Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2009

Sparks

Sent to Eoin Ryan - be interesting to hear what a FF MEP candidate thinks of FF proposed legislation (and I'll send it on to all the other MEP candidates as well):

Minister Ryan,
What are your thoughts on how the latest proposed amendments to the Irish Firearms Acts - as contained in the Criminal Justice (Misc.Provisions) Bill 2009 - contravene the EU directive on Firearms (91/477/EEC) by requiring all Irish firearms owners to only purchase ammunition or firearms from _Irish_ registered firearms dealers instead of the current (and in force since 1964) laws that allow them to purchase from any registered firearms dealer in the EU so long as the appropriate paperwork is in place?

Yours in Sport,

Sparks

And that's now going to all the MEP candidates through candidatewatch.ie and I've also emailed the major parties asking for their official positions on private ownership of firearms (including handguns) for the purposes of target shooting and/or hunting.

tonysopprano

Just confirmed with phonecall to Bills office that Thur 18/6/9 is date set for committee stage debate

redneckireland

I got some papers in the door from one of them <snip> running the country now. The scared <snip> wouldnt even wait for me to get to the door. Your mans mobile was on his paper. I texted him and said I wont vote FF again since they want to ban my sport. I dont care about the economy or any other <snip>. All I want is cheaper ammo.
I hope he choked on his after pint the <snip>.
I watched the dail debate last week. I was <snip> amazed to see Pat Rabbit defending us along with whats-his-face in FG.
Looks bad lads when our rights to private ownership is been restricted to the extent even the commies are worried!
If they do ban our guns the next FF'er commen to my door is going get <snip> man or woman!
Give em notten



[MOD NOTE]:
Post edited for profane and abusive language.

redneckireland, please read the Charter.

Sparks

Okay, can we can the silliness lads?

Sparks

Sparks wrote: »

And that's now going to all the MEP candidates

Received:

Noel McCullagh wrote:

Where as I do not know as much about this subject as you (there are so many), I can say this.
Were I to vote on such an issue, it would be in Brussels. I can assure you that I would read thoroughly through legislation and discuss that with interested parties on the ground.
My thoughts on the free movement of goods and services means that I would tend toward the second scenario that you outline in your question, i.e. that people should be able to purchase goods and wares (ammunition for hunting or shooting, et cereta) provided that they have in their possession all of the correct documents that are required under the existing act in force.
I am disappointed with the transposition of EU law into the Irish Statute books, and it is my consistent impression that the delays in this process are caused by the Central Party in Dublin requiring time to set up the various companies and so forth, that then proceed to benefit economically once the regulations are transposed to the Irish law books.
As a journalist covering the release of EU legislation, and one who (by means of being an Irishman) keeps a close watch on how the central party in Dublin "use" and "apply" those laws in practise : I see first hand the dynamics that are at work in Ireland in this regard.

I hope and trust that this answers your question. Could you let me know if I have left something out that is important to you ... you who feel strongly about this issue. May I ask : what is your opinion and do you own a rifle yourself ? What is the price difference between purchasing goods that fall under this Irish Statute in the UK and/or in France?

My prerogative is that the people in the area, those involved on the ground, are the most informed groups when it comes to very specific matters such as this one.

It will be my policy to listen to that knowledge, (and thereby hope to take most of it in as it is very often highly expert information depending on the citizens area of special expertise) , and after listening to how policies will effect those operating "on the ground" , I will act accordingly in the interests of those people.

After all, it is they who I shall be representing here in the Benelux~!

Best wishes ,
Noel

PS :Sorry for the late reply> My campaign is somewhat slow this week as I had to leave my home due to threats on my life.

--
Noel McCullagh,
Candidate, North-West constituency

Sparks

Received:

John Paul Phelan wrote:

I understand that you will shorrtly receive a response from my colleague representing the Fien Gael view.

Mise le Meas,

Senator John Paul Phelan

Replied:

Sparks wrote:

Thank you Senator, I have indeed already received an email from the FG political director, but it doesn't actually answer my specific question regarding the conflict between the new proposed Irish firearms legislation and the current EU firearms directive - perhaps a more specific statement on that conflict might be made?
Yours in Sport,

Sparks

Received:

Joe Higgins wrote:

This is the first time this issue has been brought to my attention so I am not in a position to give a definite answer. If elected I would certainly be prepared to dicsuss the question with representative organisations.
sincerely,
joe higgins

Sparks

Received:

Nessa Childers wrote:

This a very serious issue that effects more than 236,000 lawful individuals in this country. While measures must be taken to fight the rise of gun crime on our streets, the bill was too hasty in its preparation and showed a lack of foresight and consideration for lawful firearms owners. There is no evidence to show that legally held handguns, or stolen legally held handguns, have been used in the commission of any crime. The Labour Party fully supports the law being brought up to date in the matter of licensing of firearms, their security and their use. We do not support, however, measures purportedly introduced to tackle crime being used instead to put legitimate sports clubs out of business. Handgun target shooting sports in Ireland is not insignificant as a sport and is a dimension of indigenous rural business in some counties. If there was evidence that any of the handguns used in any of the 40-odd shooting ranges were finding their way into the hands of the criminals using firearms in our estates and on our streets, then Labour would support the banning of handguns. But we don't have that evidence. The Government must revisit this legislation to ensure lawful firearms owners are not unfairly discriminated against.

