Ferguson vs Benitez thread

Mr Alan

Mr Nice Guy, i can only speak for me personally.....but during the rafas rant thing & all that, i was pissed off at the disrespect Utd fans were showing to Rafa, as i get pissed off when people slate zonal marking/rotation etc.....but i dont say people shouldnt be allowed say that etc etc, i simply tried my best to defend my manager & explain how they were wrong.....Utd fans dont seem to want to/can't do that, but they know their manager has brought it on himself with his ridiculous rant. so as they have no way to defend the indefensible, they have resorted to "hey, this is mean, lock this thread, people are being mean to Fergie".

well, tough tbh.

Mr. Frost

thegen wrote: »

I think the bottom line here is that Ferguson has not covered himself in glory in the last couple of days.

This is not Fergie bashing. These are things he has done. Benitez has been quiet, which is just as well for him.

Ferguson goes off on one about Benitez with a little help from his friend

He talks about respect not shown to Everton then fiels a weakened team

He then declines to give an interview. Thats an insult to all football fans that would have liked to hear his views on the penalty incident and his views on his young lads performance, which was good.

Since when is giving youngster a chance to prove themselves being disrespectful? Try harder. Yes he should've given an interview.

The text in 'bold' is laughable.

*Also, if it was Arsenal fielding kids everyone would be fawning over them for giving such a good account of themselves.

Dave!

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Also, seeing as Fergie was so offended by Rafa's sopposed insult to Everton 3 years ago that he felt the need to mention it, was he not insulting the Toffies by playing a team of kids against them in the FA Cup semi-final?!

He fielded a team that had more possession, more shots on target, and played just as good as Everton for the whole match

Karmafaerie

Just do a Fergie and refuse to talk about it if it doesn't go your way.
He boycots interviews (that his club are paid for him to do).
All those who are offended feel free to boycott this tread.

Any UTD fan who suggests that Rafa hasn't gotten a hard time in this forum over the last year, 90% of which was from UTD fans, aren't going to add anything to any discussions anyway.

jesus_thats_gre

Dave! wrote: »

He fielded a team that had more possession, more shots on target, and played just as good as Everton for the whole match

I am pretty sure that if you think about your post, you will realise that it proves nothing..

Liam O

Mr Alan wrote: »

Mr Nice Guy, i can only speak for me personally.....but during the rafas rant thing & all that, i was pissed off at the disrespect Utd fans were showing to Rafa, as i get pissed off when people slate zonal marking/rotation etc.....but i dont say people shouldnt be allowed say that etc etc, i simply tried my best to defend my manager & explain how they were wrong.....Utd fans dont seem to want to/can't do that, but they know their manager has brought it on himself with his ridiculous rant. so as they have no way to defend the indefensible, they have resorted to "hey, this is mean, lock this thread, people are being mean to Fergie".

well, tough tbh.

The man was quoting facts that weren't true! he had a sheet of paper and did it in a blatant attempt to discredit Fergie's integrity. I later heard him try to dismiss it as his bad English. Then when his team started winning again he slagged Fergie's accent, saying he couldn't understand him when he talked. Sorry if United fans didn't return the courtesy

Karmafaerie

Dave! wrote: »

He fielded a team that had more possession, more shots on target, and played just as good as Everton for the whole match

When after Rafas "rant" Liverpool destroyed Stoke, hitting the post three times, having almost 70% of possesion, and all the attempts on goal, but only drew 0-0, UTD fans saw it as proof of Rafa cracking.

Funny that, isn't it.:P

Headshot

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Just do a Fergie and refuse to talk about it if it doesn't go your way.
He boycots interviews (that his club are paid for him to do).
All those who are offended feel free to boycott this tread.

Any UTD fan who suggests that Rafa hasn't gotten a hard time in this forum over the last year, 90% of which was from UTD fans, aren't going to add anything to any discussions anyway.

the most of that was from your own supporters asking for the sack

pfft classy supporters

jesus_thats_gre

Headshot wrote: »

the most of that was from your own supporters asking for the sack

pfft classy supporters

Haha.. And what about the United supporters that were call for AF's head up to 18 months ago?

