[PR] Integrated Smart Card Ticketing In Greater Dublin Area

Victor

http://www.rpa.ie/en/news/Pages/IntegratedSmartCardTicketingInGreaterDublinArea.aspx

Integrated Smart Card Ticketing In Greater Dublin Area
Integrated Smart Card Ticketing in the Greater Dublin Area

Technology
The integrated ticketing system in the Greater Dublin Area is being introduced on a phased basis, based on smart card technology, over the period to the end of 2010. A progressive approach is being adopted to allow customers to familiarise themselves with using the new system and to permit transport operators to undertake the necessary replacement of magnetic strip technology, the testing of smart cards and the integration of the various technologies involved.

All the Luas network and Dublin Bus fleet have been fitted with smart card readers. The fitting of smart card readers is underway at Irish Rail commuter stations and this work will be completed over the coming months, as will the installation of new gating systems for entry and exit validation of tickets.

Smart Cards
At present, customers can use pre-loaded smart cards to pay for travel on Luas. (www.luas.ie)

In the case of Dublin Bus, the following Dublin Bus only ticket products are available on Smart Card Tickets ([url]www.dublinbus.ie):[/url]

Annual and Monthly Tickets
Annual Bus Travelwide
Rambler Tickets
Rambler Adult Tickets (1 day, 3 day, 5 day & 30 day)
Rambler Child 5 day Ticket (u16yrs)
10 Journey, Travel 90 Adult
10 Journey, Travel 90 Schoolchild (u 16yrs)
10 Journey, Travel 90 Scholar (16 - 18yrs)

Integrated Smart Card Tickets (Dublin Bus, Luas and Irish Rail)

The following integrated tickets are currently available for transferring from Dublin Bus to Irish Rail or to Luas :
Annual Bus & Rail Short Hop

Annual Bus & Luas

Travelwide Adult Monthly

Bus & Luas Adult Monthly

See www.dublinbus.ie

The next step will be the launch by Irish Rail of an interim smart card scheme from late this summer. This smart card will offer a number of ticket products to be announced at the time of launch.

Following that, it is planned later this year to commence the introduction of a single smart card on a progressive basis for Dublin Bus and Luas services which will have electronic purse capability. This capability will allow a pay-as-you-go system, similar to the systems used for mobile phones. The electronic purse capability will go live early next year and will facilitate cashless travel on services of all participating operators.

The single smart card, with electronic purse capability, will then replace the interim smart cards and will be extended to Irish Rail - DART and commuter rail services- later next year.

Discussions are being held with private bus operators in relation to their participating in the scheme over this timeframe.

During 2010, Bus Éireann will introduce the single smart card system on a pilot basis on a number of its commuter routes within the Greater Dublin Area. The Company will then evaluate the feasibility of extending the scheme to include its whole network in the Greater Dublin Area.

Accordingly, during 2010 smartcards with an electronic purse will be available to almost all public transport users in the Greater Dublin Area.

While the current scope and focus of the single smart card scheme is the Greater Dublin Area, the mandate for the scheme is national in scope. The potential to develop a nationwide ticket, starting with at Cork and Galway will then be examined.

Click here for more information on Integrated Ticketing Scheme

rameire

about time.

also you might want to put that article in the conspiracy theory forum,
hopefully will frighten them out of the country.

L1011

Does this actually mean you can use one smartcard monthly bus/luas ticket to tag on both systems now? Or is this just restating the same stuff as before and the Luas inspectors will actually just check it based on date...

bk

Anyone know how a purse based system will work on Dublin Bus?

1) Dublin Bus and DoT introduce a single fare for smart cards no matter how far you travel, ala London Bus (very unlikely).

2) When you get on the bus, you tell the driver the charge you want and he deducts just that (completely misses the point of Smart cards).

3) You tag on getting on the bus and tag off getting off again. (better then option 2, but nowhere near as good as option 1, will still cause some delays at stops).

It seems that they still aren't going to do real integration, where you can jump off one service and jump onto another service, with a daily cap, etc.

markpb

bk wrote: »

Anyone know how a purse based system will work on Dublin Bus?

From what I've read (here), if you tap onto the reader, a default ticket (€1.60 I think) will be charged. If you want to pay less, you have to go to the driver, tell him the amount and then tap the card on the ticket machine.

murphaph

markpb wrote: »

From what I've read (here), if you tap onto the reader, a default ticket (€1.60 I think) will be charged. If you want to pay less, you have to go to the driver, tell him the amount and then tap the card on the ticket machine.

How very user unfriendly. Didn't expect anything better to be honest. I suppose at least when the physical infrastructure is in place and all operators accept this not-so-smart card, the pressure can be applied to make it into something really like Oyster etc. Smart card != integrated fares, just integrated ticketing.

bk

markpb wrote: »

From what I've read (here), if you tap onto the reader, a default ticket (€1.60 I think) will be charged. If you want to pay less, you have to go to the driver, tell him the amount and then tap the card on the ticket machine.

