Sacked junior ministers to get golden handshake

r0nanf

The five junior ministers whose jobs are being axed by the Taoiseach are reportedly set to get a generous golden parachute.

Taoiseach Brian Cowen is set to reduce the number of junior ministers from 20 to 15 tomorrow as part of measures to reduce public spending.

The move is likely to save the taxpayer at least €2.5m per year.

However, reports this morning say each of the five ministers losing their jobs will get payments of up to €53,000 to compensate them for loss of earnings.

The revelations follows the news that the plan to abolish long-service payments to TDs and Senators will only be applied in the future and will not affect politicians who already receive such payments.

Source: breakingnews.ie

oscarBravo

Doesn't anyone read the charter anymore?

This is a discussion forum, not a copy-and-paste-from-a-news-site forum. Discuss the issue.

Het-Field

This was the first issue I raised when the story broke two weeks ago.

There was no way any Minister was going to go "quietly".

This is another strain on the public purse, with no valid example being shown by our elected representatives.

r0nanf

Sorry, but I'm sure you can pretty much guess what I would say...

This is outrageous. I don't give two hats of sh*t how much the 5 ministers will be down due to losing their posts, they earn enough already. Isn't there supposed to be something vocational in the desire to be a politician? Serve the country's best interests et al? On top of the non-follow through of long service payment abolishment this is a joke.

It absolutely galls me. I am going to my bank (one of the bailed out ones) tomorrow morning with cap in hand to get bridging finance to help me through the summer. If I don't get it my business is dead, and my last 8 years of graft go out the window. Am I supposed to feel sorry for Martin Mansergh losing his JM post (which I hope he does the smug little...) ???

DrumSteve

they are being put out of a job arent they? so in effect they are getting redundency payments?

if i was put of my job i wouldn't a) go quietly or b) expect no redundency payment. Its all well and good being outraged and whatnot but i severly doubt 99% of the people here would reject that payment.

that said i dont particularly agree with it however i understand why they got it. they were sacked.

ixtlan

I agree with DrumSteve.

In the current circumstances I think the junior ministers should reject the payment, but there's no easy way out of them being entitled to it.

They are just like pretty much every employee in the country. They have contract of a sort, stating their entitlements. It's legally difficult to reverse such contracts. Not impossible perhaps, but should we be wasting time on this? Let them volunteer to give up the payments and give a hard time to those who don't.

Ix.

Belfast

r0nanf wrote: »

The five junior ministers whose jobs are being axed by the Taoiseach are reportedly set to get a generous golden parachute.

Taoiseach Brian Cowen is set to reduce the number of junior ministers from 20 to 15 tomorrow as part of measures to reduce public spending.

The move is likely to save the taxpayer at least €2.5m per year.

However, reports this morning say each of the five ministers losing their jobs will get payments of up to €53,000 to compensate them for loss of earnings.

The revelations follows the news that the plan to abolish long-service payments to TDs and Senators will only be applied in the future and will not affect politicians who already receive such payments.

Source: breakingnews.ie

€53,000 is peanuts compared to the €20,000,000,000 whole in the public finances or the €90,000,000,000 Bad Bank Quango.

Issues like this seem to be to be a distraction for the big money being wasted or misspent.

How much money the Taoiseach earns is not that important. edit (€220,792)

How much the Taoiseach gets from private sources after he leaves office and is it for past favours do in office is of more interest to me.

The Taoiseach may earn more than the American President. This is only part of the story.
The Salaries of the Presidential and Vice Presidential Salaries have been in decline for some time.
In 1969 the Presidential Salary was $200,000 with $50,000 taxable expense account
and stayed at $200,000 until 2001 when it was raised to $400,000

Inflation adjusted the Salary is a lot lower than it was in 1969.

Presidential and Vice Presidential Salaries
Exclusive of Perquisites table of Salaries from 1789 to the present
http://www.lib.umich.edu/govdocs/fedprssal.html

I think the large amount of money that President Bill Clinton made after he left the white house is more important than any Salary the Presidential of America makes.

