Dublin City car ban

DWCommuter

From rte.ie

Dublin city car ban may be scaled back

Tuesday, 21 April 2009 09:07

Dublin city officials are offering to scale back plans for a city centre car ban following complaints from businesses.
78% of submissions received during public consultation were opposed to the planned bus gate at College Green.
The issue is to be considered during a special meeting of the council's transport committee today.


The opposition came mainly from retailers and car park owners who fear loss of business if cars are stopped from travelling to or from Dame Street at College Green.
A study carried out for the city council revealed that car users spend more - €118 on average compared to just €49 for non-car users.
The council argued for the bus gate pointing out that College Green is a major pinch-point for Dublin bus services and 40% of all routes travel using this area.
However, city centre businesses pointed out that shoppers who use cars travel mainly off-peak.
Council officials are now proposing three options - a 24-hour bus gate, a 12-hour ban from 7am to 7pm or restrictions just during the morning and evening rush hours.

paulm17781

I saw this, note it's all about a car ban. If I'm not mistaken it was a route change. A route change that probably would have made the city more pleasant but scare tactics and calling it a car ban have stopped it. :mad:

dmeehan

the business that objected should ask traders on grafton and henry streets if the absense of cars has adversely affected their bottom line

i would think not!


who is running the city anyway, the city council or the cranky traders?

bazzer

Typical of this country. Any good ideas nearly always end in some sort of fudge because of moaners.

Samson

dmeehan wrote: »

who is running the city anyway, the city council or the cranky traders?

Don't the cranky traders fund the city council to a large degree?

Jip

bazzer wrote: »

Typical of this country. Any good ideas nearly always end in some sort of fudge because of moaners.

Now that's funny, a good idea ? There's threads all over boards.ie raising valid points and why exactly this is not a good idea.

RATM

Why is it in this country that when a good idea comes along we can never implement it without it being watered down so much that its no longer a good idea?

Does anyone know the name of the FG councilor who has come out against this plan ?

markpb

RTE wrote: »

A study carried out for the city council revealed that car users spend more - €118 on average compared to just €49 for non-car users.
The council argued for the bus gate pointing out that College Green is a major pinch-point for Dublin bus services and 40% of all routes travel using this area.

I'd love to know how this survey was carried out. Do shopkeepers ask anyone else how they travelled to their shop that day? I've certainly not been asked.

I've just about given up on this country, we'll never make any progress. The Dart in 1984 was the last time anyone made a serious decision about public transport and I'm sure it was an accident.

paulm17781

There were groups set up on Facebook (by a friend) against the bus gateway. It was pretty much reported as an all out ban when really it was a new set of diversions. Living in the city centre, I can tell you it would have made it much more pleasant and probably brought more people in. We have an ability not to see the big picture in this country. AFIAK, they objected to Grafton st. being pedestrianised too.

bazzer

Jip wrote: »

Now that's funny, a good idea ? There's threads all over boards.ie raising valid points and why exactly this is not a good idea.

Well, I think it IS a good idea, no matter how many threads there are to the contrary.

doolox

It is really a question of convenience. If people go to town on foot they will be very concious of their ability to carry weight and will not buy as much as a car user might buy.
For most items this is not a problem but for heavy items such as furniture and the like it is a problem.
Anything that gets in the way of that vital purchasing decision should be avoided.
You will see more people going to out-of-town shopping centres for their heavy purchases and using Dublin city centre only for entertainment and highly specialised purchases (Educational books etc...).

paulm17781

doolox wrote: »

If people go to town on foot

This is my point. There was never a car ban. It was about redirecting traffic from other parts of the city.

markpb

doolox wrote: »

It is really a question of convenience. If people go to town on foot they will be very concious of their ability to carry weight and will not buy as much as a car user might buy.
For most items this is not a problem but for heavy items such as furniture and the like it is a problem.
Anything that gets in the way of that vital purchasing decision should be avoided.
You will see more people going to out-of-town shopping centres for their heavy purchases and using Dublin city centre only for entertainment and highly specialised purchases (Educational books etc...).

That's exactly the type of stupid misunderstanding that's going to bring this plan to a crashing halt.

- It's not a city centre car ban. It removes cars from certain streets. They will still have full access to the car parks, just via a different route.

- They did not have access to park (or stop) on those streets so access to shops on those streets won't change. People can't pull up outside a shop on Dame st to load their heavy purchases so not being allowed drive on the street won't make any difference.

- What retailers on College Green or Dame St currently sell such heavy items that people on foot can't carry them?

- How do the traders on Henry St, Grafton St or Oxford St in London get by without private car access? They must be dying...

paulm17781

How do we submit to DCC? I couldn't see anything on the site.

It strikes me that we need to do this and make it clear to DCC that all the objections think (because of good / bad marketing) that this is a ban and don't realise it is simply a new traffic lay out, that makes the city more pedestrian friendly and more pleasant.

markpb

The list of people on the Transport committee is here. Once you have their names, put them into Hoogle and you should get email addresses for most of them.

I think the open consultation email address is qbnoffice@dublincity.ie although it may be too late if the committee are discussing it today.

paulm17781

markpb wrote: »

although it may be too late if the committee are discussing it today.

