irish citizenship/naturalisation

blueythebear

[Jackass] wrote: »

I'm amazed that people married to a citizen can't become a citizen!

My girlfriend is from the U.S. and is coming over in May to live for 3 / 4 years (whilst I'm back in college) and then we intend on moving back to the U.S.

In that time, we will more than likely be getting married, so will she be able to get citizenship at any point before we head off to U.S. again?

As far as I know, citizenship is straight forward in the U.S. once you marry a citizen.

Your intended spouse will most likely not be able to apply for Irish Citizenship on the basis of living here for 3-4 years. Unless she has previously lived in Ireland, she would need to gain 3 years of reckonable residency (i.e. stamp 4 status, in this case, on the basis of marriage). Then she would need to apply which takes at least 2and a half years.

The Department will, in the latter stages of the 2 year processing time will request tax documents and proof of residency. If there is no tax paid, then your spouse would have to show how she is supporting herself which if you are both in the USA will be very difficult to show without revealing that you both are in fact, living in the USA.

Wisco

By signing the citizenship application, your gf would also be declaring that she plans to live in Ireland in the future- if INIS find out you plan to leave right away, they may not grant citizenship.
Also, as for US citizenship, I'm not sure it's as straightforward as you think- you have to meet a residence requirement there too and then have to take an exam (which many Americans wouldn't pass!), have no criminal record, etc. But you will definitely get a green card if you're married, as far as I know.

Our man in Havana

Not a gaurantee at all. It is subject to extensive background checks and income levels etc.

Sarsor

Applied in August 2007 , got no answer at all.

stevecrow74

hehe, wonder what my chances are then? have been living here since 1981 (7yrs old), did the whole national school, secondary school, leaving cert etc, worked for numerous years, dossed for a few more, various apprenticeships, know the language (mostly).. and still a tan :eek:

reckon slim to none without paying serious €€€€

acme4242

http://irelandsreversediscrimination.wordpress.com/2010/02/20/self-serving-lying-john-odonoghue/

John O’Donoghue, who removed post-nuptial citizenship from the Irish Family.

There is no good reason I, as an individual politician, would seek to put barriers in the way of genuine spouses of Irish citizens gaining citizenship. To do so would be an act of lunacy.

He misled, lied and after came the final betrayal

england

does anybody knows do they ask allways for P21 even when u apply as spouse of irish citizen?

walrusgumble

Our man in Havana wrote: »

It is just as difficult as for any non citizen.

Why on earth do they need bank statements etc?

proof of finance and residence

walrusgumble

acme4242 wrote: »

http://irelandsreversediscrimination.wordpress.com/2010/02/20/self-serving-lying-john-odonoghue/

John O’Donoghue, who removed post-nuptial citizenship from the Irish Family.



He misled, lied and after came the final betrayal

Where are the lies? The removal of automatic citizenship was placed with a requirement to live with Irish spouse in ireland for 3 years. Very few people, provided that they got status to live in Ireland will ever be refused. how is this so burdensome? He was also talking about legal immigrants and not ones who marry in order to secure their residency.

Dermot Aherne's statement refers to residency. this is about citizenship. the op is a person who does not have the problems Aherne refers too.

Who was he betraying anyway?

walrusgumble

acme4242 wrote: »

The Irish DOJ have decided, without any explanation or justification to deny the grant of EU Treaty Rights to Irish citizens and their family.
Its absurd, but its true.

DOJ only grant freedom of movement rights to other EU(non-Irish) nationalities and their family.
Its a scandal.

Aceme is not correct

Unless he has been living in a cave, he would know that Ireland's reason for this is because unless the Irish citizen moves to another EU state or at least works in another state (carpetener) EU Laws on Free movement do not apply. What the Irish authorties do is their own business and what other countries do with their people is their business. This is not, as Aceme suggests reverse discrimination as there are two different scenerios.

