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Negatives of EU

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    #32
    Hitman Actual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭Hitman Actual


    towel401 wrote: »
    yeah its not all bad, but its not all good either. i don't like the concept of a bunch of lads in brussels making laws for places they know nothing about.

    are you saying that every health and safety law has to be good, no matter how extreme or ridiculous it is? like the safety bar on the lawnmower - i'm sure the muppet who came up with that idea never mowed a lawn in their life. they probably paid some lad to do it for him. maybe they didn't even know they had a lawn

    You'd have to point me to the specific EU directive that led to such a 'feature' before I could comment on that.

    Edit to add: I don't mean to dodge the question there; I accept that there may be some purported EU laws that seem over-zealous. But there are a few things to consider: Firstly, a lot of the ridiculous 'EU' laws that we hear about are just stories bandied about by euroskeptics, particularly the British tabloid press. Secondly, when a directive does come from the EU, it is often the national government that is to blame for implementing the law in a poorly thought-out fashion (after all, a directive is just a guideline on how to implement a certain law). And thirdly, you really need to know the context of the directive in question to judge whether the law is justified in the first place.


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    #33
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Hitman Actual wrote: »
    You'd have to point me to the specific EU directive that led to such a 'feature' before I could comment on that.

    Interestingly, there's a rant with much the same substance on the blog of a British Tory candidate. He specifically directs his ire at 2002/95/EC on the Restriction of the Use of certain Hazardous Substances in Electrical and Electronic Equipment. However, that Directive makes no mention of lawn mowers or safety bars, being, in fact, about permissible levels of toxic elements in disposable electrical/electronic waste.

    I can find no applicable EU or Irish legislation (we have legislation on lawn mowers as a result of an EU Directive, but it's about noise levels, not safety). If the Tory bloke is correct, then what has actually happened is that the UK government has added the safety bar to the Act implementing the Directive (despite its irrelevance), and we now have them because nobody makes lawn mowers specifically for the Irish market.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #34
    Hitman Actual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭Hitman Actual


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    Interestingly, there's a rant with much the same substance on the blog of a British Tory candidate. He specifically directs his ire at 2002/95/EC on the Restriction of the Use of certain Hazardous Substances in Electrical and Electronic Equipment. However, that Directive makes no mention of lawn mowers or safety bars, being, in fact, about permissible levels of toxic elements in disposable electrical/electronic waste.

    I can find no applicable EU or Irish legislation (we have legislation on lawn mowers as a result of an EU Directive, but it's about noise levels, not safety). If the Tory bloke is correct, then what has actually happened is that the UK government has added the safety bar to the Act implementing the Directive (despite its irrelevance), and we now have them because nobody makes lawn mowers specifically for the Irish market.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw

    Yeah, I read the rant on that blog as well; I found his bitterness really amusing. And I checked out that directive as well... nothing of relevance at all.


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    #35
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,718 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    French is worse, having translated French scientific papers. The same word was often used throughout the paper to mean a variety of quite different things depending on context.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw
    that's because french had a major reboot / obstrufuctation a couple of hundred years ago, can't look up a relevant link because I don't know what to search under


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    #36
    towel401
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭towel401


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    Interestingly, there's a rant with much the same substance on the blog of a British Tory candidate. He specifically directs his ire at 2002/95/EC on the Restriction of the Use of certain Hazardous Substances in Electrical and Electronic Equipment. However, that Directive makes no mention of lawn mowers or safety bars, being, in fact, about permissible levels of toxic elements in disposable electrical/electronic waste.

    I can find no applicable EU or Irish legislation (we have legislation on lawn mowers as a result of an EU Directive, but it's about noise levels, not safety). If the Tory bloke is correct, then what has actually happened is that the UK government has added the safety bar to the Act implementing the Directive (despite its irrelevance), and we now have them because nobody makes lawn mowers specifically for the Irish market.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw

    thx man. i have been trying to track down the law that mandates the safety bars for years with no luck.so it should still be perfectly legal to sell new lawnmowers in ireland without safety bars. interesting stuff, might be able to sell a few 'pre-modified' mowers when the economy picks up

    the lad who told me this came from the EU was supposed to be an 'expert' in the field. but really didn't have much of a clue, like most 'experts'


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    #37
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    towel401 wrote: »
    the lad who told me this came from the EU was supposed to be an 'expert' in the field. but really didn't have much of a clue, like most 'experts'
    Sounds like someone's got issues with figures of authority.


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    #38
    meganj
    Registered Users Posts: 424 ✭✭meganj


    Nody wrote: »

    2) Translations; no, there should not be a need to translate every single document into 15+ languages to make all languages equal. Translate them into English and then let the respective country pay for the translation to their local language IF NEEDED (I'm saying this as a non English native speaker).

    The European Court of Justice, and in fact most of the legislative bodies in the EU are based on the French system so the language they should only translate to is French then we should have to pay these extras for the translation. In addition to this an obvious point but a good one none the less, languages are DIFFERENT! It takes weeks to translate a legal document from French to English, English to German if only because the legal terminiolgy is different. One word in German can have four different meansings in English and so on. And anyway the riot that the EU would have on their hands if they chose to only translate to English would be huge.

