UFC 97 & Anderson Silva ***SPOILERS***

ginoginelli

Since the first ufc i have been wondering why fighters never used the karate stalwart side-kick to the knee. Was it too dangerous or just impractical? Id heard from numerous "martial arts experts" how this was a fight finishing move and "deadly" in a self defence senario. That theory went out the window last night when I saw Leites take about 15 of them without even being downed..

In reference to the booing, I wouldnt participate in it myself, but can totally understand it. The montreal fans dished out their dosh to see the top fighter in the world defend his belt and instead were treated to a glorified sparring contest.

Booing is part and parcel of the ufc anyway at this stage and I think is a bi-product of the wwe style set-up.

Killme00

Tim_Murphy wrote: »

No idea if they are legal or not but def a sh^ty dangerous move. .

Any idea if they would be allowed in an Irish event? God i hope not, they could easily be carreer ending.

Killme00

rovert wrote: »

In what way?

seriously you cant see how these are odd?

Tito amoung others talk their way through their fights giving dogs abuse to their opponents, i guess they see it as all part of the war. Having a rule which isnt enforced is almost as bad as nothing having a rule in the first place.

Disallowing your corner from stopping the fight by throwing in the towel is odd to me because your corner should know you better than anyone and should be able to step in when it has become too much and the referee hasnt seen it (which has happened recently to Pete Sell).

Killme00

ginoginelli wrote: »

Since the first ufc i have been wondering why fighters never used the karate stalwart side-kick to the knee. Was it too dangerous or just impractical? Id heard from numerous "martial arts experts" how this was a fight finishing move and "deadly" in a self defence senario. That theory went out the window last night when I saw Leites take about 15 of them without even being downed...

The risk of injury is huge and if that injury occurs it could be career ending.

connie00

I have no opinion on the legality or not, but I've wondered before is it legal to aim a low kick such as a thigh kick at the side of someones knee ? That would be fairly dangerous too if it connected.

rovert

Killme00 wrote: »

seriously you cant see how these are odd?.

Even reading your reasons I don’t see why you are calling them "odd" exactly.

Killme00 wrote: »

Tito amoung others talk their way through their fights giving dogs abuse to their opponents, i guess they see it as all part of the war. Having a rule which isnt enforced is almost as bad as nothing having a rule in the first place.)

Fighters should have a degree of decorum when fighting. The rule is about the ethic of respecting the ref and the other fighter.

Killme00 wrote: »

Disallowing your corner from stopping the fight by throwing in the towel is odd to me because your corner should know you better than anyone and should be able to step in when it has become too much and the referee hasnt seen it (which has happened recently to Pete Sell).

The referee should have the ultimate digression over stopping fights. Of course refs aren’t perfect and some are at times totally incompetent. But this rule is in place to eliminate fighters getting their corner to throw in the towel as a face saving exercise when they don’t want to get beat.

Nothingcompares

it was my understanding, based on reading a post from another poster on this forum, that the reason why throwing the towel in is illegal is because it causes the match to be stopped due to DQ, which is essentially what you're trying to achieve by throwing the towel in. So basically you're in a fight and your corner man throws a towel in you get DQed, same thing happens if he throws a water bottle in.

rovert

Nothingcompares wrote: »

it was my understanding, based on reading a post from another poster on this forum, that the reason why throwing the towel in is illegal is because it causes the match to be stopped due to DQ, which is essentially what you're trying to achieve by throwing the towel in. So basically you're in a fight and your corner man throws a towel in you get DQed, same thing happens if he throws a water bottle in.

Yep a towel is just an "object" under UFC rules and holds no symbolic value like it does say in boxing.

Tim_Murphy

Killme00 wrote: »

Any idea if they would be allowed in an Irish event? God i hope not, they could easily be carreer ending.

I have no idea to be honest. It's something I should look into though, I used to have a pretty nifty side kick back in the day, it might be time for it to make a comeback! :pac:

cowzerp

:eek:Remember when Rogan was saying how fresh he was in the 5th and can keep the pace for 5 rounds.

5 Rounds of doing nothing, anyone could do that-was like a relaxed spar.:eek:

he waited over a minute before he even threw a weak jab that missed, that sums up the fight for me, he's fine when fighting lads who come at him but is not that great at taking the fight to an opponent, his job is to win but he certainly did nothing to protect his reputation.

Nothingcompares

Well one thing I think that comes into play is that if one guy starts trying to do some kick to the knee the other guy will probably shoot right back with a kick to the knee. Like if you were fighting in a rule structure in which kicks to the balls weren't specifically disallowed some eejit might try and aiming for the groin intentionally. I suppose in my limited understanding of the game, if one guy was trying to kik you in the balls, I'd pretty muh expect the other guy to start doing the same...