What acem also fails to tell you its the whilst there is a few countries that adopts the method he would like, Ireland follows the same practice of EU countries that covers just over half of the eu population. so the scandal is european wide. Acme also fails to state that very few countries continue to adopt automatic citizenship after marriage. there are always some conditions.

with regard to residency, Under domestic law, the only people that need to be worried are those with deportation orders before marriage. even if illegal (but no d/o) they still might get status if there is solid evidence of a lengthy relationship (this is not hard to proove)

The reasons for the approach traditionally taken by the State (ie automatic citizenship as of birth and marriage) was because of the country's tradtional low population and high emmigration and the wish to make sure that the bastard child of America, England etc had some Irishness in them.same for wifey By 1999- 2000 the population was on the increase. It was well known tha the EU was set to expand from 15 countries to 23/25. More people were coming into the country and were not from the EU and they were coming in by other means than the proper procedure such as holiday/visit visa (and not overstaying) and work permits. The approach taken by the government was a means of controlling the population. It was basically catching up with other EU countries

Acme go to the government website and dig out the Dail and Senand debates over the 2001 act.

f"reedom of movement rights- read the preamble of Directive 2004/38 EC. There is a big clue as to why it does not do what you wished. The Treaty provision on EU Citizen is subject to conditions and secondary legislation. Ie the directive. No doubt of course, a minority (powerful one) will go against the wishes of a majority member states and say different. But seems they are bogged down by one interesting EU case at the moment.


Now aceme this matter is about citizenship and not residency

acme4242

walrusgumble wrote: »

proof of finance and residence

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]“There's nothing in the law or the constitution that says I have to have a bank account. Some people dye their hair yellow or put rings in their noses, I decided I wasn't going to open an account. Put it the other way round - there was no reason that I should.”[/FONT]

walrusgumble

acme4242 wrote: »

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]“There's nothing in the law or the constitution that says I have to have a bank account. Some people dye their hair yellow or put rings in their noses, I decided I wasn't going to open an account. Put it the other way round - there was no reason that I should.”[/FONT]

Aceme, the op asked why these are required. THe offical answer is to prove finance and self sufficiency. The naturalisation process is an administrative procedure and not a legal procedure. It there fore allows the Minister to request various documents in light of changing environments. The law has nothing to do with it. Again, nearly every country requests bank accounts statements as it is the law that you expected to be self sufficient. Most payments whether wages or social welfare are paid via bank accounts. Its the best form of proof of self sufficiency without having to go through every knook and crany of personal detail. You need banks statements for visa why not citizenship? It is standard practice to require bankstatements. The law clearly allows for it to occur. Its not a legal matter.

Someone protesting in providing the simpliest requirements and trying to (erroneously) hide behind "the law", appears to be hiding something - ie lack of finance. Again where are the Burdens? What's with the complaint? Unless you have other locations where you keep your dosh (like most normal ordinary people) it will be in some form of financial institution. There is nothing stopping one from providing other evidence of where their income comes from. It be pretty stupid not to have some place to secure it

Secondly, with the nature of current accounts, people regularly take money out possibly twice a day. Its a perfect set of proof that you have been residing in Ireland (assuming it you - which in most cases, nearly all, it will be you who is taking the money out)

This comment is extremely childish. The person here is seeking advice and asking questions. If you are not going to live up to the norms here, then don't bother replying or applying for citizenship yourself.

acme4242

"I wanted to do it that way. Some people want to open the account. There is nothing in the law or the Constitution that you should, you know, follow the normal issues. Some people put their hair yellow, some people wears rings in their nose, it's not the normal thing. I decided to cash my cheques full stop."

walrusgumble

acme4242 wrote: »

"I wanted to do it that way. Some people want to open the account. There is nothing in the law or the Constitution that you should, you know, follow the normal issues. Some people put their hair yellow, some people wears rings in their nose, it's not the normal thing. I decided to cash my cheques full stop."

Wouldn't it be easier now and just open an account considering its expected, and alot is at risk. Instead of putting up uneducated drivel from the reverse discrimination website (for reasons I explained earlier) and complaining that the State are putting up barriers when they are not. Most people, not some people, open up bank accounts. They do so for many reasons, and when people fail to do so (and are earning money) people like Revenue get interested.