Karmafaerie

Liam O wrote: »

The man was quoting facts that weren't true! he had a sheet of paper and did it in a blatant attempt to discredit Fergie's integrity. I later heard him try to dismiss it as his bad English. Then when his team started winning again he slagged Fergie's accent, saying he couldn't understand him when he talked. Sorry if United fans didn't return the courtesy

Tell me all the facts that weren't true?

Dave!

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

I am pretty sure that if you think about your post, you will realise that it proves nothing..

Sure it does. Ferguson prioritises the league and CL over the FA cup, so he fielded a team that he felt was good enough to win the match without having to put his most important players (at least 2 of which took knocks in their last match) through a tough semi-final game against a good Everton side.

Evidentally he was correct, since the team had all the possession and was the more threatening of the two, and managed to get to a penalty shootout, which decided it.

You disagree?

Headshot

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Haha.. And what about the United supporters that were call for AF's head up to 18 months ago?

Link ?

Mr Alan

Fergie needs no help from Rafa to have his integrity discredited.

He said he finds Alexs accent hard to understand sometimes in passing, whats wrong with that....he says the exact same time about Carragher who he says he can never understand!

Some of Rafas facts were a little "off" alright, but the foundation is viewed as correct by virtually everyone except Utd fans....and thats that he gets away with so much cause of how much of an institution he is in the league.

there is only one man who has been childish throughout this, and thats Ferguson. First off, as has been proven, Rafas outburst came after Fergie couldn't stop commenting on Liverpool, saying they'd crack, or laughing about them spending 20m on Keane etc etc. yet it was about the on pitch matters, unlike Fergies responses which thus far have been nothing but name calling.

then he gets his mate in on the act too, and we're meant to not find it hilarious? come on now.

jesus_thats_gre

Dave! wrote: »

Sure it does. Ferguson prioritises the league and CL over the FA cup, so he fielded a team that he felt was good enough to win the match without having to put his most important players (at least 2 of which took knocks in their last match) through a tough semi-final game against a good Everton side.

Evidentally he was correct, since the team had all the possession and was the more threatening of the two, and managed to get to a penalty shootout, which decided it.

You disagree?

Yes.

He could have field the under 16's team and finished the match with more attempts on goal and more possession.

Karmafaerie

Headshot wrote: »

the most of that was from your own supporters asking for the sack

pfft classy supporters

Still running with that yeah?

About 3 of the regular posters in the Liverpool thread, who're actual Liverpool supporters wanted Rafa out.

Noodler is the only one I can think of.

And I'm fairly sure that every single Liverpool supporter in this thread is a very vocal supporter of Rafa.

But you keep running with it.

The more you concentrate on it, the less attention you have to give to Fergie messing up.

Mr Alan

Headshot wrote: »

Link ?

A lot of posters in the Utd thread, incl a couple of the most respected ones, wanted Fergie gone a couple of seasons ago.

jesus_thats_gre

Headshot wrote: »

Link ?

Quite a few of my United supporting friends, work colleagues and countless people on this very forum. Anyone that has been posting here for a few years should be able to comfirm this. I won't be searching for posts.

thegen

Mr. Frost wrote: »

Since when is giving youngster a chance to prove themselves being disrespectful? Try harder. Yes he should've given an interview.

The text in 'bold' is laughable.

*Also, if it was Arsenal fielding kids everyone would be fawning over them for giving such a good account of themselves.

IMO its disrespectful, because its an FA Cup semi final against a team he defended when Benitez said smaller teams on their visit a few years ago.

He fielded 9 first team starters when he could have rested fewer and stillgone on to win the game. He said the team he was putting out could win the game, still confused?

And sorry why is the be bold tye laughable, Benitez has not responded, which makes him quiet to my knowledge

What is it with utd supporters they feel the need to quote another teams selection's in order to justify their managers.

Unearthly

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Haha.. And what about the United supporters that were call for AF's head up to 18 months ago?

