Teachers on the doss!

RoundTower

Lil Kitten wrote: »

Don't forget about the language support teacher and teh resource teachers and the HSCL officers.

In inner city disadvantaged schools there is a 15:1 cap in Junior/senior infants. I had 11 children last year though (it's a small school). The kids were mostly foreign so I had a Language support teacher in for an hour a day. Four of the kids also went out to a learning support teacher for Reading Recovery.

By that means... there is one teacher per 3.66 children!

Do you understand the idiocy of that article now OP?

no, it doesn't mean that. If the support teachers were only working 1 hour a week then (hopefully) the department isn't paying them to do a full time job, and they weren't counted in the OP's statistics.

It sounds like your school has a pupil:teacher ratio of 8:1 or 9:1 or something. Even LESS than the 16:1 suggested in the OP, and way LESS than the 30:1 the teachers' unions would have you believe.

Whatever about the standard of journalism in the Sunday World, they got this one right. There are a lot of teachers doing very little teaching and no amount of self-entitled ranting in this thread disguises that.

kraggy

RoundTower wrote: »

no, it doesn't mean that. If the support teachers were only working 1 hour a week then (hopefully) the department isn't paying them to do a full time job, and they weren't counted in the OP's statistics.

It sounds like your school has a pupil:teacher ratio of 8:1 or 9:1 or something. Even LESS than the 16:1 suggested in the OP, and way LESS than the 30:1 the teachers' unions would have you believe.

Whatever about the standard of journalism in the Sunday World, they got this one right. There are a lot of teachers doing very little teaching and no amount of self-entitled ranting in this thread disguises that.

I'd like you to show me a school that has a 9:1 ratio. No such things exists. Not even DEIS 1 schools have a ratio that low.

The ratios expressed in the media by the teachers unions are accurate. Even the government states that the current ratio is 25:1, being brought up to 27:1 as a result of the cutbacks.

The governments figures are on the generous side. The reality is closer to 30.

Rabies

Out of all those students quoted in the original post, how many are in school on any given day?
Holidays, sick, skipping school, dodging class?

This teacher bashing is getting boring.
With them none of you moaners would be able to type, spell, read, write or have got basic education.

Grow up!

irishvamp90

994 wrote: »

-
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- traveller teachers

Class size =|= pupil teacher ratio. And I wonder how a primary school teacher is supposed to be "on the doss" (that's not even an idiom btw, "doss" is a verb).

please tell me travellers dont get special teachers???just go to school like the rest of us.....

spurious

irishvamp90 wrote: »

please tell me travellers dont get special teachers???just go to school like the rest of us.....

In some cases they are in 'standard' schools but there are special traveller education centres also.

irishvamp90

thats a disgrace they should go to school the same as everyone else.do the teachers travel to visit them on sites?

Lockstep

It seems AH has designated a new enemy.

Teachers.

Tigger

i wonder if any teachers drive taxis in thier (copious) spare time?

they'd be popular here

ntlbell

Rabies wrote: »

Out of all those students quoted in the original post, how many are in school on any given day?
Holidays, sick, skipping school, dodging class?

This teacher bashing is getting boring.
With them none of you moaners would be able to type, spell, read, write or have got basic education.

Grow up!

If there's students out sick all the time etc then surely that brings down the ratio even further?

without me da's willy I wouldn't be able to type,spell, rear or write.

What an excellent argument.

Why did we think of this before!

RoundTower

kraggy wrote: »

I'd like you to show me a school that has a 9:1 ratio. No such things exists. Not even DEIS 1 schools have a ratio that low.

The ratios expressed in the media by the teachers unions are accurate. Even the government states that the current ratio is 25:1, being brought up to 27:1 as a result of the cutbacks.

