Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2009

Sparks

It's not out yet, this is just in anticipation of the Bill being published. I wanted to create the thread so everyone saw one place to comment on it. As soon as it's published, I'll come back and edit the original post with links or an attachment with the bill itself. I'll merge any other threads that get started on it into this one as well, just to keep it all in the one neat-ish place, and we're temporarily stickying it. Enjoy...

Okay, links time:
The main legislation page for the CJ(MP)B 2009, which has all the versions of the Bill on it.

The first debate on the bill in the Dail, part one.

The first debate on the bill in the Dail, part two.

The first debate on the bill in the Dail, part three.

The first debate on the bill in the Dail, part four (final part).

The Bill is now scheduled to go to the Dail Select Committee on Justice.

daveob007

Sparks wrote: »

It's not out yet, this is just in anticipation of the Bill being published. I wanted to create the thread so everyone saw one place to comment on it. As soon as it's published, I'll come back and edit the original post with links or an attachment with the bill itself. I'll merge any other threads that get started on it into this one as well, just to keep it all in the one neat-ish place, and we're temporarily stickying it. Enjoy...

Thanks for that, its better to place a single thread dedicated to that issue.
there are comments all over the place in other threads and this can be a bit confusing trying to find all the comments.
whats the delay,we are all waiting to hear if we are to be penalised for owning certain types of guns or not????

Sparks

daveob007 wrote: »

whats the delay

Don't know dave - the scheduled date was today, but there's been nothing all day on it. There have been new publications from the DoJ allright, but nothing to do with the Misc Bill or firearms legislation in general. We're all just waiting about...

bunny shooter

Checked ssai site etc no news

foxhunter

bunny shooter wrote: »

Checked ssai site etc no news

There going to sneak it out when everyone is asleep tonight and then shut the doors and wait for the emails and phones to start.:D

chem

Phoned DoJ today, and was told, that they dont know when its to be released

Some time this week, was what I was told:rolleyes:

Sparks

Well, there's only two sitting days for the Dail this week, today and tomorrow...

rrpc

Been out most of the day, rang the DoJ and was told to watch their website; not easy to do from a moving vehicle. :mad:

But when I got back to base, discover that there's nothing to watch anyway.

This bill seems destined to be overshadowed by something bigger and of much more interest to the media. Last time it was the budget and now it's the junior ministerial reshuffle.

So now we're guessing again as to when we'll see the damn thing

Sparks

Just heard in from the FCP, the bill was approved, but publication of the bill is delayed until next week so some details can be sorted out with the AGs office.

From the SSAI's website:

Please see below from the Department of Justice issued today (22nd April)

Dear members of the FCP,

The Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2009 was approved by Government today

There are still some details to be ironed out between ourselves and the AG so the Bill will not be published until next week.

G17

rrpc wrote: »

rang the DoJ and was told to watch their website;

My F5 button needs replacing...................:D

chem

Sparks wrote: »

Just heard in from the FCP, the bill was approved, but publication of the bill is delayed until next week so some details can be sorted out with the AGs office.

From the SSAI's website:

Anyone know anyone who can leek it to us? Seems all the rage these days with government bodies:D

ancienthunter

mmmm....does'nt sound like democracy to me. I thought everything is suppose to be transparent and clear and held in an open forum with the citizens of Ireland and their representives.

Sparks

Do you see any other laws offically published before they're laid before the Dail for open debate?

ancienthunter

Again I'd like to thank you sparks, yes you are correct. Fundamentaly the system is flawed. Thank you

Sparks

Actually AH, what I was trying to say is that the openness happens in the Dail, not in the Department. None of the other TDs have to conduct their business openly with private members bills before laying them before the Dail and neither do Ministers. It's not what I'd like, but at least it's symmetrical - and it's following the constitution.

ancienthunter

How are our representives suppose to represent if we have no knowledge of whats impeding. Iam not correct in saying nobody has a clue other than a small elite group

Sparks

Our representatives (as in TDs) represent once the bill is announced (look up how a bill becomes an act).
Our representatives (as in the FCP) do not have primacy over Dail Eireann (look up the constitution).

Rovi

There's a rather excellent summary of the process by which a Bill makes its way though the system to eventually become law in the Downloads section of the SSAI website. It should be attached here.

ancienthunter

ok, I see. But the bill has already being passed? But we don't know what it is.....??? Iam confused.

Rovi

ancienthunter wrote: »

ok, I see. But the bill has already being passed? But we don't know what it is.....??? Iam confused.

No, the Bill was "approved by Government" yesterday (Wednesday 22nd April 2009). This means that the Government (Fianna Fail + sundry others) have given their approval for the Bill to be published and presented to the entire Dáil; this publication and presentation to the Dáil is what constitutes 'First Stage' in the above attached guide.

G17

Don't see it on order of business today either?

Rovi

G17 wrote: »

Don't see it on order of business today either?

I wouldn't be expecting it today (or tomorrow).

As the DOJ&LR statement said:

There are still some details to be ironed out between ourselves and the AG so the Bill will not be published until next week.

It'll (allegedly) appear on the Order of Business 'next week'.

Exactly when 'next week', no-one knows yet; at least, no-one outside the DOJ&LR.

daveob007

Maybe if someone sends a big fat brown envolope to the ff party we might get a leak.
maybe one of the sacked junior ministers could do with the money.
it might be the criminal justice misc bill 2010 who knows

Breachloader

Its been a week now and still no sign, we can only hope the corrections they are making are for our benefit...

Any ideas what to expact folks? Reloading/Pistols/Full bore Rifles etc. ???

chem

Rang DoJ press office today. Was told it will be out in May! No date givin. This Friday would be nice:D

packas

chem wrote: »

Rang DoJ press office today. Was told it will be out in May! No date givin. This Friday would be nice:D

May 2009, 2010 or 2011???

Ned Muldhoon

This taken from speech by Mr. Ahern published on the DOJELR website:

"These measures are in addition to work already underway in further tightening the legislative provisions relating to guns and knives and similar weapons. A de facto handgun ban is already in force"

milkerman

The wait for the much vaunted legislation goes on. In the vacuum created by press releases, rumours and 4 tonnes of horse-****e my local Superintendant has stopped issuing licences for handguns and is now sitting on the applications. All the Dept do is say the Bill will be published on a given day - and then nothing happens.
What in the name of Jaysus is going on?

It wasn't me!

Nobody knows. It was due out in February and it wasn't bloody well ready then either. Just remember, after three months wait, you're deemed refused and properly notified, so request a reason for your refusal in writing. That way you have it should you decide to pursue it in any way.

Ned Muldhoon

nothing scheduled in the dail for this week either. Looks like it's a waiting game. powers that be are probably hoping we all get disillusioned and pack in pistol shooting of our own accord!

Sparks

I keep hearing "almost there", "nearly there", "very soon" and so on - I get the feeling that whatever's holding it up isn't in the DoJ but in the general Oireachtas red tape. And I agree, it's bloody fustrating.