I took care of them, they are all buried somewhere they'll never be found.

jesus_thats_gre

Unearthly wrote: »

I took care of them, they are all buried somewhere they'll never be found.

Exactly how fans that show such disloyalty and lack of patience should be treated..

Dave!

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Yes.

He could have field the under 16's team and finished the match with more attempts on goal and more possession.

Doubtful, but what's your point here? You don't think the United team fielded was good enough? You think no matter who was fielded that it would have been good enough against Everton? If that's the case then why would he take the risk with his most important players?

What are you getting at? It was a good call by Ferguson today, not much you can do when it gets to a peno shootout.

Jazzy

Headshot wrote: »

the most of that was from your own supporters asking for the sack

pfft classy supporters

you are wrong. on this forum there was f-all asking for rafa to be sacked. a few disgruntled voices and watnot and yeah, maybe a few instances... but by in large it was mostly utd & other fans saying he should be sacked. ya wanna know why? cos these forums are like tennis.

think about wat the topic is here

now that you've done that, think about does it really matter
answer is no.
fact is, papers need to sell and this sort of nonsense gets them selling. its not really important wat he said or wat rafa says. it doesnt affect the football.
if u think it does, then it might as well be pro wrestling

Denis Irwin

thegen wrote: »

IMO its disrespectful, because its an FA Cup semi final against a team he defended when Benitez said smaller teams on their visit a few years ago.

He fielded 9 first team starters when he could have rested fewer and stillgone on to win the game. He said the team he was putting out could win the game, still confused?

What is it with utd supporters they feel the need to quote another teams selection's in order to justify their managers.

Again United's 2nd team more than held there own against Everton's first team so how is that being disrespectful.

Highsider

Headshot wrote: »

the most of that was from your own supporters asking for the sack

pfft classy supporters

Every club has their numptys no?

Karmafaerie

Dave! wrote: »

He fielded a team that had more possession, more shots on target, and played just as good as Everton for the whole match

Karmafaerie wrote:

When after Rafas "rant" Liverpool destroyed Stoke, hitting the post three times, having almost 70% of possesion, and all the attempts on goal, but only drew 0-0, UTD fans saw it as proof of Rafa cracking.

Funny that, isn't it.:P

Dave! wrote: »

Sure it does. Ferguson prioritises the league and CL over the FA cup, so he fielded a team that he felt was good enough to win the match without having to put his most important players (at least 2 of which took knocks in their last match) through a tough semi-final game against a good Everton side.

Evidentally he was correct, since the team had all the possession and was the more threatening of the two, and managed to get to a penalty shootout, which decided it.

You disagree?

What.

No response to the person who shoots your argument down?

Doing a Ferguson?

Headshot

Highsider wrote: »

Every club has their numptys no?

yes ill agree with that

but what I dont like is liverpool fans question someones mentality

its very low blow

Mr Alan

Headshot, do you remember the gifs of Rafa in a straight jacket etc? or his head photoshopped onto keegans body?

where were you with you morals then?

it appears you only care when its SAF who is getting stick.

Daemos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy-ZoxX9oYc

Dave!

Karmafaerie wrote: »

What.

No response to the person who shoots your argument down?

Doing a Ferguson?

Didn't notice your post buddy

How does it shoot down the argument exactly? Why don't you address the points? United's team held their own against Everton for the whole match, and had more shots on goal and more possession. So evidentally they were good enough. A coin toss decided the match.

Yeah?

deisedevil

Mr Alan wrote: »

laughing about them spending 20m on Keane etc etc.

Lol. That was funny though.

For that alone I can see why Rafa wants control of transfers.

thegen

Denis Irwin wrote: »

Again United's 2nd team more than held there own against Everton's first team so how is that being disrespectful.

you really dont think that fielding a second string team did not show disrespect to Everton. It was not only disrespectful to Everton but also the the greatest club competition in the world. Oh I forgot utd dont care about the FA cup.