I didn't realise they were discussing it today. I'd like to think their common sense will prevail and they'll realise that most objectors didn't fully understand it, I'd say this is unlikely though.

godtabh

markpb wrote: »

- It's not a city centre car ban. It removes cars from certain streets. They will still have full access to the car parks, just via a different route.

The alterantive routes will severly impact the ability to access some car parks. The new acess routes are not suitbale for the the type and volume of usage.

That side of it does not appear to have been well thought out

godtabh

paulm17781 wrote: »

How do we submit to DCC? I couldn't see anything on the site.

It strikes me that we need to do this and make it clear to DCC that all the objections think (because of good / bad marketing) that this is a ban and don't realise it is simply a new traffic lay out, that makes the city more pedestrian friendly and more pleasant.

The deadline for submissions was the 27th of March

antoinolachtnai

Pulling it a bit to one side, I always thought that if they stopped taxis from taking the left turn at the bottom of Nassau St, it would make a big difference to journey times for Northbound traffic without too much disruption.

paulm17781

kearnsr wrote: »

The deadline for submissions was the 27th of March

I knew it was originally but I had thought the "reviewing this" option had delayed it. Misunderstanding on my part.

markpb

It just occurred to me yesterday that DB made no effort at all to sell this to the general public. DCBA put a lot of time and effort into the media campaign against it and yet the people who would benefit most from this, didn't say a word. Doesn't inspire much confidence in them, does it?

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Pulling it a bit to one side, I always thought that if they stopped taxis from taking the left turn at the bottom of Nassau St, it would make a big difference to journey times for Northbound traffic without too much disruption.

Where do you mean? Nassau onto what street?

bazzer

markpb wrote: »

It just occurred to me yesterday that DB made no effort at all to sell this to the general public. DCBA put a lot of time and effort into the media campaign against it and yet the people who would benefit most from this, didn't say a word. Doesn't inspire much confidence in them, does it?

I would say that's down to the fact that over the years, DCC and DB have never been the best of friends. Sounds ridiculous, but it's true.

DB have had to fight very hard to get simple things like bus lanes considered in many city centre areas, so it wouldn't surprise me if they had just lost heart in trying to lobby DCC any more. How long did it take for the complete North Quays QBC to come into existence? About twenty years? In DCC terms, that's fast-tracking.

lostexpectation

would there really not be enough cars to fill the city centre cars parks if the original proposed restrictions was put in palce

Victor

doolox wrote: »

It is really a question of convenience. If people go to town on foot they will be very concious of their ability to carry weight and will not buy as much as a car user might buy.
For most items this is not a problem but for heavy items such as furniture and the like it is a problem.
Anything that gets in the way of that vital purchasing decision should be avoided.
You will see more people going to out-of-town shopping centres for their heavy purchases and using Dublin city centre only for entertainment and highly specialised purchases (Educational books etc...).

How often do you buy furniture? How often do you buy furniture in the city centre?

markpb wrote: »

The list of people on the Transport committee is here. Once you have their names, put them into Hoogle and you should get email addresses for most of them.

I think the open consultation email address is qbnoffice@dublincity.ie although it may be too late if the committee are discussing it today.

You can contact the councillors here: http://www.dublincity.ie/YourCouncil/Councillors/YourLocalCouncillors/Pages/FindYourLocalCouncillorsHome.aspx - no harm in dropping thema line. I imagine it still has to go in front of the full council.

A study carried out for the city council revealed that car users spend more - €118 on average compared to just €49 for non-car users.

Of course, how many people driving down College Green are actually going shopping? And how many are just avoiding the north quays?

RATM wrote: »

Does anyone know the name of the FG councilor who has come out against this plan ?

Gerry Breen

markpb wrote: »

Where do you mean? Nassau onto what street?

I think he means from Dawson Street to Nassua Street / Suffolk Street.

godtabh

Victor wrote: »

You can contact the councillors here: http://www.dublincity.ie/YourCouncil/Councillors/YourLocalCouncillors/Pages/FindYourLocalCouncillorsHome.aspx - no harm in dropping thema line. I imagine it still has to go in front of the full council.

This is done under the roads act (cant remember which one) as opposed to Part 8 Planning so the councillors can comment on it but the final decision goes to the city manager

paulm17781

It's being implemented for rush hour. Disappointing but something.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0511/bus.html

godtabh

paulm17781 wrote: »

It's being implemented for rush hour. Disappointing but something.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0511/bus.html

Disappointing in what sense?

Ste.phen

that it wasn't more far reaching

cormie

paulm17781 wrote: »

It's being implemented for rush hour. Disappointing but something.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0511/bus.html

This only mentions private cars, does this mean commercial vans wont be affected?

markpb

cormie wrote: »

This only mentions private cars, does this mean commercial vans wont be affected?

As far as I know, anyone who needs access will be allowed entry so commercial vans making deliveries to the restricted area should be fine. Of course, whether it will be enforced or not is a different matter.

dereko1969

The minutes aren't up on the council's website yet, but does anyone know who the dirty dozen were that voted against the public transportation gate?