The governments figures are on the generous side. The reality is closer to 30.

as of 2 years ago, the primary school I attended (Scoil Chaoimhin Naofa in Laragh Co. Wicklow) had something like 10 full time members of staff (4 teachers, 1 secretary, 1 resource teacher, 4 special needs assistants) and 90 pupils. When I went to school there they had 3 teachers for 80 students and nothing else. I think they've lost some of their staff since now Minister Joe Jacob retired from politics, but no doubt some other well-connected school has them instead.

edit: this isn't me cherrypicking a school with a high staff:student ratio. This was my local school, I'm sure there are lots of schools with higher and lots with lower ratios.

Lockstep

I'm just waiting for the day that a Nigerian, Polish, asylum seeking, paedophilic, dole scrounging, Fianna Fáil/public sector supporting, Muslim single mother gets a job as a teacher.

Just to see the AH reaction.

javaboy

kickoutthejams wrote: »

I'm just waiting for the day that a Nigerian, Polish, asylum seeking, paedophilic, dole scrounging, Fianna Fáil/public sector supporting, Muslim single mother gets a job as a teacher.

Just to see the AH reaction.

As long as she doesn't do cosying in her spare time, she's all right with me.

Woger

kickoutthejams wrote: »

I'm just waiting for the day that a Nigerian, Polish, asylum seeking, paedophilic, dole scrounging, Fianna Fáil/public sector supporting, Muslim single mother gets a job as a teacher.

Just to see the AH reaction.

What's Mrs Paddy Murray got to do with it?

randylonghorn

RoundTower wrote: »

as of 2 years ago, the primary school I attended (Scoil Chaoimhin Naofa in Laragh Co. Wicklow) had something like 10 full time members of staff (4 teachers, 1 secretary, 1 resource teacher, 4 special needs assistants) and 90 pupils. When I went to school there they had 3 teachers for 80 students and nothing else. I think they've lost some of their staff since now Minister Joe Jacob retired from politics, but no doubt some other well-connected school has them instead.

A secretary is not a teacher, special needs assistants are not teachers. The latter in particular tend to be linked to the existence of specific pupils assessed as having special needs within a school, rather than to the size of the school.

Was the resource teacher full-time? ... many are part-time or shared between neighbouring schools.

At most you are looking at a teacher - student ratio of between 1:18 and 1:22.5

A little accuracy would be such a welcome change in some of these threads.

That said, this particular school do seem to be doing fairly well overall, I don't know many 4 teacher schools with a full-time (?) secretary or indeed any secretary at all.

Whether that has anything to do with local political clout, I have no idea.

Catari Jaguar

RoundTower wrote: »

as of 2 years ago, the primary school I attended (Scoil Chaoimhin Naofa in Laragh Co. Wicklow) had something like 10 full time members of staff (4 teachers, 1 secretary, 1 resource teacher, 4 special needs assistants) and 90 pupils.

One teacher for junior/senior infants, one for 1st/2nd, one for 3rd/4th, one for 5th/6th class. One special needs child in each class (pretty good going) deserves an SNA. If a child has moderate/ profound special needs they will be allocated resource hours, that's where the resource teacher comes in. That makes perfect sense.

90 pupils divided by 4 teachers is 22 roughly per class.

no, it doesn't mean that. If the support teachers were only working 1 hour a week then (hopefully) the department isn't paying them to do a full time job, and they weren't counted in the OP's statistics.

It sounds like your school has a pupil:teacher ratio of 8:1 or 9:1 or something. Even LESS than the 16:1 suggested in the OP, and way LESS than the 30:1 the teachers' unions would have you believe.

Whatever about the standard of journalism in the Sunday World, they got this one right. There are a lot of teachers doing very little teaching and no amount of self-entitled ranting in this thread disguises that.

There is no such thing as a 8:1 or 9:1 ratio. There is a 15:1 ratio as I and another poster pointed out for band 1 DEIS disadvantaged schools for the junior end. I work in one of them. There are 98 pupils on roll and 6 class teachers, 2 language and 2 learning support. It's a multi grade school.

