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Second Hand Purchases

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  • 21-04-2009 3:08pm
    #1
    missmaggs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19 ✭


    I wonder if any body could advise me on a kinda legal issue...

    My mate bought a second hand sports car from a garage. The car was advertised in the showroom as a ‘2007 model – excellent condition – a bargain', and cost circa 30 grand.

    He wasn't 100% sure whether he wanted the car,but the garage owner came round his place with the car on five separate occasions to encourage him to purchase. My mate finally, reluctantly, agreed to buy the car. After four weeks of driving, the car broke down and it now requires nearly 5 grand worth of repairs.

    He took the the car back to the garage but the garage owner refused to repair or replace the car. In the garage they reminded him that he had signed some documents stating that the garage would accept no liability for the car once it left the garage premises. They told him to contact the manufacturer...
    I wonder if anybody's been in this situation and knows what your legal rights in this case? It is a second-hand good... but it was advertised as being in "excellent considition"...

    EDIT: I should add that this is for a project I'm doing! I know what the legal implications are when purchasing new goods, but what about second hand goods??


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    #2
    Paulw
    Registered Users Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    This question was already asked - see thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055537898


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    #3
    missmaggs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19 ✭missmaggs


    Paulw wrote: »
    This question was already asked - see thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055537898

    thx!!


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    #4
    missmaggs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19 ✭missmaggs


    Paulw wrote: »
    This question was already asked - see thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055537898

    ok, fair enough, but that still doesn't answer the question. I mean, I have looked at the Sales of Goods Act, etc., i have ckecked the National Consumer Agency website, I am NOT trying to get somebody to do my assignment for me!
    But I stil don;t get the picture re second hand goods, does that mean that the consumer has the same rights as they;d have when buying new goods, bar reasonable wear and tear considerations, and faults that have been pointed out to him??

    And if the consumer saw the car FIVE times, does that mean he should have been aware that it's not perfect, or should he have had a mechanic look at it? i'm thinking probably not, because he is buying it form a garage which has legal obligations to sell raoworhty vehicles only...I suppose the issue is that we dont know whether the buyer was aware of faults, but supposing he wasn't, having seen te car FIVE times, are there legal implications stemming form this that he SHOULD have been aware of the faults??

    And what about the dealer presurring the buyer- I don;t know if there is a law that covers that..I mena is there? I scanned the Sales Act, couldn;t see it....


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    #5
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,354 ✭✭✭bladespin


    Not really a consumer issue, should be in motors IMO but it all depends on the terms of the sale, this is a second hand sale not a new car so the warranty offered can differ from dealer to dealer. Was this a sold as seen purchase, if so then your friend has a big problem, the seller may have visited 5 times but no-one forces someone to buy a car.
    Was the sale a private sale? Even a dealer can sell their car privately.
    What is wrong with the car? Engine and gearbox are normally covered for around 6 months on normal secondhand sales.


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    #6
    _Whimsical_
    Registered Users Posts: 7,953 ✭✭✭_Whimsical_


    missmaggs wrote: »
    ok, fair enough, but that still doesn't answer the question. I mean, I have looked at the Sales of Goods Act, etc., i have ckecked the National Consumer Agency website, I am NOT trying to get somebody to do my assignment for me!
    But I stil don;t get the picture re second hand goods, does that mean that the consumer has the same rights as they;d have when buying new goods, bar reasonable wear and tear considerations, and faults that have been pointed out to him??

    Yes thats what it means where cars are concerned.
    See http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Hot_Topics/Guides-to-Consumer-Law/Buying-a-car/responsibilities.html
    missmaggs wrote: »
    And if the consumer saw the car FIVE times, does that mean he should have been aware that it's not perfect, or should he have had a mechanic look at it? i'm thinking probably not, because he is buying it form a garage which has legal obligations to sell raoworhty vehicles only...I suppose the issue is that we dont know whether the buyer was aware of faults, but supposing he wasn't, having seen te car FIVE times, are there legal implications stemming form this that he SHOULD have been aware of the faults??....