President Bill Clinton, earned $109 million between 2000 and 2007
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/eye-on-2008/clinton-releases-tax-returns.html

roosterman71

Belfast wrote: »

How much money the Taoiseach earns is not that important. (€220,792,000)

Brian Cowan is on more than 220 million a year??? :eek:

r0nanf

Belfast wrote: »

I think the large amount of money that President Bill Clinton made after he left the white house is more important than any Salary the Presidential of America makes.

I understand what you are getting at, but there are no laws against keynote speaking afaik.

However, I think that in these circumstances it is too short sighted of us as a public to just wave away €265k just because comparatively it is "peanuts". Surely when you add all of these "peanuts" together you get a number significantly higher, perchance a little closer to the €20bn exchequer deficit? That deficit is the result of monies like these being thrown at unnecessary causes. It's no less wasteful than PPARS, or the Millenium Clock, or the Metro North. It just shows that the attitude has not changed at all. We're still living it up in the naughties

Macha

Belfast wrote: »

€53,000 is peanuts compared to the €20,000,000,000 whole in the public finances or the €90,000,000,000 Bad Bank Quango.

Issues like this seem to be to be a distraction for the big money being wasted or misspent.

How much money the Taoiseach earns is not that important. (€220,792,000)

I beg to differ. The inflated salaries of our politicians are yet another symptom of the political cronysim and "jobs for the boys" mentality rampant within FF (and possibly other parties). I agree with the idea that politicians should be well remunerated in order to attract the best of the best but ultimately these people seem to have forgotten that they are not supposed to be on the gravy train but are public servants.

So for me, it's yet more proof of how out of touch FF are with the economic realities of 2009. Moreover, their inability to simply remove the ministers from their roles without compensation is further evidence of the total lack of backbone that is required to make tough decisions. Why do you think our public sector pay is so bloated? Every time a union stuck out it's hand, FF reponded by giving in and upping their members' pay.

Belfast wrote: »

How much the Taoiseach gets from private sources after he leaves office and is it for past favours do in office is of more interest to me.

I really don't care as long as it isn't taxpayers money. Bertie was doing the rounds in Honduras a few weeks ago rabbiting on about the Celtic Tiger and the success of Social Partnership while back home the levees were failing and economic disaster was beckoning. If people want to spend their own money listening to snake oil peddlars like Bertie, I'm not going to stop them.

panner

Just heard the news about this "golden handshake". To be honest I felt sick when I heard this. Its unbelievable and completely unfair.

I have a feeling they wont be made "unemployed" just moved to different departments through out the government. Its b**s**t.

eoinbn

TBH I don't have any huge problem with it, or the TD's refusing to give up the 'longterm' bonus. However it just seems like political suicide to bring this into the public eye and then not do it. It is just giving people more 'ammo' to avoid the real issues.

SkepticOne

Weren'tall the junior ministers asked to resign with no guarantee that they would be reappointed. They should all be entitled to the 53 grand really.

HQvhs

ixtlan wrote: »

I agree with DrumSteve.

In the current circumstances I think the junior ministers should reject the payment, but there's no easy way out of them being entitled to it.

They are just like pretty much every employee in the country. They have contract of a sort, stating their entitlements. It's legally difficult to reverse such contracts. Not impossible perhaps, but should we be wasting time on this? Let them volunteer to give up the payments and give a hard time to those who don't.

Ix.

That's true. But €53000 for not even two years service, and it's only a demotion really, seems a bit excessive to say the least? Obviously they should get a redundancy payment, but this amount is far too much by any reasoning.

peasant

Doesn't really matter who's entitled to what or not and is it too much or too little.

The nub of the issue is that whoever "prepared" the budget obviously didn't think this one through before it was announced.

So ...if they can't even keep up with their own pay packages ...how well does that bode for things like NAMA, the re-capitalisation of the banks and the economy in general?

Frightening, this is, really, really frightening.

panner

There is only so many words I can say in my lifetime and I feel I am wasting them by continuing to talk about this government and how badly they are handling the economic downturn. Here's my last two words....

Fianna Failure.

Sir Oxman

Is it not the case that Taoiseach appointments (like these 'Junior Ministers') are within the gift of the Taoiseach?

If they are within his gift to give, they are within his gift to take away.

This is not a redundancy situation or anything akin to it - it's a sop to the public ( the pathetic reduction of these useless junior minitries) and as someone else has said, the true frightening thing in all of this is that the buffoons who spent weeks double checking everything before announcing it 2 weeks ago, got it wrong. Again.

