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*Charcoal* BBQ/Grilling

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,407 ✭✭✭OldBean


    I mentioned a while ago going to Franklins in Austin, TX - Some photos below. Still thinking about that brisket.
    28470717821_41ce1e6de5.jpg

    27931498014_991e1191d1.jpg

    27931473834_a1102b7b16.jpg


    Seriously impressive stuff.
    The first question I have is that, as this is a gas BBQ, how do I get my food to not just taste like it's been cooked in a gas oven? I mean, aside from the fact the food is being cooked from underneath, what's the difference? I had this idea in my head that I'd need some form of stone or something to generate smoke as that's how a normal BBQ adds flavour, right?

    As mentioned, I've used it a good bit already, and quite a bit of food falls through the grills onto the V-shaped covers, which then burns to a crisp and produces smoke. It also occasionally catches fire though, producing flames that can last a few seconds to a minute or two (depending on how much falls). I'm not sure whether I should be leaving this burned food on the plates, or cleaning it off after every use?

    Finally, food that doesn't fall on the covers falls to the bottom, where it is incinerated too. This needs to be cleaned out regularly enough to ensure it doesn't catch fire, but am I inhibiting the ability of the BBQ to add a BBQ flavour by removing this stuff?

    So in summation, can a gas BBQ make food taste as if it was cooked on a charcoal BBQ, or are they just fundamentally different implements? I have enjoyed all the food I cooked on it (aside from the fish skewers I undercooked last night!) but I just want to be sure I'm getting the best out of it.

    In my opinion, a gas grill/BBQ will never taste the same as a charcoal one, but that's not always a bad thing. Especially for how much easier it is to operate. The drips of food that sizzle and evaporate are part of will add to the flavour - Much as cooking over a large BBQ pit.

    You can add wood to your grill to get more of a 'proper' BBQ flavour, have a google online and play around. In some cases, you may be able fill the V shaped pieces with wood, but definitely make sure it's safe to do so first.

    Do clean the bottom of the grill out - Those bits and pieces of food can contribute first time round, but they'll turn the smoke acrid after a few cooks. They'll also attract bugs, etc.

    I'd say gas and charcoal are pretty different. I'd just use a gas grill to sear/grill/cook fast, whereas charcoal BBQ's can be used for smoking, grilling or a mix of both. But there's a bit more to them between managing coal, wood and air flow. I'm not saying gas grills are bad by any stretch either though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭MaceFace


    SuprSi wrote: »
    So I bought a gas BBQ last week, a standard 4-burner with side plate from Argos. I've used it numerous times since, even cooking my breakfast sausages on it yesterday morning :D However, the documentation provided was very light and I have a few questions I'm hoping someone can help with.

    This is what I bought

    The BBQ itself has those upside down V-shaped covers over the gas flame, with empty space between and below them.

    The first question I have is that, as this is a gas BBQ, how do I get my food to not just taste like it's been cooked in a gas oven? I mean, aside from the fact the food is being cooked from underneath, what's the difference? I had this idea in my head that I'd need some form of stone or something to generate smoke as that's how a normal BBQ adds flavour, right?

    As mentioned, I've used it a good bit already, and quite a bit of food falls through the grills onto the V-shaped covers, which then burns to a crisp and produces smoke. It also occasionally catches fire though, producing flames that can last a few seconds to a minute or two (depending on how much falls). I'm not sure whether I should be leaving this burned food on the plates, or cleaning it off after every use?

    Finally, food that doesn't fall on the covers falls to the bottom, where it is incinerated too. This needs to be cleaned out regularly enough to ensure it doesn't catch fire, but am I inhibiting the ability of the BBQ to add a BBQ flavour by removing this stuff?

    So in summation, can a gas BBQ make food taste as if it was cooked on a charcoal BBQ, or are they just fundamentally different implements? I have enjoyed all the food I cooked on it (aside from the fish skewers I undercooked last night!) but I just want to be sure I'm getting the best out of it.