    Negative points in the EU? For me it's got to be the power structures. This constant toing and froing between the Commission, the EP, the Council and the Council of Ministers, where no one has all the power but no one has enough.


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    #39
    towel401
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭towel401


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Sounds like someone's got issues with figures of authority.

    this lad was by no stretch of the imagination a 'figure of authority' lolz


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    #40
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,570 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    towel401 wrote: »
    all the ridiculous regulations that come out of the freaking EU by a bunch of clueless politicians who can't even change their own light bulbs.

    there's a law to regulate every aspect of our lives now. its freaking crazy, if it was just the lads in dublin in charge they'd be too busy worrying about tribunals to bother making laws that only annoy the rest of us.

    You're wasting your breath here. The people replying to your post clearly are members of the far left who want government legislation about everything (Fine Gael recently complain that only up to 30% of Irish law was enacted by Brussels. Hopefully we can make that 100% in the near future :rolleyes:)


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    #41
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    Fine Gael recently complain that only up to 30% of Irish law was enacted by Brussels.
    Source?


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    #42
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    The people replying to your post clearly are members of the far left who want government legislation about everything

    Source?


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    #43
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,570 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Source?

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0525/1224247323602.html


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    #44
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0525/1224247323602.html
    That's an article about Fine Gael refuting one of Libertas' copious lies about the EU; not complaining about not enough laws coming from Europe.

    If you're not a Libertas member, you've certainly been studying their propaganda techniques.


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    #45
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    If you're not a Libertas member, you've certainly been studying their propaganda techniques.

    I smell a shill tbh...


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    #46
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,570 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    That's an article about Fine Gael refuting one of Libertas' copious lies about the EU; not complaining about not enough laws coming from Europe.

    If you're not a Libertas member, you've certainly been studying their propaganda techniques.


    Yes, the fact that Fine Gael produced that figure as an aswer increases the validity of the claim (although they themselves might be wrong). Instead of 80% of laws (which never even sounded reasonable), Fine Gael claims only up to 30%.

    Er.. I suppose I should thank you for the propaganda statement as you seem to highly value the strength of Libertas spin... :confused: If you have an issue with Fine Gael's figure, take it up with them.


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    #47
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    I read the article didn't see them complaining that only 30% of Irelands laws are from the EU.

    RandomName2

    Are you a member of Libertas?
    Are you an employee of Libertas?
    Are you employed by a PR company engaged by Libertas?
    Are you an employee of Rivada, or any other Declan Ganley owned company?
    Are you an employee or relative of any other Libertas member or candidate?

    Please answer those questions without equivocating.

    I normally wouldn't ask someone something like this, but your posts bear all the hallmarks of a paid shill, and you avoided the topic when it was last raised.


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    #48
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    Fine Gael recently complain that only up to 30% of Irish law was enacted by Brussels.
    RandomName2 wrote: »
    Yes, the fact that Fine Gael produced that figure as an aswer increases the validity of the claim (although they themselves might be wrong).
    No, it doesn't.

    I don't appreciate the attempt to insult the collective intelligence of this forum's readers.


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    #49
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,570 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »
    I read the article didn't see them complaining that only 30% of Irelands laws are from the EU.

    RandomName2

    Are you a member of Libertas?
    Are you an employee of Libertas?
    Are you employed by a PR company engaged by Libertas?
    Are you an employee of Rivada, or any other Declan Ganley owned company?
    Are you an employee or relative of any other Libertas member or candidate?

    Please answer those questions without equivocating.

    I normally wouldn't ask someone something like this, but your posts bear all the hallmarks of a paid shill, and you avoided the topic when it was last raised.

    Where exactly are you coming from? Oh it's just an ad hominem attack.

    'All the hallmarks of a paid shill' - presumably because I stated an objection to the Lisbon treaty?

    Err.. I didn't 'avoid' the issue Mr. Pope, but the answer is no, although I have previously been affiliated to Fianna Fail (Scofflaw believes this is a 'cover' for Libertas members).

    So... if I was a member that would instantly negate my argument? What the hell are you on about? Smear campaigns and spin is, you would claim, an exclusive trait of Libertas. Thank you for demonstrating that this is not the case, and that pseudo-communists like yourself are more than capable of it ;).


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    #50
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    Where exactly are you coming from? Oh it's just an ad hominem attack.

    'All the hallmarks of a paid shill' - presumably because I stated an objection to the Lisbon treaty?

    Err.. I didn't 'avoid' the issue Mr. Pope, but the answer is no, although I have previously been affiliated to Fianna Fail (Scofflaw believes this is a 'cover' for Libertas members).

    So... if I was a member that would instantly negate my argument? What the hell are you on about? Smear campaigns and spin is, you would claim, an exclusive trait of Libertas. Thank you for demonstrating that this is not the case, and that pseudo-communists like yourself are more than capable of it ;).

    Do you not agree it would be a relevant fact? I didn't say it would negate your argument, however it would allow someone to make up their own minds as to your motivation, were you a member of Libertas, or acting on their behalf.

    Thank you for answering my question.

    FWIW I'm not a member of any political party, or act on their behalf.

    Also I'm not a communist, pseudo or otherwise.


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