Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2009

tonysopprano

Schengan first

Sparks

Back to firearms again. Pointing out that there's a time limit on this bill being passed because of the August 1 renewal date.

Saying she's against gun crime, but is anxious that those involved in legitimate sports need to be facilitated and the Minister needs to look at this again. Saying those she's spoken with are of the highest character, don't ever break the law and are of the highest integrity.

Sparks

Minister has strong attitudes about guns, but it's important to look at the figures - 20 licenced guns per 1000 people. Comparing to New Zealand and UK, we're on the low side.

'Black' firearms and shotguns coming up again. No hard facts as to number of firearms imported, anecdotal evidence says there's lots. I guess she means illegal firearms?

Sparks

Saying there's a serious problem with illegal firearm, but there's no evidence that legally held handguns have been used in crime. Been pointed out to her that the conditions that are required for licencing are very strict. (Wish she'd not use the 'W' word though...). Pointing out that licencees are vetted by crime 4. Pointing out the international recognition of the sport, the requirements for gun safes and monitored alarms. Pointing out that illegal guns come in with drug shipments, not under licence!

tonysopprano

Minister wants to fast track legislation.
Legimate sports ok. Sports shooters most law-abiding in country.
Gun ownership in Ireland very low
Black firearms in country not legally held ones.
NOT linked to crime.Vetted by C4.
Guns come wih drugs.

Sparks

Post-Nov 19 licence revoking should be looked at; this needs to be revisited. Pointing out that lots of money has been invested in the sport. Saying she's never shot a handgun (but has done clay pigeon shooting). Says there's about 20 people in Mayo with licenced handguns, and they're annoyed they're even in the same bill as the criminal laws, and they want to be distanced from the criminal side completely.

Pointing out that the handguns are dissassembled on the way to/from the range. That there's a perfect safety record.

tonysopprano

Why revoke FAC's since Nov.
Minister giving himself too much power.
Go Beverly

tonysopprano

Practical, no link with IPSC and combat

Sparks

Section 25 (prohibiting guns) being discussed, lots of power to the Minister, 1972 TCO being mentioned (though with the details wrong again), the Minister needs to look again at the legitimate sporting purposes.

Section 29 (banning practical shooting) - making the point that there's no link between IPSC and combat training, the Minister seems to see one, asking him to revisit it and replace "practical shooting" with "combat training".

Welcoming Section 31 (banning personal imports). Looking for proper statistical info on firearms imports.

Sparks

Seems to think that a personal import means the government has no control over what's imported. Yeesh.

Again restressing that there's no link between crime and sport. And sitting down, Bernard Durkan rising to speak.

Sparks

Talking about european arrest warrant stuff.

Sparks

Also stressing the lack of a link between gun crime and legitimate sports. Is concerned with people seeking handgun licences for self-defence, thinks of it as a criticism of the state of law&order in the country.

Sparks

Bit of DoJ/Gardai-bashing now, isn't crime awful...

How will the bill enhance the state's ability to combat gun crime?

tonysopprano

Brendan Durkan FG. Sports shooters lawabiding. CCW are being applied for. Bill will not stop crime.

Sparks

there's a need for a serious bit of legislation to tackle crime, we're only play-acting at it up to now...

Sparks

thinks we've gone past the point where we worry about the law being misused, that it's happening already.

Veronica Gueirin's shooting acted as a catalyst to alert people to crime levels.
Pipe bombs are showing up everywhere. It's not recreational, it's to intimidate (using a pipe bomb, that is)...

Sparks

More complaining about crime levels.

Sparks

Even more complaining about crime.

Sparks

Yet more complaining about crime. It's undermining democracy across europe, it's ethnic cleansing, Guiliani's zero tolerance didn't clean up crime, etc, etc...

Sparks

Still more complaining about crime. Civil liberties are all well and good, but criminals shouldn't have any (he's a mite shy on the how-you-tell-criminals-from-innocents bit though... )
:rolleyes:

Sparks

Finishing up by criticising the courts and judiciary.

You know, I don't expect the man on the street to know all the details of parlimentary procedure, but I'd expect a TD to know parlimentary procedure well enough to know when they're wasting time talking about things that have nothing to do with the topic of the debate. Feck's sake.

Sparks

And down he sits at last. Chris Andrews rising to talk (told he has 20 minutes).

Sparks

More talking about how shocking the levels of crime are.

Sparks

Talking about how one person running for election had her car destroyed and was intimidated by a group of thugs at one in the morning.

Sparks

Talking now about the rise in gun and knife crime.

Sparks

Welcomes the provisions in the bill. Welcomes the handgun ban and tougher penalties for possession of knives in public.

tonysopprano

Welcomes handgun ban

tonysopprano

F**king FF propaganda

Sparks

Says that handguns were banned until 2004 and now nearly 1800 have been licenced, this is a considerable number, an alarming figure and he fully supports the banning of ownership of handguns and he's happy that Garda Inspector O'Toole backs the bill, we can't be like the US with unregulated sale of handguns or we'll have school shootings like in Virginia Tech and in Germany.

tonysopprano

have to go, Champions League Final, but Go Beverly