    A gas BBQ (grill) is fundamentally different than a charcoal BBQ, and the results will be quite different, but both can be fantastic.
    The "idea" with those "V-shaped covers" is supposed to be that these get very hot and as the liquids from the food drops drops on to these, it incinerates and adds a certain flavour back to the food. However, too much of this and your food will just taste burnt as this is all these V-shaped metal bars are doing - incinerating drippings and sending the "smoke" back up to the food.
    The problem with the "not-expensive" grills is that the materials are generally not up to the job. They look the part, but don't function like the more expensive grills. I started out with one of the cheaper gas grills but realising that they only last a few years before falling apart, I bought a Weber (Q Series) which I have kept outside and use for "weekday" meals in all types of weather for the last 7 years maybe. Still as good as the day I got it. I also have a cheaper four burner with side grill but never use it. Only got it when I was waiting on a spare part for the weber.

    With the older grill I had, I often had the flames spurt over the food as well as the fat burned. I solved this by using a spray bottle with water to kill the flames. Nothing worse than burnt food.
    Another thing I done was to get a foil tray and after soaking chips in water, put them in the tray and put them to one side of the grill. This would produce some smoke (although not very much) and give a reasonable flavour to the food. There are "smoke boxes" that do the same, but you are losing some of your cooking area to this.

    When I use my grill, I don't ever worry about imparting a smokey flavour on the food. Yeah, it can be nice, but much more importantly is to use good rubs and season the food first. Better than fighting to produce smoke imho.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,464 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    MaceFace wrote: »
    I started out with one of the cheaper gas grills but realising that they only last a few years before falling apart, I bought a Weber (Q Series) which I have kept outside and use for "weekday" meals in all types of weather for the last 7 years maybe. Still as good as the day I got it.
    That's interesting. I'm considering getting one of the small Q series grills, a Q1200, just for steaks, chops etc. as the crappy electric cooker I have won't even get a cast-iron griddle hot enough (thermostat keeps cutting out) to properly cook a good big steak.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭MaceFace


    Alun wrote: »
    That's interesting. I'm considering getting one of the small Q series grills, a Q1200, just for steaks, chops etc. as the crappy electric cooker I have won't even get a cast-iron griddle hot enough (thermostat keeps cutting out) to properly cook a good big steak.

    If you can stretch to the Q2200 (good deal here) it is much bigger and in my opinion, the minimum you would need for two people. What I find is that when I put a piece of meat on the grill, I have no problems getting proper decent sear marks. However, I always struggle on the flip side of the meat. When I say flip a steak, I always make sure to put it on a "fresh" part of the grill which should be nice and hot, but I reckon the juices in the meat which are now bubbling to the top cool down the surface of the meat to stop the grill marks on the reverse side. This happens with both steak and chicken supremes which are both large. Saying that, it cooks wonderfully. Just not 100%, but I have long wondered whether this is a fault with my Weber as I don't seem to get it as hot as I would like. I use propane and have cleaned it completely but still not blown away by the heat. In my experience, I need to get to 600F for a good searing on both sides, and I only get that in my Big Green Egg.

    Saying all that, I think the Weber is an incredible grill and there is a reason why they are one of the most popular around...


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,464 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    Thanks for that. It's a similar situation you describe with my cooker plus griddle. I can get it nice and hot, plop the steak on and it sizzles away but then the thermostat kicks in and it gets colder again. The flip side never gets quite as well seared as the first. Not sure I can stretch to the Q2200 but as the 'season' comes to an end I'll keep my eyes peeled for bargains.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,828 ✭✭✭unklerosco


    Alun wrote: »
    Thanks for that. It's a similar situation you describe with my cooker plus griddle. I can get it nice and hot, plop the steak on and it sizzles away but then the thermostat kicks in and it gets colder again. The flip side never gets quite as well seared as the first. Not sure I can stretch to the Q2200 but as the 'season' comes to an end I'll keep my eyes peeled for bargains.

    Keep an eye out for a used one. Webers last for ever and spare parts are easy to come by. I bought my Weber Summit used via ebay.