Competency at any level except their own self-interest goes out the window while their piggy snouts are stuck firmly in the trough.

melekalikimaka

those positions were something these ministers worked for a depended on their income... a 'golden handshake' as you call it... iin reality... they got dismissed and redundacny cos the economy is fecked... I'm fairly sure if all the wallys who voted no on lisbon kept their uninformed mouths shut the money thats gone into all that fiasco would more than covered this

HQvhs

melekalikimaka wrote: »

those positions were something these ministers worked for a depended on their income... a 'golden handshake' as you call it... iin reality... they got dismissed and redundacny cos the economy is fecked... I'm fairly sure if all the wallys who voted no on lisbon kept their uninformed mouths shut the money thats gone into all that fiasco would more than covered this

Money gone into limbo? I think Europe has plenty of economic problems of its own at the moment. They're not exactly rushing to bail out Austria, Britain or the German export sector. Yes or no it wouldn't have made any difference. (And I'll be voting yes next time around too btw)

Belfast

roosterman71 wrote: »

Brian Cowan is on more than 220 million a year??? :eek:

a few too many 000 there.

Belfast

taconnol wrote: »

I beg to differ. The inflated salaries of our politicians are yet another symptom of the political cronysim and "jobs for the boys" mentality rampant within FF (and possibly other parties). I agree with the idea that politicians should be well remunerated in order to attract the best of the best but ultimately these people seem to have forgotten that they are not supposed to be on the gravy train but are public servants.

I agree the inflated salaries are a symptom of political cronysim and "jobs for the boys" mentality rampant within FF (and possibly other parties).
There are much bigger issues that need to be dealt with and the issue of the salaries is diverting attention from this.

Here are example of other state employees
Rte 2006 The full list is:

1. Pat Kenny €849,139
2. Gerry Ryan €558,990
3. Marian Finucane €455,190
4. Joe Duffy €367,804
5. Ryan Turbidy €346,667
6. Derek Mooney €242,408
7. Marty Whelan €229,056
8. Miriam O'Callaghan €221,383
9. John Kelly €204,675
10. Bryan Dobson €193,610

The Taoiseach is nowhere near the top of this list.
look at the list of salaries in this article.

No banker deserves fifty times the income of a nurse
Written by Vincent Browne and Emma Browne
Thursday, 06 April 2006
http://www.village.ie/Society/Inequality/No_banker_deserves_fifty_times_the_income_of_a_nurse/

taconnol wrote: »

So for me, it's yet more proof of how out of touch FF are with the economic realities of 2009. Moreover, their inability to simply remove the ministers from their roles without compensation is further evidence of the total lack of backbone that is required to make tough decisions. Why do you think our public sector pay is so bloated? Every time a union stuck out it's hand, FF reponded by giving in and upping their members' pay.

You have a point there. FF and the others in power did just that and are incompetent.

The real questions is where is the plan to get us out of this problem.
Why did they not see the problem when it started back in 1998. Why was the national debt not paid off during the boom years.

taconnol wrote: »

I really don't care as long as it isn't taxpayers money. Bertie was doing the rounds in Honduras a few weeks ago rabbiting on about the Celtic Tiger and the success of Social Partnership while back home the levees were failing and economic disaster was beckoning. If people want to spend their own money listening to snake oil peddlars like Bertie, I'm not going to stop them.

The question is did Berite do something in office that he is now being paid for now. Is all this money that Politicians get after they leave office a delayed bribe?

ednwireland

i'm sick of hearing the argument that its not that much the problem is when the attitude pervades in any business that ahh sure its not that much is where problems start, the wastage on e-voting macines (why arent they been stored on army barracks ?) ppars were due to of sure its not that much but when you add it all up it runs to billions. the public sector needs a root and branch reform to bring the mentality in that everything YOU spend is important and wages have to earnt unfortunately that comes from the top and taosaich. ministers, td's and its just not happening. i've said this before the first people to take cuts in my company are the directors, the first people to not get paid are our directors, it doesnt mean i liked being put on a 3 day week but if everyones in the same boat.

the junior ministers were asked to resign they agreed, do ministers get severance after re-shuffles ? as someone seaid they are not losing their jobs they are getting demontions. why the f**k should they get redundacy. i think our td's are being shown up for the money grabbing wasters i always believed they were.