If you dont no problem its your call

Denis Irwin

DaPoolRulz wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy-ZoxX9oYc

WTF has that video got to do with who's cracking up . Benitez would have done the exact same thing if it had happend to Liverpool

bUILDERtHEbOB

Dunno if this has been posted yet, got it from another site.

[edit]Do not repost that song please[/edit]

Denis Irwin

thegen wrote: »

you really dont think that fielding a second string team did not show disrespect to Everton. It was not only disrespectful to Everton but also the the greatest club competition in the world. Oh I forgot utd dont care about the FA cup.

If you dont no problem its your call

Eh again United had the majority of possesion for the match and had the most shots on target so again how were they disrespectful to Everton.

Liam O

Mr Alan wrote: »

Fergie needs no help from Rafa to have his integrity discredited.

He said he finds Alexs accent hard to understand sometimes in passing, whats wrong with that....he says the exact same time about Carragher who he says he can never understand!

Some of Rafas facts were a little "off" alright, but the foundation is viewed as correct by virtually everyone except Utd fans....and thats that he gets away with so much cause of how much of an institution he is in the league.

there is only one man who has been childish throughout this, and thats Ferguson. First off, as has been proven, Rafas outburst came after Fergie couldn't stop commenting on Liverpool, saying they'd crack, or laughing about them spending 20m on Keane etc etc. yet it was about the on pitch matters, unlike Fergies responses which thus far have been nothing but name calling.

then he gets his mate in on the act too, and we're meant to not find it hilarious? come on now.

he mentioned Liverpool in 1 line in the club programme and next thing we are being fed bull about how he uses 'zonal marking' to intimidate officials and how he moans about fixtures, when Benitez himself is on record at complaining about fixtures and criticising refs

Dave!

thegen wrote: »

you really dont think that fielding a second string team did not show disrespect to Everton. It was not only disrespectful to Everton but also the the greatest club competition in the world. Oh I forgot utd dont care about the FA cup.

If you dont no problem its your call

So you don't believe teams should prioritize competitions? Same players play week in week out for FA cup, Carling Cup, CL, League....?

You think all competitions are equally valued?

Karmafaerie

Dave! wrote: »

Didn't notice your post buddy

How does it shoot down the argument exactly? Why don't you address the points? United's team held their own against Everton for the whole match, and had more shots on goal and more possession. So evidentally they were good enough. A coin toss decided the match.

Yeah?

And when Liverpool dominated Stoke.
70% possesion, hit the woodwork 3 times etc, but drew (not lost) UTD fans said it was proof Rafa had cracked.

Now can you see where I'm coming from?

It doesn't matter if ye were the slightly better team.

Ye lost.

When we drew after dominating Stoke, ye said it was us cracking.

Now you see?

Liam O

Dave! wrote: »

So you don't believe teams should prioritize competitions? Same players play week in week out for FA cup, Carling Cup, CL, League....?

You think all competitions are equally valued?

The irony :rolleyes:

Mr Alan

Liam O wrote: »

he mentioned Liverpool in 1 line in the club programme and next thing we are being fed bull about how he uses 'zonal marking' to intimidate officials and how he moans about fixtures, when Benitez himself is on record at complaining about fixtures and criticising refs

i think it was more how in Alexs interviews, he is more often than not let say things about officials that no one else is.

and it wasn't 1 line in a program, it was continually up to that point in the season :rolleyes:

i agree the moaning about fixture changes was hypocritical from Rafa, and said so at the time.

Headshot

Mr Alan wrote: »

Headshot, do you remember the gifs of Rafa in a straight jacket etc? or his head photoshopped onto keegans body?

where were you with you morals then?

it appears you only care when its SAF who is getting stick.

there stick and calling into question a mans mental health

maybe i shouldve said somthing about those gifs tbh
I think i put up the keegans body one but how can you say that has anything to do with mental health

Karmafaerie

Headshot wrote: »

there stick and calling into question a mans mental health

maybe i shouldve said somthing about those gifs tbh
I think i put up the keegans body one but how can you say that has anything to do with mental health

What about a manager saying that another manager is dishonoring the history of another club?

While being completely wrong I may add.