  • Registered Users Posts: 342 ✭✭mickc


    https://www.keengardener.co.uk/weber-midi-q2200-gas-bbq-with-stand.html

    Approx €320 delivered for the q2200 from here.. I was very happy with their service for my master touch.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭fourmations


    hi all

    basic stuff here.....

    ive always used lump for low and slow
    because i was led to believe that briquettes are full of chemicals
    and if you are doing minion method or adding fuel during the cook
    the food would be tainted as the briquettes burn
    and that briquettes should only be used when ashed over?

    is this true or am i confused with the instant light kilo bags you can get?

    im cooking two pork shoulders on saturday and
    due to my crappy smoker (aldi offset) i have to tend the fire once an hour
    when using lump, im sure briqueetes will give me a longer burn,
    i have other things to do so it would be handy if i got two hours per refuel
    instead of one

    thanks


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,278 ✭✭✭dinorebel


    hi all

    basic stuff here.....

    ive always used lump for low and slow
    because i was led to believe that briquettes are full of chemicals
    and if you are doing minion method or adding fuel during the cook
    the food would be tainted as the briquettes burn
    and that briquettes should only be used when ashed over?

    is this true or am i confused with the instant light kilo bags you can get?

    im cooking two pork shoulders on saturday and
    due to my crappy smoker (aldi offset) i have to tend the fire once an hour
    when using lump, im sure briqueetes will give me a longer burn,
    i have other things to do so it would be handy if i got two hours per refuel
    instead of one

    thanks

    As far as I know it's only the easy/instant lighting briquettes that would be an issue I used normal briquettes for smoking with no problems. I have the same smoker as you and need to invest in some heat resistant tape to seal it as the smoke exits everywhere but the chimney.


  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 8,122 ✭✭✭fitz


    All this talk of smoking is making me want to get a big pork shoulder this weekend...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,724 ✭✭✭oleras


    fitz wrote: »
    All this talk of smoking is making me want to get a big pork shoulder this weekend...

    I have talked myself around to getting a kamado Joe.

    Next decision will be to buy in Ireland or UK, 1195 here or 1050ish from UK.

    The only thing pushing me to buy here would be the ease of warranty work if required.

    Any experience with warranty? they have a forum, i might ask on that also.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭MaceFace


    oleras wrote: »
    I have talked myself around to getting a kamado Joe.

    Next decision will be to buy in Ireland or UK, 1195 here or 1050ish from UK.

    The only thing pushing me to buy here would be the ease of warranty work if required.

    Any experience with warranty? they have a forum, i might ask on that also.

    Have a look at the Big Green Egg, arguably the most popular kamado style smoker. A Room Outside stock them but they appear to have removed all prices from their website which I hate.
    However, they had a "package" last year. If I remember correctly, it was €1450 for the large (18.5" cooking surface) with same as the KJ you linked to with the same "starter" bits and pieces but also place setter for indirect cooking and searing station. The place setter is an absolute must, and it looks like the KJ comes with that in the kit you pointed to. I think there may have been a few backs of lumpwood with it as well if I remember correctly.

    They appear to be very similar so if you can get a better deal on the KJ, I'd go for that.
    No experience on warranty, and I assume you have read this review


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭MaceFace


    hi all

    basic stuff here.....

    ive always used lump for low and slow
    because i was led to believe that briquettes are full of chemicals
    and if you are doing minion method or adding fuel during the cook
    the food would be tainted as the briquettes burn
    and that briquettes should only be used when ashed over?

    is this true or am i confused with the instant light kilo bags you can get?

    im cooking two pork shoulders on saturday and
    due to my crappy smoker (aldi offset) i have to tend the fire once an hour
    when using lump, im sure briqueetes will give me a longer burn,
    i have other things to do so it would be handy if i got two hours per refuel
    instead of one

    thanks

    Personally, I steer clear of all briquettes. You can never be sure what is in them. What lump are you using? For long smokes, I use the blue bag from aroomoutside as the lumps in that are often very large, so it burns slower and not as hot as smaller lumps with more surface area.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,407 ✭✭✭OldBean


    Funny, I try stay clear of lumpwood and just go for good briquettes - I find the different sizes in lumpwood, different amounts of actually being charcoal (I've gotten some pretty raw wood) as well as pieces of plastic/tape/crap from wherever the trees are being cut/processed in the bag. Just avoid the easy burn/fast burn/added chems briquettes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭MaceFace


    OldBean wrote: »
    Funny, I try stay clear of lumpwood and just go for good briquettes - I find the different sizes in lumpwood, different amounts of actually being charcoal (I've gotten some pretty raw wood) as well as pieces of plastic/tape/crap from wherever the trees are being cut/processed in the bag. Just avoid the easy burn/fast burn/added chems briquettes.