A language teacher works a FULL DAY!! They are allocated and shared between the children that need them. So could be in one classroom for 1 hour for 8 children. Then in with another teacher for another hour and then takes children in groups of 3/4 also during the day (depending on their level) and has a FULL timetable. If a child has had Lang Support for a year they count as a 1/3 of a child. A junior/senior infant with NO English counts as half a child. :rolleyes: You need 30:1 ratio to keep a LST teacher in a post. So if you have 29 "bits of children", then the teacher gets let go and those kids lose out.

Same goes for Resource and Learning Support teachers (you might know them as "remedial teachers"). They are spread out during the day and a lot of effort goes into working out allocated times e.g. OK X child (with SN) has 45 min per day allocated, take him out individually for 35 min each day and then you can add all the left over 10 minutes into one 50 min slot where that teacher comes in for a maths/ reading class with his group (in the classroom alongside the class teacher) to give extra support to the other struggling children that don't qualify for 1 -1 learning support.

**For other teachers reading this, I know it isn't 100% on board, but it's generally done anyways.

You following me?

But hey, if you want weak and struggling children to fall between the cracks then that's just fine. Very admirable of you. You fit right in with the DES. They are cutting language hours, SNAs, learning support hours and teachers left, right and centre.

Sunday World = Rag. They get nothing right, neither does that pathetic excuse for a journalist they have there.

randylonghorn

Lil Kitten wrote: »

News of the World = Rag. They get nothing right, neither does that pathetic excuse for a journalist they have there.

Sunday World.

Though the comments transfer without much difficulty ...

Catari Jaguar

randylonghorn wrote: »

Sunday World.

Though the comments transfer without much difficulty ...

Oh I apologise to News of the World. I will amend my post.

Shows how much attention I pay to those papers..

Dudess

irishvamp90 wrote: »

thats a disgrace they should go to school the same as everyone else.do the teachers travel to visit them on sites?

Many of them have to receive extra attention because of not being given the basics at home. Children in the settled community tend to be taught stuff by their parents from when they're born - many traveller children don't.

ntlbell wrote: »

getting 60k 4 months holidays a secure job and a great pension.

I know you and gurramok gleefully keep throwing around the 60K figure because it is the average teacher's salary... but you also know very well that a LOT of teachers don't earn 60K - especially young teachers, which is the demographic into which most teachers posting here fit. Yet you keep on quoting the figure in such a way that it implies ALL teachers of all ages/stages earn 60K. It's just disingenuousness at its worst and weakens your arguments. Yes, we know it's the average but that is STILL not the same as every teacher getting 60K. Maybe just quote the figure in terms of it being the average - i.e. stating it correctly.

Secondly, the other one you keep casually throwing out there: four months' holidays. Be more specific. Primary teachers do not get four months' holidays so whenever you're going to use that one, put "secondary" before "teachers". Oh and put "permanent" before "secondary". Contract teachers do not get paid in the summer.

Thirdly, "secure job"? Again, make sure to stick that one in when you're referring specifically to permanent teachers. There are a hell of a lot of teachers on contracts.

Your arguments are fairly worthless if you don't comply with the above, tbh...

kraggy

RoundTower wrote: »

as of 2 years ago, the primary school I attended (Scoil Chaoimhin Naofa in Laragh Co. Wicklow) had something like 10 full time members of staff (4 teachers, 1 secretary, 1 resource teacher, 4 special needs assistants) and 90 pupils. When I went to school there they had 3 teachers for 80 students and nothing else. I think they've lost some of their staff since now Minister Joe Jacob retired from politics, but no doubt some other well-connected school has them instead.

edit: this isn't me cherrypicking a school with a high staff:student ratio. This was my local school, I'm sure there are lots of schools with higher and lots with lower ratios.

What numbers are you actually dividing by which?

I hope you're not dividing the 90 pupils by any more than the 4 teachers? If you divide it corrrectly, that's 22.5 students to 1 teacher.

Still nowhere near the low numbers you suggested earlier.

stovelid

The Sunday World should be more careful. Drawing attention to the sheer amount of useless overpaid illiterates currently in employment, like that.

Who knows what conclusion we may all come to as a result?