Regards,

Nessa

Sparks

Received:

Eoin Ryan's Assistant wrote:

Thank you very much for your email. I will bring your query regarding the amendments to the Irish Firearms Acts to the attention of Mr Ryan and get back to you with his response and thoughts on this issue as soon as possible.

Yours sincerely,
Laura Real
Assistant to Eoin Ryan MEP

Sparks

Summarising all of these here in case it's of interest.

Sparks

Received as a follow-up:

Noel McCullagh wrote:

Thanks for that extra information
I like sports too, I'm a swimmer. |(not to technical as your sport)|

the situation you describe sounds ludicrous..! And I imagine, that having a gun dealer import your materials back into the country would not be done for free!

makes enjoying oneself and competing for their country more tedious with bureaucracy than it would otherwise be!

Thanks for the information. I look forward to returning on this issue with you for a press article , if not as a parliamentarian!
Noel

Sparks

Received:

John Francis Higgins wrote:

I am unfamiliar with these laws in relation to weapons and the interaction
between state and EU law. I would need to study it more. Would this be a tax
generated i.e. more tax liable to be collected from sales in Ireland? It
would immediately strike me, that EU law is dominant. I have stated in my
Election literature that we have moved from a defensive conservative society
to an aggressive secular domain. This is happening to have sad repercussions
because there are more and more people around with less religious scruples.
They have no fear and leads to a sad increase in gun related crime. The
authorities have to try and stop this sudden breakout of wrongdoing. This
manifests itself in the Big Brother Syndrome. Sadly the whole legal and
justice edifice is overseen by people who can´t remember, did not hear, and
were not there, when asked to account for their own actions. Yes in this
system it is the normal law abiding citizen who feels aggrieved. This need
not be the case if leaders have ideals and are prepared to step down from
office when they get things wrong. It really amazes me that our leaders put
themselves back up for re-election when they have turned us into a country
riddled with Debt.

Sparks

Received:

Proinsias De Rossa wrote:

Thanks for your question. To be honest, I haven´t received any correspondence on this particular issue so wasn´t aware of it but I will bring it to the attention of the Labour Party´s justice spokesperson in the Dail, Pat Rabbitte TD who´s dealing with it in the Dail. Our initial position on the Minister´s proposals is set out in Pat´s statement of 20 May, available at
www.labour.ie
Best wishes,
Proinsias De Rossa MEP

Sparks

Received:

Mary Lou McDonald wrote:

a chara,
Thank you for your query. Sinn Fein gave a general welcome to the firearms section of the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2009 but have not yet taken positions on each individual provision.

During debates on legislation on this issue in 2006, my colleague Aengus Ã? Snodaigh TD called for an effective and modern licensing regime to allow for gun clubs and sport to continue while ensuring prudent gun control in the interests of public safety.

The ultimate objective of Sinn Fein´s approach to this legislation will be to achieve the right balance in terms of gun control and public safety while allowing the legitimate use of firearms, in particular sporting competitions and farm use to continue.

Is mise le meas,
Mary Lou McDonald MEP.

Hivemind187

Fair play to Nessa Childers for changing the tone that labor has had on this subject for the last while. Trying to deal with McManus was like speaking to a rather stubborn brick who hadnt done its research.

However, I find John Higgins comments to be disturbing. Not only did he essentially ignore the question given to him, reducing it to one of taxes, but he used the opportunity to make cynical attacks on the government and to identify secularists as the root cause of increasing violent crime.

One hopes this is not indicative of the overall intellect of our future representation in Ireland.

The others are a little wishy-washy though arent they? Sinn Fein seems to be doing its best to rid itself of the gun-toting image of yester year (the decor of one of its Bray offices not withstanding).

PJ Hunter

"in particular sporting competitions and farm use to continue".
plinker and the non-farming bunny shooter?

was wondering, any of the olympic shooting teams from all around the world who if they want to come here to train before the start of the games, will they have to buy all ammunition from dealers here or can they still import all the millions of cartridges be it for trap and pistol shooting.

daveob007

today is d,day for ff
dont forget to give it your all

Sparks

Received:

Patricia McKenna wrote:

I am sorry but this is the first time that this issue has been brought to my attention and I am not familiar with the current state of play. I would be extremely reluctant to give you a reply before I have had a chance to carry out further research on it. I always feel it is unwise to comment on something that one is not well informed on. When I have done some research on the issue I will get back to you. Thank you for your question.
All the best,
Patricia

Sparks

tonysopprano wrote: »

Just confirmed with phonecall to Bills office that Thur 18/6/9 is date set for committee stage debate

That's just been released on the official published schedule now as well.