    I should be surprised, but I'm not really with charlatans fobbing off cheap muck. That's why I tend to stick to the same brand, knowing the consistency, although I bought a few bags of the B&Q lumpwood in the white and red/black bag when it was half price. I could never use that for a long smoke as the pieces are too small, but I use it when I want to cook steaks or pizza.
    Any bag of lumpwood is bound to have different size lumps so before any smoke, I always sort and use a mixture of sizes to ensure a consistent burn.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    oleras wrote: »
    I have talked myself around to getting a kamado Joe.

    Next decision will be to buy in Ireland or UK, 1195 here or 1050ish from UK.

    The only thing pushing me to buy here would be the ease of warranty work if required.

    Any experience with warranty? they have a forum, i might ask on that also.

    Get it from the UK, these things don't break. Go with the KJ too, get much better value for money and there isn't any difference between the grill's

    You could pop down to a room outside and tell them you're about to buy a KJ but I doubt they will match the UK price + items.


  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 8,122 ✭✭✭fitz


    oleras wrote: »
    I have talked myself around to getting a kamado Joe.

    Next decision will be to buy in Ireland or UK, 1195 here or 1050ish from UK.

    The only thing pushing me to buy here would be the ease of warranty work if required.

    Any experience with warranty? they have a forum, i might ask on that also.

    No experience with warranty, but had read they're very good on that front.
    There's a big price difference between the KJ and the BGE when you compare like for like in terms of the accessories that are included add standard with the KJ that you need to buy separately for the BGE.

    Couldn't be happier with my KJ.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,298 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    OldBean wrote: »
    Funny, I try stay clear of lumpwood and just go for good briquettes - I find the different sizes in lumpwood, different amounts of actually being charcoal (I've gotten some pretty raw wood) as well as pieces of plastic/tape/crap from wherever the trees are being cut/processed in the bag. Just avoid the easy burn/fast burn/added chems briquettes.

    There are some absolutely shocking briquettes for sale in Ireland. The Aldi and Lidl briquettes are particularly poor, as much as I love my German shops. If you're doing low and slow you may as well invest the extra in weber briquettes.

    I've never used lump wood for low and slow, it's a waste of lump wood and doesn't give the consistent long burn briquettes does.

    Unless they are instant light briquettes, I don't think chemicals are a concern.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭MaceFace


    Brian? wrote: »
    There are some absolutely shocking briquettes for sale in Ireland. The Aldi and Lidl briquettes are particularly poor, as much as I love my German shops. If you're doing low and slow you may as well invest the extra in weber briquettes.

    I've never used lump wood for low and slow, it's a waste of lump wood and doesn't give the consistent long burn briquettes does.

    Unless they are instant light briquettes, I don't think chemicals are a concern.

    In a reasonably full BGE firebox, I can get 20 hours @ 250F using restaurant grade lumpwood, but I can see how in certain situations, briquettes would be the way to go (maybe where the BBQ is more ventilated).
    The only reason I don't use briquettes is because good quality (e.g. Weber) is no cheaper than good quality lump.
    I'd also be slightly concerned about the amount of ash the briquettes would produce and whether I would need to empty the smoker during the cook.

    It's very much trial and error and what you feel comfortable with, but absolutely agree that people need to keep away from the cheap briquettes that contain additives that can ruin the food or worse, your smoker.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,464 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Does anybody cook / or smoke with wood rather than charcoal ? Lack of predictability,

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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  • Registered Users Posts: 600 ✭✭✭Cocoon


    I'm just trialling an overnighter with the new BGE Minimax, I have just thrown a pork shoulder on and hopefully it will burn away at 225f throughout the night in time for lunch tomorrow.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,298 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Markcheese wrote: »
    Does anybody cook / or smoke with wood rather than charcoal ? Lack of predictability,

    It would actually over smoke the food, I think.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,724 ✭✭✭oleras


    Brian? wrote: »
    It would actually over smoke the food, I think.