There maybe nothing in legislation and the consitution, but don't expect the law to help if the minister refuses on the basis of failure to provide documents confirming finace. To recommend to someone what you have recommened is retarded.

famof5

Applied for my husband in April 2008, received confirmation letter after a week of receivement. After that we received nothing else, no letters to request additional information..NONE. Only once so often we manage to get through the phone helpline, every time we do so, they have a different story. Last time they said they're waiting on documents to come from Gardai. How long do they need for that?? 3 years?? I'm a Dutch citizen, my husband is Algerian. He came to Ireland in 2000 and I followed in beginning 2001. I'm puzzeled as why it has to take so freaking long and why we did not receive any additional letters/information except from that very first confirmation letter. Are they just stringing my husband along or are they realy looking into his application?

blueythebear

famof5 wrote: »

Applied for my husband in April 2008, received confirmation letter after a week of receivement. After that we received nothing else, no letters to request additional information..NONE. Only once so often we manage to get through the phone helpline, every time we do so, they have a different story. Last time they said they're waiting on documents to come from Gardai. How long do they need for that?? 3 years?? I'm a Dutch citizen, my husband is Algerian. He came to Ireland in 2000 and I followed in beginning 2001. I'm puzzeled as why it has to take so freaking long and why we did not receive any additional letters/information except from that very first confirmation letter. Are they just stringing my husband along or are they realy looking into his application?

This sort of timeframe is not unusual unfortunately. Just write a few letters to them requesting a decision so they are reminded of the application. It's unfortunate but this is the system, an incredibly slow system crippled with layers of bureaucracy, understaffing and poor training of existing staff.

I think I bang on about this too much , but if you're dutch and he's non-EU you can apply for permanent EU Treaty Rights after 5 years of marriage, if you are exercising EU Treaty rights, i.e. working/full time study/sufficient resources.

famof5

blueythebear wrote: »

This sort of timeframe is not unusual unfortunately. Just write a few letters to them requesting a decision so they are reminded of the application. It's unfortunate but this is the system, an incredibly slow system crippled with layers of bureaucracy, understaffing and poor training of existing staff.

I think I bang on about this too much , but if you're dutch and he's non-EU you can apply for permanent EU Treaty Rights after 5 years of marriage, if you are exercising EU Treaty rights, i.e. working/full time study/sufficient resources.

My husband does have stamp4 EU-family member or someting like that in his passport allready, means he's free to travel within the EU. That's what you mean,no?

blueythebear

famof5 wrote: »

My husband does have stamp4 EU-family member or someting like that in his passport allready, means he's free to travel within the EU. That's what you mean,no?

He would have stamp 4 EU FAM alright based on your marriage but it has to be renewed every 5 years (at best) and is somewhat dependent on your marriage so that he must generally travel with you or to join you and must produce proof of same.

Permanent residence would be permission for him to remain in Ireland in his own right and can travel independently of you and there is no need to go to the GNIB to renew (unless he gets a new passport).

Chicks

My husband's citizenship was approved last week

It took close to 4 years to be processed.

AntFitz

If anyone has filled out the form based on marriage, would you know what should go in here where its underlined in red because our peace commissioner didn't know and just stuck in his own name there, which I don't think is correct and I don't want the application to be refused for some silly mistake. He also crossed out the other options like Notary Public etc, but I read previously that this could also be cause for refusal. :eek:

Declared before me a [Notary Public][Commissioner for Oaths][Solicitor][Peace Commissioner] [person authorised by insert authorising statutory provision to take and receive statutory declarations]

Full PDF here, its on pages 11, 12, and 13.
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Form%208%20-%20Ver%204.0%20Nov%202011.pdf/Files/Form%208%20-%20Ver%204.0%20Nov%202011.pdf

So can someone confirm what should be put in that space, and should the other Positions be crossed out or left as is.

