tattoo and hiv

jason31

i got told i am hiv positive last month!! its a crap deal but cant do anything about it!!

anyway been through a **** time with it all but am coming out the other end!! anyway i want to get a tattoo like this

http://www.positivenation.co.uk/issue110/pics/pps-copy.jpg

so do i tell the guy who might do it im positive or just lie when he asks?? i dont want to lie cause it might risk other people!! or will he say no i wont tattoo you cause of the risk!!

i dunno anyone any experience of this???

Crumble Froo

all tattooists treat blood as thought it's infected and it counts as discrimination if the tattooist was to do anything different than s/he normally would when dealing with you because of your HIV.

im not sure what the law is on disclosing it in ireland, so im open to correction on this, but in general, i don't think you do have to disclose it. so it is up to you. if you feel better telling the tattooist, then go for it, it *definitely* counts as discrimination if they refuse to do it and you actually could involve some sort of legal thing, but i wouldnt imagine that'd happen.

just don't forget to post a pic in the "ill show you mine" thread when it's done

hot2def

TELL YOUR TATTOOIST.


I'm not buying the "well, they should be taking all the precautions anyway, so don't tell them" line. Of course they should, but you are asking this person to deal with your blood. Of course you should tell them.


I think most tattooists would have no problem with it.

Star Lord

100%, tell the tattooist.

As Crumble Froo said, it's discrimination if they don't, but still you don't want to leave anything to chance, and you wouldn't want to end up with a guilty conscience because of it.

Also, are you totally sure that is what you want tattooed on your body?

GodOfRadio

Tell him.

Dancor

GodOfRadio wrote: »

Tell him.

Or HER!

amazingemmet

DamoElDiablo wrote: »

100%, tell the tattooist.

As Crumble Froo said, it's discrimination if they don't, but still you don't want to leave anything to chance, and you wouldn't want to end up with a guilty conscience because of it.

Also, are you totally sure that is what you want tattooed on your body?

not sure if its what the op intended but it was quite common in the gay community and bdsm for people to get that if they were hiv positive

Star Lord

Ah that'd explain it. Was just concerned that it may be something that'd have been decided rashly, possibly in anger.

jason31

DamoElDiablo wrote: »

Ah that'd explain it. Was just concerned that it may be something that'd have been decided rashly, possibly in anger.

its somthing to think about alright but i dont dont think im been rash a least i hope not!! the way i see it is that i am at a turning point in my life and the biohazard tattoo is the point im at, i intend to following on with other tattoo's to mark the future good times and bad, a journey of sorts!!!

i will now definitely be telling the tattooist about status, i am a responsible guy and wont put others at risk!!

thanks all for your input

Toots

Funnily enough, once while I was getting a tattoo I asked the artist if you can still get tattooed if you are HIV positive, and he said he'd have no problem with tattooing someone, but he'd ask them to go to their doc first and make sure it was OK for them ie that the extra pressure put on the body healing a tattoo would be detrimental to the person's overall health.

Star Lord

jason31 wrote: »

its somthing to think about alright but i dont dont think im been rash a least i hope not!! the way i see it is that i am at a turning point in my life and the biohazard tattoo is the point im at, i intend to following on with other tattoo's to mark the future good times and bad, a journey of sorts!!!

i will now definitely be telling the tattooist about status, i am a responsible guy and wont put others at risk!!

thanks all for your input

Cool cool, just wouldn't want you to end up regretting it, if you looked back on the time that you decided to get it done, if you were in a bad frame of mind then you may not want to be reminded of that. If it's something that you have put enough thought into though I'm sure it'll be fine.

Toots made a good point too of making sure that you're not going to put too much stress on your system.

Cithe

Not only should you tell your artist, but you should really think if thats the best thing for you and your healing, Also ask yourself, why would you knowingly want to expose someone to your blood for the sake of vanity?
Any well trained artist will treat each person with the same sterile procedures " just in case" but since you are aware of your HIV status, it would be a huge risk to just assume that your artist is that well trained.. Some are just not, and not to mention equipment malfunctions do happen causing splatter and an occasional accidental needle prick too.. If Your sister or brother choose Tattooing as a career would you want them at risk with clients that are aware that they have HIV? Its almost unfair to the artist that they HAVE to say yes to you or face a discrimination lawsuit.. remember they are not health care providers with a sacred oath to preserve life, they are just artist that do best in the medium of skin..overall its your call, think about how badly do you really need a tattoo

Star Lord

Putting it that way then nobody would get any tattoos or piercings done. That's a very negative attitude!

If a tattoo artist is not properly versed in blood borne pathogens and all that goes with it, including taking all the necessary precautions, then they really should not be in the business.