    Using kiln dried wood ? I use it in my stove, its pretty smokeless once the moisture is removed.

    These offsets and pure pits that cook with post oak in Texas, its cut and dried on air.

    Here we would need to preburn and add embers to either an offset or pit, seems like a lot of work but i was thinking the same thing a few weeks ago, i can get a 14kg bag of kiln dried oak for 6euro.

    I remember a Franklin video of him cooking a whole pig over a makeshift breeze block, grate and steel lid pit he built in his backyard that he added embers from an already burning fire, time intensive but i am sure the reward would be massive.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,298 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    oleras wrote: »
    Brian? wrote: »
    It would actually over smoke the food, I think.

    Using kiln dried wood ? I use it in my stove, its pretty smokeless once the moisture is removed.

    These offsets and pure pits that cook with post oak in Texas, its cut and dried on air.

    Here we would need to preburn and add embers to either an offset or pit, seems like a lot of work but i was thinking the same thing a few weeks ago, i can get a 14kg bag of kiln dried oak for 6euro.

    I remember a Franklin video of him cooking a whole pig over a makeshift breeze block, grate and steel lid pit he built in his backyard that he added embers from an already burning fire, time intensive but i am sure the reward would be massive.

    Seems like an awful lot of effort. I've seen videos of Carolina pitmasters doing it. They set a camp fire and use the wood to full the cook once it's burned down. It's just a heat source at the end of the day. The meat takes on the smoke flavour in the first few hours of the cook, use the kiln dried oaks at the start as chunks.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,724 ✭✭✭oleras


    Brian? wrote: »
    Seems like an awful lot of effort. I've seen videos of Carolina pitmasters doing it. They set a camp fire and use the wood to full the cook once it's burned down. It's just a heat source at the end of the day. The meat takes on the smoke flavour in the first few hours of the cook, use the kiln dried oaks at the start as chunks.

    Effort or enjoyment.
    All depends i suppose, a pellet smoker will run for 24 hrs without any intervention, a fire pit with wood would need constant supervision, i semi supervised a 15 hour smoke a few weeks ago on a ProQ, a kamado will run for 15-18 seemingly with no refueling.

    How involved do you want to be really, i could guarantee a 12 hour shoulder done over a managed pit with embers is going to taste so much sweeter than an electric smoker.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,298 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    oleras wrote: »
    Effort or enjoyment.
    All depends i suppose, a pellet smoker will run for 24 hrs without any intervention, a fire pit with wood would need constant supervision, i semi supervised a 15 hour smoke a few weeks ago on a ProQ, a kamado will run for 15-18 seemingly with no refueling.

    How involved do you want to be really, i could guarantee a 12 hour shoulder done over a managed pit with embers is going to taste so much sweeter than an electric smoker.

    Aye, I know what you're saying. But I think briquettes and wood chunks are the best of both worlds. Minimal supervision with quality flavour.

    My Weber smokey mountain will do 7-8 hours with no refuelling in the summer. I'm happy enough with that. I find the constant tending needed in winter a bit of a chore. I'm an engineer, I like predictability when I'm doing a long cook.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭flended12


    Brian? wrote:
    Aye, I know what you're saying. But I think briquettes and wood chunks are the best of both worlds. Minimal supervision with quality flavour.


    Agree, I get minimum 7hr unsupervised burn/heat time with wood/briquettes arrangement* on offset aldi smoker.

    *it's a layered minion/snake collaboration


  • Registered Users Posts: 342 ✭✭mickc


    oleras wrote: »
    I have talked myself around to getting a kamado Joe.

    Next decision will be to buy in Ireland or UK, 1195 here or 1050ish from UK.

    The only thing pushing me to buy here would be the ease of warranty work if required.

    Any experience with warranty? they have a forum, i might ask on that also.
    Just make your own. :-)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,724 ✭✭✭oleras


    mickc wrote: »

    Darn it, u posted too late. I ordered it this morning. :D

    Went with the UK supplier.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭fourmations


    so cooking two shoulders as we speak
    12hrs on the smoker, finishing in the oven in foil
    this will be served tmw at 4pm,
    so do i pull it tonight or leave it intact and reheat and pull tmw?

    thanks


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