Well €1.60 would be fine as that is the 2nd cheapest fare, most people probably already pay this fare or higher, really only the short hop journeys are cheaper, which very few people take.

The problem will be if it is the €2.20 fare or even the €4.50 outer suburban fare, then most people would go to the driver.

Of course with all this, I'm assuming the €1.60 fare is a legal fare even if it was a €2.20 cash fare.

murphaph wrote:

I suppose at least when the physical infrastructure is in place and all operators accept this not-so-smart card, the pressure can be applied to make it into something really like Oyster etc. Smart card != integrated fares, just integrated ticketing.

I don't think all of this is a bad idea at all, it is breaking the project down into more manageable and easier to implement phases and allows people to get use to it. My only complaint is that they should have started doing it this way 5 years ago and we might have had integrated fares by now.

Stevek101

You should pay €1.60 for ninety minutes of travel then pay no more than €6 in one day.

Slice

They could just fit bus stops with tag readers that only allow you to tag off. That would reduce the likelihood of people queueing to tag off when exiting the bus...

markpb

Slice wrote: »

They could just fit bus stops with tag readers that only allow you to tag off. That would reduce the likelihood of people queueing to tag off when exiting the bus...

It would be hugely expensive. There are (I think) 11,000 bus stops in the city and they'd all have to have readers. Depending on the system being used, those readers might all have to be networked to the back-office too.

The simplest solution is a flat fair charged on entry to the bus. Very quick, very simple, no messing about and no delays getting off.

Colm R

Stevek101 wrote: »

You should pay €1.60 for ninety minutes of travel then pay no more than €6 in one day.

Or no more than the price of a weekly ticket in a week, or more than than the price of monthly ticket in a month or more than the price of a yearly ticket in a year. Its simple really!

Carawaystick

The fact Bus Éireann are not committed to this says it all really, it's a joke. If the 4 state owned public transport companies cannot be forced to get this working together, then the thing's a joke.

Also the fact it doesn't seem to easily allow a 1 fare trip anywhere between two points in the Dublin area is telling.

Also there seems no compunction to force private operators to use the system to continue/renew their license.

markpb

Carawaystick wrote: »

Also there seems no compunction to force private operators to use the system to continue/renew their license.

I would imagine the private operators would be falling over themselves to get access to this card - it would make it much easier for people to switch between services.

bk

Slice wrote: »

They could just fit bus stops with tag readers that only allow you to tag off. That would reduce the likelihood of people queueing to tag off when exiting the bus...

Very expensive to do, I'd imagine it would probably cheaper just to take the hit of introducing a single (cheap) flat fare for smart card users, like London Bus.

Colm R

Carawaystick wrote: »

The fact Bus Éireann are not committed to this says it all really, it's a joke. If the 4 state owned public transport companies cannot be forced to get this working together, then the thing's a joke.

There was a peice in the Local Ashborne rag a few months back that Bus Eireann were going to be trialing the smart card on the 103. How true this is - who knows.

Chris_533976

Why dont they just blatently copy the oyster card for gods sake? Its a fantastic system and if you take a pile of different modalities, it charges you the cheapest it can. The stupid idiocy they're one again proposing here once again illustrates the need to completely overhaul the idiots who run public transport in this country.

bk

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Why dont they just blatently copy the oyster card for gods sake? Its a fantastic system and if you take a pile of different modalities, it charges you the cheapest it can. The stupid idiocy they're one again proposing here once again illustrates the need to completely overhaul the idiots who run public transport in this country.

The problem isn't technology, our smart cards use the exact same tech as oyster. The problem is that the various transport companies couldn't agree how to divide up the revenue from an oyster type system.

What we need is some real leadership, for someone to go in and smash their heads together and remind them all that they are owned by the Irish people.

Chris_533976

But surely the data output by the system says "Person got on bus here and got off bus here, pay money to Bus Eireann".

It just stinks of "Irish way, cant be bothered to do it properly"

markpb

Chris_533976 wrote: »

But surely the data output by the system says "Person got on bus here and got off bus here, pay money to Bus Eireann".

It just stinks of "Irish way, cant be bothered to do it properly"

That's the simplest case. How does it work for Dublin Bus? What about other private bus operators? What happens if someone makes two trips on DB, should they pay full fare for both trips? If they get a discount, where does the money to make up the loss come from?

Also, if memory serves, one of the main areas of disagreement was about the branding of the card. Each of the operators involved wanted their own logo to be most prominent and couldn't agree. Lastly, there's also the problem of where you buy the cards and where you load value or tickets onto them? That infrastructure is very expensive and someone needs to pay for it.

edanto

bk wrote: »

The problem isn't technology, our smart cards use the exact same tech as oyster. The problem is that the various transport companies couldn't agree how to divide up the revenue from an oyster type system.

Do you know any more details about that? I mean it's a bit embarassing to me that management would be so knuckleheaded in any company that they couldn't negotiate something like that.