Thanks a mil.

smsmartinez

chancer_007 wrote: »

I'm Irish, wife s.american.

we meet all criteria,work,time in country etc..

just wondering has anyone gone through the whole process?
whats the experiences?do they make you jump through hoops?
total cost taking everything into account?

form8 mentions Sworn Affidavit, etc...the smallest details

thanks in advance..

hi my wife is from havana we are married 4 years living back in ireland just over 3,years applied for citizenship on 10 october 2012 and received a letter 2,weeks later stating that she has moved on to the next stage of her applaction and we should be hearing back from them in the near future cost 50.euro for lawyer to stamp and witness our signitures 175.euro for processing fee and when you are accepted its 950.euro

sparkling sea

Citizenship application forms can be witnessed and signed by Peace Commissioners - Citizens Information Centres usually offer this service for free

smsmartinez

hi
yes i know that citizenship forms can be signed by peace commisoner ect but we got our lawyer to do it for us as he will keep a record on file and photocopys of all paper work as you have to send a lot of personal info

skywalker1

Hi all,

I've just been following the thread here. I'm Irish and my wife is Filipina, she applied for citizenship back in May of 2013 and we finally got our letter saying we've been approved in December. Since then my wife has sent off the fee of €950 and anything else they needed, but we've yet to hear anything back, so nearly 2 months ago. Do they not even acknowldge they recieved the cash as we were afraid it's got lost in the post or something? Is it another few months before they even let you know when the ceremony will be, etc?

Thanks!

VaclavK

same here... got approved in December, sent the bank draft, photos etc. and no reply yet (of any kind)

skywalker1

not sure if you're leaving here in Dublin VaclavK, but I saw this online today regarding the next ceremony:

http://www.integratingdublin.ie/newsevents/news/2014/02/26/irish-citizenship-ceremony-march-2014/

No word from INIS of course though yet!

VaclavK

skywalker1 wrote: »

nocurrentlyt sure if you're leaving here in Dublin VaclavK, but I saw this online today regarding the next ceremony:

http://www.integratingdublin.ie/newsevents/news/2014/02/26/irish-citizenship-ceremony-march-2014/

No word from INIS of course though yet!

I do live in Dublin. I will post here if/when i get my own invite.

I was going for April as i am currently traveling in Africa and won't be back till mid April.

Thanks for spotting this.

smsmartinez

chancer_007 wrote: »

I'm Irish, wife s.american.

we meet all criteria,work,time in country etc..

just wondering has anyone gone through the whole process?
whats the experiences?do they make you jump through hoops?
total cost taking everything into account?

form8 mentions Sworn Affidavit, etc...the smallest details

thanks in advance..

hi as long as you have all your paper work in order and translated into English history of employment history of residence marriage cert it will cost 50 euro to get notarised by a solicitor

immi.q

Hi all,
I have a question about naturalisation based on Irish association.My Daughter is an Irish Citizen and i have 3 year reckonable residency.So i want to apply for naturalisation based on her.Am i eligible to apply under irish association.As you know minimum requirement for Reckonable residency if you apply under Irish association is 3 years completly depend on minister absolute discretion.5 years i understand is just a standard requirement.
So question is if i apply for naturalisation under Irish association based on my daughter Irish citizenship will it be valid application for naturalisation or not?
Did any body see any similar kind of this case which was approved or any other suggestion,advise.Will really appreciate it.
Thanks

Pro Hoc Vice

immi.q wrote: »

Hi all,
I have a question about naturalisation based on Irish association.My Daughter is an Irish Citizen and i have 3 year reckonable residency.So i want to apply for naturalisation based on her.Am i eligible to apply under irish association.As you know minimum requirement for Reckonable residency if you apply under Irish association is 3 years completly depend on minister absolute discretion.5 years i understand is just a standard requirement.
So question is if i apply for naturalisation under Irish association based on my daughter Irish citizenship will it be valid application for naturalisation or not?
Did any body see any similar kind of this case which was approved or any other suggestion,advise.Will really appreciate it.
Thanks

Your question is seeking legal advice on a subject very few would have any knowledge about. The giving of advice is prohibited by the charter and in any case why would anyone believe any random stranger on the internet. If you want to get an answer to such a specific question seek a professional.