Jaysoose

Am i missing something here? Cowen agrees to reduce the numbers of made up postions for his pals and these same people are being paid off because their pie in the sky extra income cannot be justified!! What? how is this reality?

"So we cant justify your handy numbers anymore lads, have 50k each and slither back into your seats on the back bench and say nothing"

They should hang their heads in shame.

Macha

Belfast wrote: »

The Taoiseach is nowhere near the top of this list.
look at the list of salaries in this article.

I take your point. Although again, I would stress that it isn't the actual money at stake that is my worry but more the principle of bloated public salaries. I do find RTE's salaires shocking.

Belfast wrote: »

The real questions is where is the plan to get us out of this problem.
Why did they not see the problem when it started back in 1998. Why was the national debt not paid off during the boom years.

Because they were too close to the construction industry.
Because they probably really thought that the Celtic Tiger would last forever - basically they were in over their heads.
Because any questioning of their economic policies would have involved some admission of guilt on their part -something that most politicians are loathe to do.

All I can think of at the moment.

Belfast wrote: »

The question is did Berite do something in office that he is now being paid for now. Is all this money that Politicians get after they leave office a delayed bribe?

I think that's a hard question to answer. Certainly it isn't fair to paint all politicians as corrupt. In the end they will attract significant talker-fees because of their previous position, their experience and their celebrity (and an often mis-judged assumption of their expertise).

thebigcheese22

Anyone hear Mary 'Wednesday' Wallace on Newstalk Lunchtime there?? It was hilarious!

She was sacked as a Junior Minister, and she tried to get us all teary eyed by saying all her friends are losing her jobs. Then when the presenter asked her about the golden handshake of 53000, she didn't answer him. Unbelievable.

Then when he questioned her about her reputation, and her nickname 'Wednesday' Wallace, she threatened to sue him!!! :eek:

Het-Field

Is Flynn in ? Is that true ?

If thats the case Fianna Fail have really lost the run of themselves

Edit

False Alarm ! Sorry

EastWallGirl

Could the money be offered to prevent/stall some sort of rebellion?

We know they are probably going to lose the next election but perhaps he is thinking the losses would be more severe now then when it is called further down the track, ie he has time to repair if he pays them off.

That is the only reason, blind freddy would see it would be unpopular with the electorate.

spank_inferno

thebigcheese22 wrote: »

Anyone hear Mary 'Wednesday' Wallace on Newstalk Lunchtime there?? It was hilarious!

She was sacked as a Junior Minister, and she tried to get us all teary eyed by saying all her friends are losing her jobs. Then when the presenter asked her about the golden handshake of 53000, she didn't answer him. Unbelievable.

Then when he questioned her about her reputation, and her nickname 'Wednesday' Wallace, she threatened to sue him!!! :eek:

Why was she called "wednesday wallace"?

ixoy

taconnol wrote: »

Because any questioning of their economic policies would have involved some admission of guilt on their part -something that most politicians are loathe to do.

Or with Bertie you should not only not question the economic policy, but you should actually kill yourself if you found it too negative. It's that arrogance of "we did not wrong", that lack of culpability, that's still permeating through out the government.

r0nanf

spank_inferno wrote: »

Why was she called "wednesday wallace"?

I believe as it was her favoured one day of the week to turn up....

I think Mary 'Tears of a Clown' Wallace would have been more suitable:D

Macha

ixoy wrote: »

Or with Bertie you should not only not question the economic policy, but you should actually kill yourself if you found it too negative. It's that arrogance of "we did not wrong", that lack of culpability, that's still permeating through out the government.

Ah yes, the unpatriotic doom-mongers that should top themselves to make Eire a brighter, more bubbly place.

Belfast - I think you're right about politicians just being the tip of the iceberg:

MORE than 300 of the State's top earning civil servants took home salaries averaging more than €165,000 last year.
The 338 heads of government departments and state agencies shared a €56m pay bonanza in 2008, an Irish Independent investigation has found.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/300-public-servants-now-earn-euro165000-1715260.html