    No.Presuming the car seemed to be in perfect condition and presuming the man buying the car asked any relevant questions of the seller then he should not bear the responsibility for the car not being as described.
    missmaggs wrote: »
    And what about the dealer presurring the buyer- I don;t know if there is a law that covers that..I mena is there? I scanned the Sales Act, couldn;t see it....


    I don't think the Sale of Goods Act covers this.The 2007 Consummer Act addresses it and makes it a criminal offence to use threathening or intimidating sales tactics and also to persistently cold call a consummer when it is unwanted.I don't think calling 5 times would really be considered as bringing excessive pressure to bear on the consummer.
    Info:http://www.consumerassociation.ie/rights_legalprotection.html

    Are you doing this for college or secondary school?You can get good Q&A books for most legal courses now.They set out questions like this and answer them for you. It's a good way to learn how to go about these kind of questions.Definitely better than asking people on the internet.


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    #7
    missmaggs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19 ✭missmaggs


    bladespin wrote: »
    Not really a consumer issue, should be in motors .

    Yeah, I put it up in motors originally but it got locked- they said its more of a consumer issue...


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    #8
    missmaggs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19 ✭missmaggs


    chilly wrote: »
    Are you doing this for college or secondary school?You can get good Q&A books for most legal courses now.They set out questions like this and answer them for you. It's a good way to learn how to go about these kind of questions.Definitely better than asking people on the internet.

    its for college. yes, i know exactly what your saying, the problem with books is that they often review cases with refernce to one legal aspect, to make things clearer. But there are cases with so many various variations of issues that you don;t know which to apply....

    Anyway, I was just looking for some help and support, I did get it, so thanks!! (and that's what boards are for, right??:) )


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    #9
    _Whimsical_
    Registered Users Posts: 7,953 ✭✭✭_Whimsical_


    missmaggs wrote: »
    its for college. yes, i know exactly what your saying, the problem with books is that they often review cases with refernce to one legal aspect, to make things clearer. But there are cases with so many various variations of issues that you don;t know which to apply....

    That's exactly why those books are useful. There isn't always a completely clear cut answer to these questions and often there's no case law that will exactly coorelate to the facts of your case. Those books can show you how you can use case law that doesn't refer exactly to the facts of the case in hand to create a legally persaussive argument.
    missmaggs wrote: »
    Anyway, I was just looking for some help and support, I did get it, so thanks!! (and that's what boards are for, right??:) )

    boards.ie is a terrible place to get answers for 3rd level standard college questions. I'm sure you are intended to make direct reference to the SoG Act to back up your argument.Trust me...books are better. :)


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    #10
    disssco
    Registered Users Posts: 337 ✭✭disssco


    That scoundrel of a salesman! I have half a mind to track him down and give him a good talking to.


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    #11
    darc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 677 ✭✭✭darc


    missmaggs wrote: »
    its for college. yes, i know exactly what your saying, the problem with books is that they often review cases with refernce to one legal aspect, to make things clearer. But there are cases with so many various variations of issues that you don;t know which to apply....

    Anyway, I was just looking for some help and support, I did get it, so thanks!! (and that's what boards are for, right??:) )

    I'm guessing that the original post is a hypothetical question and you have decided that the question is being asked for a specific reason?

    From memory- and you'll have to check this out - the original manufacturers warranty would still be valid for the new owner of the car. It has something to do with a eu regulation that motor warranties, and possibly other warranties are transferable between different owners when still within the time limit provided. - So you need to check out trasfer of warranty legislation, how long the original warranty was for and whether the fault that has become apparent is a manufacturing fault.

    Even if the warranty is no longer valid, the sale of goods act would still be enforceable on the manfacturer if it was proven that the fault occurred due to a identifiable manufacturing fault as 2 years is not considered a reasonable tme fram for a motor vehicle to develop a major fault.

    Example - Isuzu Troopers 2000 - 2001 models had a problem with the turbo which in some instances caused engine failure. Even in 2005 they still replaced the turbos and in my case put a new engine in as it was a fault of manufacturer.

    edit - if the motor dealer was aware of the fault at the time of sale, then the motor dealer wold be commiting an offence.


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