Do you know were there many meetings, who was at them, were there any reports?

Just interested in the details!

Chris_533976

markpb wrote: »

That's the simplest case. How does it work for Dublin Bus? What about other private bus operators? What happens if someone makes two trips on DB, should they pay full fare for both trips? If they get a discount, where does the money to make up the loss come from?

Also, if memory serves, one of the main areas of disagreement was about the branding of the card. Each of the operators involved wanted their own logo to be most prominent and couldn't agree. Lastly, there's also the problem of where you buy the cards and where you load value or tickets onto them? That infrastructure is very expensive and someone needs to pay for it.

Again though, it has been sorted out and works in London, why should there be so much fuss here? If you really sit down and think about it, the fact that it works over there but for some magical reason cant be done here is utterly utterly daft.

icdg

markpb wrote: »

Also, if memory serves, one of the main areas of disagreement was about the branding of the card. Each of the operators involved wanted their own logo to be most prominent and couldn't agree. Lastly, there's also the problem of where you buy the cards and where you load value or tickets onto them? That infrastructure is very expensive and someone needs to pay for it.

This could have been the very job for a Dublin Transport Authority. Unfortunately the Government have (having already passed the DTA Act) decided to turn the DTA into something quite different (a national public transport regulator) and any focus it might have been able to give to sorting out the transport system in Dublin will probably be lost.

In London its simple - despite lots of companies operating bus services, and ten or so railway operators, the only logos you'll see on tickets in London are the Transport for London logo, or if the ticket was issued by a train company, the British Rail logo (and occassionally even both together). The Oyster card only has a large Transport for London logo on it.

KC61

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Why dont they just blatently copy the oyster card for gods sake? Its a fantastic system and if you take a pile of different modalities, it charges you the cheapest it can. The stupid idiocy they're one again proposing here once again illustrates the need to completely overhaul the idiots who run public transport in this country.

It also costs an awful lot more....I think that might be a factor?

Don't get me wrong, I would prefer an Oyster style setup but I don't think our politicians are prepared to go that far.

Look what happened when businesses objected to the city centre bus gate - the pro-public transport plans suddenly get watered down.

Carawaystick

markpb wrote: »

I would imagine the private operators would be falling over themselves to get access to this card - it would make it much easier for people to switch between services.

There's no mention in the rpa's spin/blurb/press-release on this.

There's also no mention of automagically capping the maximum daily/weekly/monthly/annual fare

and there was only vague mutterings by Bus Éireann about trialling it on a limited number of services. The Ashbourne and Naas type places which are closer to Dublin than other places DB serve should obviously be trialled.

bk

Carawaystick wrote: »

There's also no mention of automagically capping the maximum daily/weekly/monthly/annual fare

No, it doesn't look like Integrated fares is happening, basically just a smart card system, with minimum integrated ticketing (pretty much the existing monthly/annual integrated tickets on smart card), plus a new wallet system with no sharing amongst services or maximum fares.

Basically the bare minimum and avoids all the difficult profit sharing decisions that would otherwise need to be made.

Carawaystick wrote: »

and there was only vague mutterings by Bus Éireann about trialling it on a limited number of services. The Ashbourne and Naas type places which are closer to Dublin than other places DB serve should obviously be trialled.

Well in fairness, this system is supposed to be primarily for the Dublin Commuter region and not long distance services.

However in time I hope it can spread to all public transport in the country.

If the Irish transport companies had even a little bit of sense, they could have formed a joint company to support this, in conjunction with someone like Visa, to implement a cashless, small transaction system that could also be used in shops to buy papers, etc. and they could have profited from it.

Rawr

I'm disappointed that the smart card system will be limited to a electronic purse.

When I hear the phrase 'Integrated Ticketing', I imagine a range of tickets that can be used throughout the entire transport network of a city. As opposed to a means of just paying for 3/4 different types of ticket to 3/4 different companies, on each of their respective price plans.

It should be possible to simply purchase a Daily, Monthly, Weekly, or Annual ticket for...Dublin. Just a ticket for transport in Dublin, none of this 'Bus and Rail', 'Rail and Luas', or 'Luas and Bus' nonsense that has been on tickets for so long.

I currently live in Oslo. In this city, all bus, rail, metro, and trams are run by individual companies who complete with each other. However, despite that, they share an operating company with the city itself, with common branding, marketing...and tickets. When I purchase a weekly ticket here, it covers travel on all modes within the city for that week, regardless of what combination of services I use.

Many other European cities have this too, and ultimately, I believe that Dublin needs this, if these smart cards are to ever succeed.

I feel that just having Electronic Purses on the cards, will do little to persuade people away from using cash...even if it offered a discount.

Carawaystick

bk wrote: »

Well in fairness, this system is supposed to be primarily for the Dublin Commuter region and not long distance services.

Dublin bus run services to Balbriggan and Kilcoole and Newtownmountkennedy. All of these are further from Dublin than Ashbourne