Up to 1,700 job cuts in the HSE

ParkRunner

The HSE is proposing to cut nearly 1,000 staff and redeploy 2,000 employees.

The proposals are outlined in a confidential circular issued today to top HSE managers and seen by RTÉ News.

The number of staff in the area of administration and management will be cut by 500.

2,000 staff in the National Hospitals Office and HSE corporate will be redeployed to community health services.

As a general rule, a new hospital consultant post will only be created when two junior doctor posts have been cut.

In addition to these measures, the HSE also wants to reduce the number of staff nurses by 700 and put limits on student nurse posts.

No extra payments will be made to HSE staff that are redeployed.

Health unions met with senior HSE officials to discuss the detailed proposals.

Going in to that meeting, Kevin Callinan of Impact said the measures would be strongly resisted as they would have 'a devastating impact on jobs and services'.

The measures are being proposed by the HSE to stay within budget and to implement the Government's moratorium on recruitment and promotions in the public service.

The draft circular says that while there is no exemption for the health service from the moratorium, the aim is to maintain front line services where possible and to minimise the impact on patients.

The directive will also apply to all voluntary hospitals and agencies funded by the executive.

In future, recruitment of staff will only be considered on the basis of a 'one out - one in' system and decisions may be taken to suppress posts.

There is provision to fill a limited number of vacancies, or create new posts, in the areas of speech and language therapists, psychologists, social workers and emergency medical technicians.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0421/hse.html

Public sector job cuts are now very much on the agenda . I imagine the unions will do all in their power to reduce the numbers losing their jobs and get the best redundancy deal possible for those being made redundant.

While there may be a medium term benefit to the State following the implementation of these cuts, it will be a few years before any real benefit is accrued as the dole queue will lengthen and government revenues will be lost due to lower general expenditure in the economy. How the savings which eventually accrue are used will be vitally important in my opinion.

irishgrover

wow!! that's over 1% :rolleyes:
seriously, the fact that they might consider this to be in any way effective is just indicative of how far they are removed from reality....

brianthebard

EF wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0421/hse.html

Public sector job cuts are now very much on the agenda . I imagine the unions will do all in their power to reduce the numbers losing their jobs and get the best redundancy deal possible for those being made redundant.

While there may be a medium term benefit to the State following the implementation of these cuts, it will be a few years before any real benefit is accrued as the dole queue will lengthen and government revenues will be lost due to lower general expenditure in the economy. How the savings which eventually accrue are used will be vitally important in my opinion.

Why focus on the unions, are you not concerned about the damage to services and stalling of any plans for improvement because of this plan? It seems the cuts are coming from the medical staff, not from the bloated managerial section of the HSE. Does anyone know why this is, or am I reading the op wrong?

BroomBurner

That's what I thought aswell - 500 admin staff and 700 staff nurses??

irish_bob

brianthebard wrote: »

Why focus on the unions, are you not concerned about the damage to services and stalling of any plans for improvement because of this plan? It seems the cuts are coming from the medical staff, not from the bloated managerial section of the HSE. Does anyone know why this is, or am I reading the op wrong?

who they let go usually hinges on who is the cheapest to fire

put it this way , if an ass scracthing pen pusher is 25 years in the job , they have secured a hefty redundancy package in the event of thier loosing thier job so they end up staying an a young nurse a wet week in the job gets the boot

thats where unions have us

brianthebard

How is that the unions fault, the nurses are in unions too?

gnxx

Yesterday we see the shocking figures that the average absence rate for health service staff in January was 6.82%.

Today we see a leak of this information -- obviously from within the higher ranks of the HSE .... I would hazzard a guess and suggest that this information was probably leaked directly from the HSE press office.

They might not be the most efficient at care for the sick -- but you have to give them full marks for handling the press ....

deadhead13

Since when have our hospitals had too many staff nurses?

Firetrap

The Unions' job is to get the best deal possible for their members. It's the fault of the people who acquiesced to their demands.

Padraig Mor

deadhead13 wrote: »

Since when have our hospitals had too many staff nurses?

For many years.

ixoy

BroomBurner wrote: »

That's what I thought aswell - 500 admin staff and 700 staff nurses??

Yeah I thought I had mis-read as well. As much as I'm championing public service reform and cut backs, this hardly seems the most effective way to go about it. And staff deployment? Isn't that just shuffling the deck? Why is it I have little faith this will amount to much once the unions get stuck in, shut down the health system for a few days, and we all end up back where we started.

ParkRunner

Very interesting the response to this so far. Nearly the equivalent number of persons to be potentially made redundant as occured in Dell and yet a whole lot more is expected.
Personally I dont see what interest can be served by having an immediate drastic cull of numbers employed in the HSE and the public sector as a whole, with the very real possibility of a deflationary spiral.

Senna

This is just a disgrace, until they the make job cuts by evaluating employee performances and letting the unproductive staff go, this will just lead to reduced service levels and extend the problems further.
Its about time lazy PS workers who know (think) their job is safe had something to worry about.

zootroid

Firetrap wrote: »

The Unions' job is to get the best deal possible for their members. It's the fault of the people who acquiesced to their demands.

Kind of hard when they strike or threaten to strike at a moments notice

Sleepy

Break a strike once, just once, and you'll cripple the union. Just ask the IBOA...

jimmycrackcorm

EF wrote: »

Very interesting the response to this so far. Nearly the equivalent number of persons to be potentially made redundant as occured in Dell and yet a whole lot more is expected.
Personally I dont see what interest can be served by having an immediate drastic cull of numbers employed in the HSE and the public sector as a whole, with the very real possibility of a deflationary spiral.

Billions extra were poured into the HSE over the last ten year with only a fractional increase in service improvments. How much worse can it get?

tinner777

Padraig Mor wrote: »

For many years.