The Anderson Silva thing has got me thinking. Firstly he says he was fighting to a game plan and he's ultimately aiming to win the fight "as perfectly" as possible, thus I assume he means, take as little damage as possible. So when he does this engage/disengage mad **** I'm just thinking yeah, he doesnt care what people think, he's trying to win. In the same way, the wrestlers of old used to go for the take down and try and lay on top of the guy for the the round and get the decision. But, he does apologize at the end of press conferences to dana white (and maybe to fans too) for his performances. I heard a rumour that he was so frustrated about the cotes fight that he did 2 rounds of sparring after it (which might just be because the fight ended prematurely). So, what's he saying, he's fighting to his game plan but he's sorry it's boring? But he's going to keep doing it? To make it entertaining we need a striker that wants to hunt him down, but no one can do it without getting KOed with a counter.

Anderson Silva never looked like losing to Leites, maybe Leites only chance of winning was getting into a scramble on the mat and hoping to come out on top. So you could argue AS did the intelligent thing and never even went there, thus having a 99% probability of winning.

If GSP, fedor and BJ Penn started fighting like AS (which I think they could, but not as well AS) we'd have a lot of boring fights.

mirwillbeback

http://mmafrenzy.com/10074/greasegate-part-two-anderson-silva-accused-of-transfering-vaseline-to-his-chest-and-arms/

tell me there won't be a rematch :eek:

rovert

The good old days

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4iZ-NEz-mg

:P

ollieo

Those leg kicks by Silva looked nasty, I agree that they should be made illegal as you could easily injure an opponent using that technique.

dunkamania

Not trying to be smart, but you could end an opponents career with most MMA moves. If I had to take a shot to the knee I would rather take it front on, as opposed to a full force thai kick to the side, or a heel hook that i didnt tap to in time. I was a little surprised that anybody thought it was illegal.

Leite's grappling is in a different class to Anderson's, for that reason, the manner in which he won the fight ahould not be held against him in my opinion.

Also, Anderson didnt apoligise after. From FIghtlinker

Here’s what Anderson apparently said in Portuguese:

Contrary to his manager Ed Soares’ translation after the fight, Silva did not apologize for his performance.

“I did well in the fight,” said Silva in Portuguese. “I can’t always make you happy.”

Silva continued his condemnation of Montreal’s vocal MMA fans.

“Not everyone understands what they are watching,” Silva said. “But hey, you guys can boo if you want. You are paying my salary.”

And here is how Ed Soares relayed that sentiment:

“It’s unfortunate that things sometimes turn out that way, but when you’re not in here, it’s hard to tell what going on sometimes,” said Silva. “Sorry.”

amacachi

dunkamania wrote: »

Not trying to be smart, but you could end an opponents career with most MMA moves.

Exactly what I was thinking.

ginoginelli wrote: »

Since the first ufc i have been wondering why fighters never used the karate stalwart side-kick to the knee. Was it too dangerous or just impractical? Id heard from numerous "martial arts experts" how this was a fight finishing move and "deadly" in a self defence senario. That theory went out the window last night when I saw Leites take about 15 of them without even being downed..

Same here, could never understand why nobody went for those kind of kicks, I had assumed they were illegal.

cowzerp

dunkamania wrote: »

Not trying to be smart, but you could end an opponents career with most MMA moves. If I had to take a shot to the knee I would rather take it front on, as opposed to a full force thai kick to the side, or a heel hook that i didnt tap to in time. I was a little surprised that anybody thought it was illegal.

Leite's grappling is in a different class to Anderson's, for that reason, the manner in which he won the fight ahould not be held against him in my opinion.

A thai kick is more sore than damaging and if your used to taking them not so bad, i've never heard of any serious leg injuries due to them, the odd rib injury though!

heel hooks are a different story, i always thought that joint strikes are illegal but clearly not judging by the UFC rules.

ginoginelli

dunkamania wrote: »

Not trying to be smart, but you could end an opponents career with most MMA moves.

True.

I think also the fact that the kness are slightly bent when the fighters are in their fighting stance minimizies the target area and lessens the impact. At the same time I wouldnt complain if they were made illegal as they are a bit of a cheapshot..

pablohoney87

Joe Rogan Originally questioned the legality of the fron kick to the knee when brandon vera used it on jardine i think.
My own opinion is that it should be banned but I can see the Argument for both sides.

calex71

cowzerp wrote: »

i always thought that joint strikes are illegal but clearly not judging by the UFC rules.

rules say small joint manipulation is illegal i think

If silva had been more aggressive etc and looking for the win and got a spectacular KO would the kicks be such a talking point today?