Raze_them_all

amazingemmet wrote: »

not sure if its what the op intended but it was quite common in the gay community and bdsm for people to get that if they were hiv positive

seriously???? *covers neck*

Cithe

its sad to say, that I daily have to fix bad tattoos done by " home artists" they are out there, and I wish they would just go legit.. I am very well versed on blood born pathogens, but just the fact the someone knows that they have HIV should really think if they need a tattoo that bad, aside from their own health having the potential becoming compromised, the same as if someone was diabetic, it can hurt them more, or pregnant,due to the strain it puts on the body, and the artist has no option if an HIV person , that is hyper sensitive to pain starts bouncing around in the chair, putting that artist at risk...It really irresponsible behavior whatever the disease may be..if you have something that is contagious, the responsible thing to do would be to avoid exposure, even by just staying home with the common cold as to not spread it.. why expose anyone to a deadly disease for the sake of personal vanity? This is an issue where artist have no choice in .If an artist was HIV+ would the situation be the same? would he have to reveal it to clients? would you even want to get tattooed by him ? knowing the needle could easily swipe over his fingers and back into your skin by accident..I have seen it happen...

Will

Cithe you raise very good arguments.

Jason31, you made the right decision there about going to tell your artist. Fair play.

Don't really know what else to add. Your tattoo artist as far as i know can't turn you away for having HIV, if he did it's discrimination... I think.

I would echo Cithe's comments and say that you should really think long and hard about this and the impact it may/will have first and foremost on your own health. At the end of the day a tattoo is an open wound, putting pressure on your immune system.

Dancor

Will wrote: »

Your tattoo artist as far as i know can't turn you away for having HIV, if he did it's discrimination... I think.

I wouldnt imagine so. Artists turn people away all the time for many reasons. Hand/Face/Neck tattoos, Certain symbols, gang colours and crappy ideas. *If* I wanted a swastika and an artist refused to do it, its discrimination, but I wouldnt have a leg to stand on because its an unregulated industry where the artist has final say.

Crumble Froo

hmmm, can't talk about a legal perspective in ireland, cos im less familiar with there, but in nz and australia (granted though, it's a regulated industry in australia), it does count as discrimination. even things like a dentist putting on two pairs of gloves instead of one, counts as discrimination. i work in pretty close realms with an advocacy service and is counted as discrimination.

im not sure if the swastika example holds up, because people with HIV/HCV have illnesses. put that into the same category as someone who is disabled, perhaps, and you can see where the legalities come from. same way plenty of pubs can say that they wont admit people wearing gang patches or nazi stuff, but they could never get away with saying that they wont admit people with, say, hepatitis B, C or HIV, which could all easily be spread if there was a fight, or through bad hygiene practises.

at the end of the day, there are so so so many people who do have these viruses and don't know about it, or don't know how easily transmitted they are (believe me, the misinformation and lack of education around hep c is astounding, even some GPs have shocked me), that nobody working with blood should ever let their guard down and just assume it's relatively safe.

Raze_them_all

I think the artist could have a case of refusing on the basis of working in a safe work environment.

Will

Was talking to rob in snakebite about this yesterday and he was saying that it shouldn't matter as everyone is treated as if they already have hiv. Furthermore hiv only lasts about 6 minutes outside the human body seemingly and tattoo needles aren't hollow so it is highly doubtful that enough blood would get in there to transmit sufficient amounts if an artist were to stick themselves. Which was followed on with, if a tattooist regularly sticks themselves with the gun they shouldn't be tattooing at all.

He also mentioned that back when modern tattooing was still developing underground and the practices weren't safe a thing called tattoo or tattooist syndrome developed where by some tattoo artist actually built up a resistance to hiv since they were exposed to it in small amounts over a period of time.

tattoodemon

Crumble Froo wrote: »

all tattooists treat blood as thought it's infected and it counts as discrimination if the tattooist was to do anything different than s/he normally would when dealing with you because of your HIV.

im not sure what the law is on disclosing it in ireland, so im open to correction on this, but in general, i don't think you do have to disclose it. so it is up to you. if you feel better telling the tattooist, then go for it, it *definitely* counts as discrimination if they refuse to do it and you actually could involve some sort of legal thing, but i wouldnt imagine that'd happen.

just don't forget to post a pic in the "ill show you mine" thread when it's done

i think you will find it is against the law to knowingly put someone at risk. If you know you are hiv positive and dont disclose it to someone who is performing a procedure on you that may put that person at risk you ARE BREAKING THE LAW!!!. in a professional tattoo studio because everyone gets new needles and everything else is sterilised the only person really at risk is the tattooist!! when you get a tattoo, you should tell your tattooist of ANY medical condition!

jason31

Cheers Will thanks for checking that out, good to know that snakebite as always know what their about!!