Really? I've spent the last three years working with three lads on temp contracts who now are going to be let go. Thats one of the busiest mental health units in cork shutting down if this goes ahead.

Cardinal Blue

Once the bulk of them is nurses,there really should'nt be any problems.No one can get into hospital in any case.......theres no beds.

dizzyniki

Padraig Mor wrote: »

For many years.

What are you writing on this thread for because you are evidently pig ignorant to the way that the health care system is run? there are severe shortages in many areas of the health care system and by far nursing is the main area which is disadvantaged. If it wasn't for the primary care given to the sick in this country by nursing staff then we wouldn't have a leg to stand on. It's a disgrace that the HSE see this as a viable option in an effort to meet the budget requirements. When so many of the over 50's retire now not one temporary nurse who works in that setting will be allowed to fill the vacancy. The HSE don't have to make promises of permanancy to anyone anymore but they could at least have the balls to to meet so many staff nurses half way and allow them to work in a temporary position. This would mean that they would only have to give a reduced amount of sick pay and workers would only be entitled to holidays for every 100hours that they work. The HSE are going about this completely wrong. This is a severe injustice to the nation! If what is proposed comes into action then we will definitely lose one of our main rights to life which is healthcare and inevitably Ireland will become a second world country. There just aren't enough nurses in the country at the moment and when new ones qualify they will emigrate and never return. This is the biggest mistake that the HSE and the government have EVER made!!!

beertons

I wouldn't mind if they cut the admin jobs, just leave the nurses alone. Even give the nurses contracts, and save on getting agency nurses, wh are paid alot more than ones with contracts.

dizzyniki

That's just it. the agency nurses don't get sick or holiday pay and even when the so called "embargo" was insitu agency nurses were still being employed in most areas of the health sector.....now it seems that the embargo will be lifted totally and every temp nurse in the country will have to join an agency as they will be the only ones getting paid! I don't understand why they will redeploy clerical staff and not nurses. there are many nurses who came to this country years ago, setteld and never got their permanacy and now it looks like they'll all have to go back home!!! It's actually going to have detrimental effects on the economy as the likes of indian, phillipino and african nurses will no longer be telling their loved ones of what the country has done for them subsequently there'll be no reason for anyone to come here. They've worked so hard in this country especially in the health service and now we're basically telling them to F off!!! I can't imagine nurses taking on more hours because this gvt levy wll swallow up any overtime in an instant and nurses work ridiculously long hours anyway. it's the most unsociable job there is, so bad for our health and from personal experience the job that is done is completely underestimated by many, many people

djpbarry

irishgrover wrote: »

wow!! that's over 1% :rolleyes:
seriously, the fact that they might consider this to be in any way effective is just indicative of how far they are removed from reality....

Is that the reality in which 100% of public servants are crap at their jobs?

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Billions extra were poured into the HSE over the last ten year with only a fractional increase in service improvments.

Could you quantify this “fractional increase”? Because the last I heard, the OECD (for example) actually commended many aspects of our health service, patient outcomes in particular (if I remember correctly).

beertons wrote: »

I wouldn't mind if they cut the admin jobs, just leave the nurses alone.

Or how about we just sack people who are crap at their jobs, regardless of whether they’re nurses, administrators or whatever?

Padraig Mor

dizzyniki wrote: »

What are you writing on this thread for because you are evidently pig ignorant to the way that the health care system is run?!

1. With your grammar, I wouldn't be criticising anyone else's 'ignorance'.
2. This is a public discussion board - I'll comment on this thread if I see fit.

I worked in a hospital for quite a few years. This taught me two things about nurses: (a). Many of them work hard and do a great job. (b). Many of them are useless layabouts who spend their days scoffing choccies while complaining how hard they have it. That's when they're not off abusing their sick leave.

We have plenty of nurses. Their capabilities are just implemented badly. A recent report (OECD?) pointed out that France has half the nurses per capita that Ireland has, but an obviously superior health system. Why is this?

Don't get me wrong. I don't have a particular vendetta against nurses. I cannot think of a single sector of the health service that is not banjaxed - doctors, cleaners, 'allied health professionals', admin, you name it. Thanks to decades of vested interests and political mismanagement, the whole system is completely broken. I just don't get this bizarre notion that nurses are some sort of angels - they're not; they are no better or worse than anyone else.

Senna

Padraig Mor wrote: »

I just don't get this bizarre notion that nurses are some sort of angels - they're not; they are no better or worse than anyone else.

They are front line staff, yes there are lazy ones in that two, but all nurses went thought years of training that has proved they have some commitment to the job. Also remember that the ones you make consider lazy are still there and backing up the good ones (there are other aspects to nursing, including quite a bit of admin, transfer, orders etc). I cant see how anyone with a reasonable comprehension of the HSE would be glad to see any nurse get the sack before any admin worker.

Also, do you think it will be the lazy nurses that get the sack, no, it will be the staff they can get rid off, regardless of performance.

dizzyniki

Padraig Mor wrote: »

1. With your grammar, I wouldn't be criticising anyone else's 'ignorance'.

I'm ever so sorry teacher that my grammar constitutes ignorance. Get a grip....................what group of public servants don't scoff chocolates at some stage of the day on any given day? Whether anyone believes nurses to be angels or not is an entirely different story, one that is not mentioned here. I decided to become a nurse as it was a highly interesting, practical and challenging job. I didn't train so that people would believe me to be some type of angel, nor do I ever go around acting like my sh*t is currant cake!!!! Yes there are plenty of nurses who abuse the system with regards to sick leave and all that.....but that's exactly why we haven't enough nurses. The nurses who are willing to work aren't given the permanancy to do so and sick leave is left uncovered. You obviously haven't worked in a busy hospital then I take it???