Daemos

Denis Irwin wrote: »

WTF has that video got to do with who's cracking up . Benitez would have done the exact same thing if it had happend to Liverpool

C'mon, can't you take a joke?

thegen

Denis Irwin wrote: »

Eh again United had the majority of possesion for the match and had the most shots on target so again how were they disrespectful to Everton.

Is not about the performance. I already congratulated the utd youngsters on their performance.

This is about putting out your second string in a cup semi final. Can you not see it? Its ok to do it in the carling cup as many teams have done, but the fa cup is a different matter, or maybe you think not.

Dave!

Karmafaerie wrote: »

And when Liverpool dominated Stoke.
70% possesion, hit the woodwork 3 times etc, but drew (not lost) UTD fans said it was proof Rafa had cracked.

Now can you see where I'm coming from?

It doesn't matter if ye were the slightly better team.

Ye lost.

When we drew after dominating Stoke, ye said it was us cracking.

Now you see?

What's that got to do with Ferguson's team selection?

The argument is that United disrespected Everton by fielding a second string team, presumably the suggestion is that we should have fielded our best team out of respect to Everton and to the FA cup.

My point is that since we're still in other competitions that are more highly valued, we have to prioritize. So Fergie put out a team that he felt was good enough to win.

The team had all the possession and all the shots and played just as good as Everton. So it was a good enough team.

The result is irrelevant to the argument -- the team was good enough to outplay Everton (albeit marginally) for the match, and a penalty shootout decided it.

The team that plays better does not always win -- as you just demonstrated with your stats on the Pool-Stoke match.

Liam O wrote: »

The irony :rolleyes:

?

Headshot

Headshot wrote: »

there stick and calling into question a mans mental health

maybe i shouldve said somthing about those gifs tbh
I think i put up the keegans body one but how can you say that has anything to do with mental health

when you say people are questioning fergies mental health, are you talking about the "cracking up" jibes?

Mr Alan

Headshot wrote: »

there stick and calling into question a mans mental health

maybe i shouldve said somthing about those gifs tbh
I think i put up the keegans body one but how can you say that has anything to do with mental health

because Keegan is emotionally fragile?! as we all know.

so pics of Rafa in a straight jacket & saying he has cracked up, t shirts saying the same, and thousands chanting it is just "stick"

but saying Fergie is losing it, is unforgiveable abuse and in bad taste as its to do with mental health?

i really did expect better from you man.

Highsider

Headshot wrote: »

yes ill agree with that

but what I dont like is liverpool fans question someones mentality

its very low blow

Oh please. I'm a Liverpool fan and if i'm not mistaken Rafa got more than his fair share from Utd fans when he did his interview with remarks about ferguson. What goes around and all that. So i guess you did'nt see the hundreds of Utd fans at OT wearing the "Rafa's cracking up" T-shirts a few weeks ago then.

Denis Irwin

thegen wrote: »

Is not about the performance. I already congratulated the utd youngsters on their performance.

This is about putting out your second string in a cup semi final. Can you not see it? Its ok to do it in the carling cup as many teams have done, but the fa cup is a different matter, or maybe you think not.

So if Liverpool had of being playing yesterday and then still had their League match against Arsenal on the Tuesday then your saying Rafa wouldn't have made a number of changes to the starting XI to save a number of players for the League game which would be the more crucial of the two. Of course he wouldn't :rolleyes:

thegen

Dave! wrote: »

So you don't believe teams should prioritize competitions? Same players play week in week out for FA cup, Carling Cup, CL, League....?

You think all competitions are equally valued?

No teams have to prioritize but the carling over the fa cup? Utd have fielded stronger teams in the carling.

Headshot

Karmafaerie wrote: »

What about a manager saying that another manager is dishonoring the history of another club?

While being completely wrong I may add.

what can i say to that

fergie was wrong to say that and rafa is wrong to say other stuff
its mind games,plain and simple

we'll only know the results of who wins by the end of the season

liverpool fans should be proud fergie is playing mind games with Rafa ,just shows that liverpool have come far