hk

The NASRPC has posted a letter to FF TD's on their website. Seems like a good idea as I wouldnt imagine FF back bench TDs are too happy at the moment and a targeted campaign towards their party may now produce some results if the letter keep flooding in. There is a link on the homepage to the letter. I had a quick scan through and its seems well drafted at first glance. Its a PDF, I for one will be printing it and sending it on to my local FF TDs and would encourage everyone who holds a FAC regardless of type or caliber to do so also. A coherent and targeted plan is what is required now IMHO, a lot of people here have been sending emails, esp to the opposition, myself included, but I do believe there is merit in targeting the FF party esp after the election results. Dont leave it to someone else, play your part in safe guarding your sport.

meathshooter

Minister Ryan,
What are your thoughts on how the latest proposed amendments to the Irish Firearms Acts - as contained in the Criminal Justice (Misc.Provisions) Bill 2009 - contravene the EU directive on Firearms (91/477/EEC) by requiring all Irish firearms owners to only purchase ammunition or firearms from _Irish_ registered firearms dealers instead of the current (and in force since 1964) laws that allow them to purchase from any registered firearms dealer in the EU so long as the appropriate paperwork is in place?



They are looking after the big cats as usual and screwing the indvidual as usual

daveob007

9 June 2009




Dear daveob007,


I am directed by the Minister of Justice, Equality and Law Reform to refer to your recent representations concerning his announcement last November outlining new restrictions on handguns and controls on firearms.

These new restrictions are now contained in Part 4 of the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2009 (No. 29 of 2009). The Bill has just been published and is available on the Oireachtas website at www.oireachtas.ie. I enclose a copy of the Minister's speech introducing the Bill in the Dáil.


Yours sincerely,


_______________________
Private Secretary
`
as if i need to read it again!!
I sent it to all parties as requested.

daveob007

I am just starting this thread in conjunction with the main thread dedicated to this.
My idea is to get your opinions on what should be contained in any new firearms legislation.
How would you restucture the new bill for all shooting diciplines and what laws would you put in place.

Sparks

davy, if we go down that road, we'll have 50 threads on the same topic. threads merged. (Besides, we did this before, back in 2004)

daveob007

Sparks wrote: »

davy, if we go down that road, we'll have 50 threads on the same topic. threads merged. (Besides, we did this before, back in 2004)

i suppose you are right,,everyone has different opinions on the subject

Sparks

From the NTSA website:

Three year licence - Transition phase
Wednesday, 10 June 2009

The Department of Justice Equality and Law reform have published a document to the FCP outlining the transition phase for the new three year licensing system. This document is available to download in our document section (below right). You will receive notice in plenty of time before your licence is to be renewed and the attached document outlines the correct procedure for renewing your licence.

The document reads:

Note for FCP on Transition Phase for the Introduction of the 3 Year Firearms Certificate
9 June 2009
The Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 is due to be commenced in
early July 2009 and will facilitate the enactment of the remaining sections of the
Criminal Justice Act 2006 thereby introducing the three year firearms licence. This new
legislation will make provide for the transition phase during which time all current
licences, which are due to expire on 31 July 2009 will be extended. The extensions will
be from a minimum of 3 months up to a maximum of 12 months: i.e. until at least 1
November 2009 up to the latest 31 July 2010. These extensions will be assigned on a
random basis to facilitate the phasing in of the new 3 year firearms licence and will
ensure that all licences will not expire on the same date in the future. In early July 2009
the Garda Commissioner will write to each licence holder and will outline the period of
time that the licence has been extended for. He will also invite the holder when they
can apply for a new firearms licence - up to 3 months prior to the date of expiry of the
extended licence.
The letter from the Commissioner must be attached to the existing firearms licence and
carried by the licence holder. It will be recognised by the Garda Síochána as being a
valid licence for the extension period outlined in the letter. These extended licences will
be free of charge. All existing firearms licence holders will not now be required to renew
their licences on form PC20 and instead will be required to apply under the new
legislation - on the new application form FCA1 - following the expiry of their extended
licences. The application form is available at www.garda.ie
The collection of fees for firearms licences will be outsourced and no money will, in
future, be accepted at Garda Stations for firearms licences. The Garda Commissioner
will shortly publish Guidelines on firearms licensing. These Guidelines will be available
to the public and the Gardaí alike and should be of assistance to all firearms licence
holders during this period of major change in the firearms licensing processes.

Rovi

Sparks wrote: »

The document reads:

...will be required to apply under the new
legislation - on the new application form FCA1 - following the expiry of their extended
licences. The application form is available at www.garda.ie

Interesting.

Can anyone else find this new application form on the (newly revamped) Garda site?
Their old site used to have a 'downloadable documents' section, but I can't see anything like that there now.

Darr

RE: FCA1
was looking for that myself as the station didnt have any last eve .
Darr

chem

Rovi. I rang the garda press office. I was told that the criminal justice bill still has to be passed, and when it is, the form will be released.

So everyone has to reapply for there guns? That should take awhile:rolleyes: