Metallica - S&M (10 year anniversary)

Xavi6

Today and tomorrow (April 21st/22nd) sees the 10 year anniversary of the recording of one of the best albums of all time.

I was 14 when it was released in November 1999 and had never really gotten into Metallica before, but after listening to this my mind was opened and I've been a fan ever since.

Pretty much every song is superb, with the orchestra making some classics more epic than they already were.

Any other big S&M (the album, not the kinky shizzle!) fans?

buck65

No, sorry man , this is -apart from the odd track- a brutal release.
The orchestration is samey for all the tracks and adds little. I like classical music and feel that there could have been more of a sense of dread or suspense but the combination here sucks.
After the weak Load and Reload, Metallica continued to decline with this release. They probably consider themselves pioneers with this release but in fairness there is little experimentation tolerated by the band here.

that dude

buck65 wrote: »

No, sorry man , this is -apart from the odd track- a brutal release.
The orchestration is samey for all the tracks and adds little. I like classical music and feel that there could have been more of a sense of dread or suspense but the combination here sucks.
After the weak Load and Reload, Metallica continued to decline with this release. They probably consider themselves pioneers with this release but in fairness there is little experimentation tolerated by the band here.

Totally disagree, I thought it was a brilliant release! although I do think they could have played more of the well known/better Metallica songs, less off the Load/ReLoad albums.. Something off Justice maybe? Creeping Death? I reckon The Unforgiven could have been amazing, but what can you do.

This album did open my eyes to some songs that i wouldn't have even considered listening to b4. Outlaw Torn, not my cup of tea on Load, but i could listen to it for days on this. Same with Until It Sleeps/Hero of The Day.

And whether or not the Orchestra worked, it's most definatly a good live album, the sound is fantastic. After the Load/ReLoad album this got me back into Metallica.

Kess73

As someone who grew up with Metallica in the early 80's I actually had high hopes for this album when it came out.


I was expecting the music to sound bigger and more epic, but what I got was Metallica letting an orchestra play along with them in a very controlled manner, and not venturing anywhere near being experimental. It still feels like a very cynical release to me, even to this day, a very calculated attempt to be seen as a cultured band. I can still remember Lars giving interview after interview trying to pass himself off as an expert on classical music, and continuing his quest to be seen as some kind of high brow intellectual.


I think as the years went by after 1991, he ,more than the poor music they have released at times since that date, has put me off Metallica in a big way.


I still love what I regard as the best of Metallica, '83 to '91, and in the years from '92 to '09 there is probably about an album or so worth of songs that can stand with the old stuff.


Hmmm I might have a look at that later and see if I can make a playlist for my ipod that I would actually listen to over and over from the '92 to '09 period.

smooch71

S&M was Metallica's big, self indulgent, Spinal Tap moment.

Still enjoyed thought I have to admit

Malice

Xavi6 wrote: »

one of the best albums of all time.

It's not a bad album but it's far from one of the best of all time. I thought the orchestral parts were interesting but to my ears at least they tended to clash a bit with the guitar parts and in some cases sounded like they were added in for the hell of it rather than to add to the sound.

Having said that, I'd say it would have been a great concert to experience live!

Kess73

smooch71 wrote: »

S&M was Metallica's big, self indulgent, Spinal Tap moment.

Still enjoyed thought I have to admit

What does that make Some Kind Of Monster? Their Desperate Housewives moment?

buck65

More like fupping Eastenders

Otis Driftwood

For me S+M was the final nail in the coffin of the Metallica I loved.

Owen

I hated S&M, I'm a classically trained violinist, and have played in Orchestras, as well as being a self trained rock musician - my opinion of S&M was that the Orchestra were supposed to be there to compliment the band, instead there was just noise. Occassionally they worked together, but instead of having a nice counterpoint melody, it was just cacophony and not the Jason Becker kind.

rovert

ned78 wrote: »

I hated S&M, I'm a classically trained violinist, and have played in Orchestras, as well as being a self trained rock musician - my opinion of S&M was that the Orchestra were supposed to be there to compliment the band, instead there was just noise. Occassionally they worked together, but instead of having a nice counterpoint melody, it was just cacophony and not the Jason Becker kind.

QFT

120_Minutes

some songs worked, most didnt.

ShawnRaven

I think S&M was an overambitious project that fell flat on it's face. Songs like The Outlaw Torn and Hero Of The Day worked really with Kamen's arrangement, but the faster songs like Fuel were painful to listen to.

It was definitely an interesting idea at the time, and was worth listening. But it aged very quick, and very badly in my honest opinion.
The fact that the band were in limbo and didn't quite know what to do with themselves at that period didn't help matters much either.

That_Guy

Didn't like this at all. Thought it was a complete waste of my money. Good idea but I don't think it worked that well. That's just my opinion though.

faceman

I didnt like this. I dont blame Metallica though, i blame Kamen. He was given free run to do what he wanted. It was a wasted opportunity. In most songs the orchestra played like a backing track rather than doing anything for the music. There were some moments that worked, but not on every track.

I would have preferred if they have colluded together rather than seperately.

Xavi6

malice_ wrote: »

It's not a bad album but it's far from one of the best of all time.

Yeah that should've been 'best LIVE albums'. My bad

ShawnRaven

Xavi6 wrote: »

Yeah that should've been 'best LIVE albums'. My bad

Still can't agree here, especially as Metallica have had much better live sets before this. And as live albums period, I can think of several metal, mainstream and rock albums that would blow S&M out of the water in my honest opinion.

It was a cool concept, but it was just executed very poorly, for reasons stated by ned78 and faceman.

D.Q

Really love this album. Couldn't say a bad thing about it.

Im not classically educated and all that, but I know what sounds good to me, and this does.

Rockee

Leaving out 'Fade To Black' baffled me at the time! Someone above mentioned 'Fuel'. I think that sounded quite crap and only played cos it was off Reload which was still their latest studio effort.

Plus side, definitely 'The Call Of Ktulu' 'Of Wolf And Man' 'Hero Of The Day' 'Bleeding Me' 'The Outlaw Torn' and the orchestras intro to 'Battery.'

ShawnRaven

Rockee wrote: »

Someone above mentioned 'Fuel'. I think that sounded quite crap and only played cos it was off Reload which was still their latest studio effort.

That would have been me. And that particular version of Fuel, as stated earlier, really was quite painful to hear violins sound like someone strangling cats.

One thing I will give that show credit for, it's a lot more interesting to watch, rather than listen to. Worth the DVD watch at least.

seachto7

songs that suited the strings were great. unforgiven, nothing else matters. the rest, I thought, were rubbish....

guinnessdrinker

I'd really like to see a blu ray release of the video. I think the high def surround sound would really suit the classical arrangements because on the cd realease, it could be just me but I think that a lot of the time the orchestra just seems to get drowned out by Metallica's sound.

ShawnRaven

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

I'd really like to see a blu ray release of the video. I think the high def surround sound would really suit the classical arrangements because on the cd realease, it could be just me but I think that a lot of the time the orchestra just seems to get drowned out by Metallica's sound.

Given that it was shot 10 years ago, you won't benefit that much from it as it would have been shot in 720p anyway, and any PS3, 360 or HDMI DVD player will upscale it to 1080p anyway, which is essentially all the blu-ray release will do anyway.

You're probably right on the sound, but a blu-ray release would be overkill for those reasons, and nothing a remastered CD wouldn't fix. Be a lot more cost effective too.

GLaDOS

Average at best, if you want good symphonic metal listen to Nightwish or Trans-Siberian Orchestra

Dark Artist

Come on now, lads, you can't be serious. I never tire of this album. I think it's absolutely whopper. I definitely disagree with whoever said that the orchestra didn't add anything to the songs. I felt that it added a whole other dimension to songs like Master of Puppets.

Fuel is another amazing performance from this record. I really don't know where the majority of you are coming from with all this. Granted, there are indeed a few missed opportunities regarding song choice and some other grey areas, but overall it's a pretty damn impressive spectacle, and that's an understatement. I mean... One, for example..... hello, people.....

LD 50

I gotta say, this is absolutely one of my favourite album. I prefer the second disc to the first. I don't like the last 4 songs on the 1st disc that much. But I love all of them on disc 2. One is epic.

ShawnRaven

Dark Artist wrote: »

Come on now, lads, you can't be serious. I never tire of this album. I think it's absolutely whopper. I definitely disagree with whoever said that the orchestra didn't add anything to the songs. I felt that it added a whole other dimension to songs like Master of Puppets.

Fuel is another amazing performance from this record. I really don't know where the majority of you are coming from with all this. Granted, there are indeed a few missed opportunities regarding song choice and some other grey areas, but overall it's a pretty damn impressive spectacle, and that's an understatement. I mean... One, for example..... hello, people.....

Ugh, Apocolyptica pulled it off way better than Kamen did on 4 cellos!
Also if you want a better demonstration of how Metal and Symphony work well together (other than ScienceNerd's suggestions).

Two words - After Forever.
But seriously, S&M is junk by comparison.

Dark Artist

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Ugh, Apocolyptica pulled it off way better than Kamen did on 4 cellos!
Also if you want a better demonstration of how Metal and Symphony work well together (other than ScienceNerd's suggestions).

Two words - After Forever.
But seriously, S&M is junk by comparison.

I'm very familiar with After Forever, in fact they're on of my favourite bands. I can't see how S&M is junk by comparison. Of course the songs of bands like After Forever work better with symphonic parts, but those songs were written with the symphony in mind, so it's not fair to compare them to the S&M show where the orchestra had to be adapted to songs written years ago. Taking that into consideration, you have to hand it to Metallica that they made a good stab at it, at the very least.

lord lucan

Good album but nothing to set the world on fire tbh. It was heavily worked on in the studio before being released,guitar solos and vocals were overdubbed etc. I've listened to some bootlegs of the shows from MSG and there's quite a difference between them and the album version. The guitars overwhelm the orchestra in the mix.

Favourite tune on it is BELLZ,sounds epic with an orchestra. Tbh they should have stuck with RTL/MOP's stuff for it,them songs lend themselves much better to it than LOAD/RELOAD tracks.Again i think it was metallica doing something different for the want of doing something different.

CrazyTalk

Don't get all the hate for this album, it's the only Metallica release I'd still listen to, ever since I kinda grew out of them when I, y'know, stopped being a teenager. :P

brianthebard

First album by metallica I listened to years ago, and put me off them for ages! Wasn't until I went back and heard stuff like Master of puppets that I started to like what they had done before.