I appreciate this tread is not the nicest reading but i think it has highlighted some important issues, all arguments are understandable in particular some of the points raised by cithe.

by implication cithe is a professionally tattoo artist and knows he's business, however what concerns me is that he has seen serious mistakes happen, i am referring to needle pricks or malfunction of equipment. overruns of needles cannot be allowed to happen otherwise the art of tattooing becomes an unsafe practice, tattoo equipment should be of a standard where it cannot go wrong, like a pacemaker is built too. hiv has an incubation period of 10 years or more and as few get tested regularly there are lot of people out there carrying it, hepatitis A, B, C and D also have a incubation period of several years and are 100 more infectitious than hiv (in America alone there are 1,5 million who have hepatitis)!! there is no margin of error when dealing with theses infections, there can be no mistakes!! tattoodamon pointed out that the only risk is the tattooist himself because of new needles, true but not if the tattooish is hiv+, again mistakes cannot be allowed too happen!!

Toots and Damo made good points about the health of a hiv+ person getting tattooed, their are some hiv+ people that are sick with AIDS and should not attempt to get tattooed but with modern health care theses are now few thankfully, healing a tattoo should not be a issue for me but i will will check with my doctor just in case!!

with regard to discrimination i would never play that card nor could i see others play it, if someone is uncomfortable with tattooing me then i wouldn't want to done by them and i would repect their view, this would be clear from the start, a tattoo given in duress is not a nice experience for either party!! so i dont think there would be a liklyhood of lawsuits!!!!

I think this tread has highlight again the need for regulation in the industry, in particular complete knowledge and training surrounding all blood born pathogens, this training should be to a medical standard, also i hope it has highlighted that tattoos are a serious business and you should only go to a skilled, trained, safe and knowlegable artists,

Finally, its very important to say that if a needle prick or equipment malfunction ever does happen or if anyone is ever compromised in any way by HIV there is a drug available called PEP (post exposer Prophylaxis) which they shoud get immeditally (you will have to go to an hospital emergancy unit), that drug has a very high success in stopping hiv infection from taking in the body!!

Crumble Froo

Will wrote: »

Was talking to rob in snakebite about this yesterday and he was saying that it shouldn't matter as everyone is treated as if they already have hiv. Furthermore hiv only lasts about 6 minutes outside the human body seemingly and tattoo needles aren't hollow so it is highly doubtful that enough blood would get in there to transmit sufficient amounts if an artist were to stick themselves. Which was followed on with, if a tattooist regularly sticks themselves with the gun they shouldn't be tattooing at all.

now, see, where im really interested in this issue isn't so much from a HIV viewpoint, as from a hepatitis C one. HCV can last a few days outside the human body, (and hep b, over a week). as well as that, in blood to blood contact, hep c is much more efficient in transmitting itself than HIV, which is why the spread of HIV has been pretty well contained within injecting drug users, while hep C is still rampant. where rob says there isn't really the chance for enough blood to be transferred to spread the virus, with hep c, it takes a microscopic amount, literally, doesnt even have to be enough to be seen by a human eye to spread it. i'd be curious what rob would have to say about hep c particularly on this one. not to mention that it can take 20years before symptoms start showing themselves, if at all, so most people don't actually know that they have it, which is where the notion of treating everyone like they have contaminated blood comes from.

tattoodemon wrote: »

i think you will find it is against the law to knowingly put someone at risk. If you know you are hiv positive and dont disclose it to someone who is performing a procedure on you that may put that person at risk you ARE BREAKING THE LAW!!!. in a professional tattoo studio because everyone gets new needles and everything else is sterilised the only person really at risk is the tattooist!! when you get a tattoo, you should tell your tattooist of ANY medical condition!

like i said, my main interest is in hep c, and im living in a different country. i know there are only 3 circumstances in which you have to disclose your hep c status in nz, and they are if you're joining the army, giving blood, or applying for health insurance. same in australia, excpept in new south wales, you have to disclose if you're donating sperm as well. legally, they are the ONLY times you have to disclose it.

as for knowingly putting someone at risk, the tattooist is equally at risk if the person isnt aware of their positive status, the tattooist surely is aware of that fact, and treats each person as though they could have a serious virus.

Will

well don't take what i say as gospel please, was just a normal convo and was paraphrasing. he did mention hep c but can't remember the finer points but was something along the lines of what you were saying

Crumble Froo

no worries. like i say, i work in a hep c clinic, as well as getting people treated, we're pretty involved in blood awareness (hence the stall at the tattoo convention next year), and advocacy for the people we look after. im mostly just trying to learn as much as i can about everything to do with hep c, so just curious, mostly