guy always wrote: »

True true....all the Kerry folk are law abiding people!!

Tell that to Ferris and his ilk;):pac:

Hooch

Poccington wrote: »

Lads on an aside, would the RSU's have their own command chain independent of the rank and file members back in the station or do they still operate under the same umbrella?

Only saw this now sorry, they are still Gardaí and so the same chain of command applies. They fall into the remit of the local D/Supt.

Trojan911

nice guy always wrote: »

Ballistic blankets are used by defence forces in seriously high risk areas and mostly used by ordanance disposal units.

And Trojan units in the Met. As you have never served in the Met I wouldn't expect you to know this. Very effective & easy to use. If you re read my post I said "May be available" (#44). They would benefit AGS if they were available here, as added protection for officers.

wrote:

Identification of armour for MPS issue
12. Body Armour issues are overseen by the MPS Body Armour Committee. Its membership is taken from a number of Firearms OCUs, Central Operations, the Police Federation, Public Order OCU, Department of Resource, Department of Information and the Department of Technology.

13. The terms of reference for the committee are:

To discuss, formulate and develop corporate policy in respect of Metropolitan Police Service Body Armour and all personal ballistic protective equipment i.e. helmets, shields, blankets, etc.
To consider requests for individual projects and research on body armour and/or personal ballistic protective equipment.
To agree the arrangements for contracting out projects.
To agree strategies for implementing findings of project and research.

Source

Hooch

Trojan911 wrote: »

And Trojan units in the Met. As you have never served in the Met I wouldn't expect you to know this. Very effective & easy to use. If you re read my post I said "May be available" (#44). They would benefit AGS if they were available here, as added protection for officers.

:rolleyes:

You know were taking about AGS.........not the met. Sure a big blanket that covers the windows are a must. Wouldnt be good it our lads could see out.

And im open to correction (by a serving met officer, no walters please) but I was informed that the blankets used by trojan units are for ordanance, i.e. placing over suspect devices before disposal team shows up.....not draping over windows

DCTF

cork1 wrote: »

in the pdf maybe maybe in the rdf too. but what i was told was you should always call it in so that when the **** hits the fan if there is people saying it was unjustified it cant all be pinned on one person. not saying this is right or wrong though because when it comes down to the guy with the gun makes the call

Lad your so way off the mark it's unbelieveable. I used to be in the DF now a member of AGS.

Just go and get yourself a copy of COD6 and read it will you if you knew what you were on about it's drilled into you from day 1 in the DF.

Also when your being mounted for duty the O/Officer who mounts the guard / stand too / escort etc will go throught the motions. Thats the last he has to do with you more often than not he's not around anyway just the nco i/c. You don't need to radio or contact anyone for permission to open fire use your judgement in line with the rules of engagement & COD6.

There's a magnitude and use of force continuim in the nco tacaide i'm nearly sure outlining the response in situations ranging from public order to armed incidents.

Prevention / Justification / Legal Requirement / Minimum Force.

Murphy(Cork)

DCTF wrote: »

Lad your so way off the mark it's unbelieveable. I used to be in the DF now a member of AGS.

He's just started in the FCA, go easy on the kid

JonAnderton

You know we have ballistic clipboards... seriously...

They're a bit bigger than your standard A4 clipboard and they double up as small shields but are only good against small calibres but the fact is they are...bullet proof clipboards....:D

Hooch

JonAnderton wrote: »

You know we have ballistic clipboards... seriously...

They're a bit bigger than your standard A4 clipboard and they double up as small shields but are only good against small calibres but the fact is they are...bullet proof clipboards....:D

Wow....even though i just laughed myself silly jon....its acually a good idea!!:)

So now ye can write bullet proof tickets......while wrapped in yer bullet proof blankets:D:D:D:p:p

Trojan911

nice guy always wrote: »

And im open to correction (by a serving met officer, no walters please) but I was informed that the blankets used by trojan units are for ordanance, i.e. placing over suspect devices before disposal team shows up.....not draping over windows

Yep, they are used for both purposes. NYPD use them also.

wrote:

The police draped what they called a ballistics blanket over Mr. Sipila's windows. A police spokesman, Lieut. Raymond O'Donnell, said the blanket served as a kind of oversized protective vest to stop bullets.

This is what they look like. Besides, I've seen them being used by ARV's in London some years back during an armed standoff on my old ground.

Hooch

Trojan911 wrote: »

Yep, they are used for both purposes. NYPD use them also.



This is what they look like. Besides, I've seen them being used by ARV's in London some years back during an armed standoff on my old ground.

NGA said
And im open to correction (by a serving met officer, no walters please) but I was informed that the blankets used by trojan units are for ordanance, i.e. placing over suspect devices before disposal team shows up.....not draping over windows
Thanks :D

Trojan911

Withdrawn.

Poccington

DCTF wrote: »

Lad your so way off the mark it's unbelieveable. I used to be in the DF now a member of AGS.

Just go and get yourself a copy of COD6 and read it will you if you knew what you were on about it's drilled into you from day 1 in the DF.