My 2c on it, the kick could have been regarded as a stomp maybe? (guys in the game might have an opinion on that ) didnt the ref warn silva that stomps to the feet where bad at one point in the clinch? Edit : that could have been a different fight last night, but i denfiately recall that stomps to the feet where a no no there

Personally if i was hit once with that id be twice shy about the 2nd one

Burkatron

calex71 wrote: »

rules say small joint manipulation is illegal i think

If silva had been more aggressive etc and looking for the win and got a spectacular KO would the kicks be such a talking point today?

My 2c on it, the kick could have been regarded as a stomp maybe? (guys in the game might have an opinion on that ) didnt the ref warn silva that stomps to the feet where bad at one point in the clinch? Edit : that could have been a different fight last night, but i denfiately recall that stomps to the feet where a no no there

Personally if i was hit once with that id be twice shy about the 2nd one

Stomps were illegal because it was held in Canada AFAIK. There was doubt to the event even taking place at 1 stage as MMA under U.S/Unified rules technically isn't legal in Canada so they had to change certain parts of the ruleset!

ollieo

dunkamania wrote: »

Not trying to be smart, but you could end an opponents career with most MMA moves.

Valid point.

ta2liam

The question remains.... Who is next for Silva??

I personally would love to see Bisping in the cage with Silva. Bisping i feel doesn't have the ground game that Silva has but as a stand up fight, if Bisping was on form and Silva came out the same way he did in the last fight i couldn't see him beating Bisping. In saying that Silva loves when fighters attack him and counters, alot of the time with a clinch, but Bisping is comfortable in the clinch and has used it himself with devastating effect.
All in all I think it would be the most entertaining fight that Silva has been in for a long time.

People may argue that Yushin Okami will be next but he still has to prove himself in the UFC, there has been many fighter from Pride that have a great rep and can't back it up, plus he lost to Rich Franklin who we all know Silva destroyed not once but twice and has since moved up to LHW along with Henderson

dunkamania

Hendo is still a MW afaik.

Wanderlai would be an interesting matchup, because there is no way that could be a dull fight.
I was hoping Chuck would beat Shogun, because I think it makes more sense for Shogun to be at MW.

In my opinon, we will have Anderson against a LHW, maybe Rampage or Forrest, then assuming GSP beats Alves, GSP will move up to fight for the MW belt.

ta2liam

dunkamania wrote: »

Hendo is still a MW afaik.

Wanderlai would be an interesting matchup, because there is no way that could be a dull fight.
I was hoping Chuck would beat Shogun, because I think it makes more sense for Shogun to be at MW.

In my opinon, we will have Anderson against a LHW, maybe Rampage or Forrest, then assuming GSP beats Alves, GSP will move up to fight for the MW belt.

yea Henderson moves up and down but ur right he is MW at the min. I forgot all about Wanderli that would be an exciting fight but to see GSP move up the MW belt is a fight everybody wants to see, its hard to pick a winner between the 2 but GSP might just take it with his wrestling skills but thats only if he can get close enough to Silva.

The last 3 fights for Silva have been poor competition, he needs a challenge

Nothingcompares

I think there is any number of interesting fights for Anderson at 205 and 185 (i'd mention Brandon vera also) but what i'd like to see most is

Rashad vs Machia
Rampage vs anderson

winner v winner loser v loser

Valmont

Is anyone else a bit surprised that people are calling for side kicks to the leg to be banned? Especially since nothing really happened to Leites? And saying they were disrespectful is the stupidest thing ever, so he can't side kick him out of respect but a punch in the face is ok?

Valmont

Killme00 are you actually going to put forward an argument as to why these kicks should be illegal? It seems you've just been reading sherdog too much to me. Potentially career ending? As said before, that's not a valid argument as many other techniques are career ending.

Also, you seem to be blatantly ignoring the fact that Leites took about 15 of them and I haven't read anything about his knee being broken or something.

ollieo wrote: »

they should be made illegal as you could easily injure an opponent using that technique.

I suppose the fighters should really be playing chess then? If it was so easy to injure an opponent why didn't it injure Leites?

dunkamania

Valmont wrote: »

I suppose the fighters should really be playing chess then?

They would probably be more sucessful at chess-boxing, then straight forward chess

http://www.chessboxing.com/

Killme00

Valmont wrote: »

Killme00 are you actually going to put forward an argument as to why these kicks should be illegal? It seems you've just been reading sherdog too much to me. Potentially career ending? As said before, that's not a valid argument as many other techniques are career ending.

Also, you seem to be blatantly ignoring the fact that Leites took about 15 of them and I haven't read anything about his knee being broken or something.
QUOTE]

Edit: Personal abuse

Have you ever taken a kick like this to the knee? I have and i know how much it hurts. This is actually being discussed without the insults over on the KO forum and although i dont agree with the use of the kicks, both Barry and Paddy make great cases. I accept that they are within the rules.

For the record, i have no problem taking hard kicks or punches to the face, legs or body, its just that a straight kick to the front of the knee makes me cringe.