Also when your being mounted for duty the O/Officer who mounts the guard / stand too / escort etc will go throught the motions. Thats the last he has to do with you more often than not he's not around anyway just the nco i/c. You don't need to radio or contact anyone for permission to open fire use your judgement in line with the rules of engagement & COD6.

There's a magnitude and use of force continuim in the nco tacaide i'm nearly sure outlining the response in situations ranging from public order to armed incidents.

Prevention / Justification / Legal Requirement / Minimum Force.

As informative as your post is, I really don't think a public forum is the best place to be discussing COD6 and it's principles?

Hooch

:DWithdrawn:D

Murphy(Cork)

Poccington wrote: »

As informative as your post is, I really don't think a public forum is the best place to be discussing COD6 and it's principles?

Ah in fairness he/she didn't give that much away. Besides it's easily Googled.

Turner

Murphy(Cork) wrote: »

Ah in fairness he/she didn't give that much away. Besides it's easily Googled.

Agreed.

JonAnderton

The blankets can be thrown over railings or vehicles to provide cover from fire.

As seen here...



I've got a better one somewhere, try and dig it out...

They are quite heavy though... I think ballistic matress would be a better term cos they aint blanket like...lol... We have them in the cars and take them to hospital guards as most hospital walls are paper thin and offer no ballistic protection... can tie one of these to the bed and drape it over for instant fortification....

Our clipboards are a bit bigger than this but are the same idea..with the strap at the back...

Clipboard WHy am I so proud of this????

Turner

Can we stay on topic, thread is on the Garda Regional Support Units success???

eroo

So the RSU are armed full time now? Is that official?

JonAnderton

Does the driver not carry a TASER permently as well or is it just the operator?

Does anyone know what method of TASER carriage are theye using? ie what holster and where is it worn?

Hooch

eroo wrote: »

So the RSU are armed full time now? Is that official?

My dear eroo nothing is official in our job:rolleyes:

JonAnderton wrote: »

Does the driver not carry a TASER permently as well or is it just the operator?

Does anyone know what method of TASER carriage are theye using? ie what holster and where is it worn?

Jon, I understand its a comfort issue for driving thats all. Can be carried if he wishes. But most opt not to.

The holster is a type of impact plastic that also holds spare tips for the taser (dont know what ye call them...ammo?) It attaches to the utility belt at an angle.

JonAnderton

Sounds like the holster that comes in the box (which the Met for some reason throw away when giving them to AFO's)... They're a great holster though... But yeah, not the most comfortable for driving...

We use different holsters which can be velcro and clipped onto the ballistic body armour making them ideal for drivers. Could this be done with the RSU's? What are their vests like, could a belt be attached to the vest and the TASER put on this making it more comfortable when sitting in a car.

the 'ammo' are simply called cartridges. Expensive to buy and easy to break. Drop them and the blast doors fall off.. lol

Hooch

JonAnderton wrote: »

Sounds like the holster that comes in the box (which the Met for some reason throw away when giving them to AFO's)... They're a great holster though...

We use different holsters which can be velcro and clipped onto the ballistic body armour making them ideal for drivers. Could this be done with the RSU's? What are their vests like, could a belt be attached to the vest and the TASER put on this making it more comfortable when sitting in a car.

the 'ammo' are simply called cartridges. Expensive to buy and easy to break. Drop them and the blast doors fall off.. lol

The holster is, well its like gurders on a building if you get my drift. Only support lengths making the yellow TASER very very visiable.

The vest they wear are similar to the stab vests we have. They arent specialised vests so you cannot attach anything besides a radio clip!
AGS designing the best:rolleyes:!

JonAnderton

nice guy always wrote: »

The holster is, well its like gurders on a building if you get my drift. Only support lengths making the yellow TASER very very visiable.

The vest they wear are similar to the stab vests we have. They arent specialised vests so you cannot attach anything besides a radio clip!
AGS designing the best:rolleyes:!

These ones...
The TSG and counties use these, a demonstrated... here...

Hooch

JonAnderton wrote: »

These ones... Exo-Skeleton

The TSG and counties use these...

Spot on JOn thats the one.

JonAnderton

As a point of comparsion, in this photo, the guy without the MP5 has his TASER attached to his vest (just below where his right hand is).



This has been semi-authorised for drivers but is still a bit of an issue for non drivers as TASER themselves recommend wearing them on the weak side of the body, be it leg or belt, only.

Hooch

JonAnderton wrote: »

As a point of comparsion, in this photo, the guy without the MP5 has his TASER attached to his vest (just below where his right hand is).



This has been semi-authorised for drivers but is still a bit of an issue for non drivers as TASER themselves recommend wearing them on the weak side of the body, be it leg or belt, only.

Nice one Jon thanks for the lesson! Knowledge is power!!:D *insert deadwood comment......here*

JonAnderton

We'd all prefer the exo-skelton ones. They're easier to use, more sturdy... and look way cooler!!!!...

Rather then have a massive third nut swinging round your crotch...

maglite

Why the weak side?

Where did she get a glock for $200???