Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2009

Sandy22

"The Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 is due to be commenced ... These extensions will be assigned on a random basis ..."

Why? Shouldn't it be in alphabetical order?

"... He will also invite the holder when they can apply for a new firearms licence - up to 3 months prior to the date of expiry of the extended licence ...

...All existing firearms licence holders will not now be required to renew their licences on form PC20 and instead will be required to apply under the new legislation - on the new application form FCA1 - following the expiry of their extended licences...."

Well, which is it? Prior or following? Contradicting themselves already. Presumably prior would make more sense.

Darr

so if applying for a new FAC this week .. what do you use ? ..
Im guessing the old one .. but its going to take more the 6 weeks to get it granted so does it then mean you have to reapply again .
Darr

foxhunter

Darr wrote: »

so if applying for a new FAC this week .. what do you use ? ..
Im guessing the old one .. but its going to take more the 6 weeks to get it granted so does it then mean you have to reapply again .
Darr

Some stations will not accept a new application until after the 18th of june
but you can still get a transfer done at the moment.

chem

Why do we have to reapply?? Can they not just issue a new licence? Smells funny to me

daveob007

as far as i know,you can still make changes to your current cert ie change of firearm,address etc it will go onto the pulse system as usual.
this will then be used for the new regime.
as for handguns, i am thinking of buying a .22 pistol,should i wait and see or go ahead and apply for a cert.
already have a 9mm

Darr

foxhunter wrote: »

Some stations will not accept a new application until after the 18th of june
but you can still get a transfer done at the moment.

Darn , ya was hoping to put in a new application for a new FA this week ..
My CPO ( who deals with FA's) is out today and difficult to get hold of most of the time .
Darr

sfakiaman

Darr wrote: »

RE: FCA1
was looking for that myself as the station didnt have any last eve .
Darr

Administration isn't a strong point of the State is it? Probably waiting to pass the bill before filling in all the little details that we might challenge them on.

foxhunter

Darr wrote: »

Darn , ya was hoping to put in a new application for a new FA this week ..
My CPO ( who deals with FA's) is out today and difficult to get hold of most of the time .
Darr

It's only some stations Darr you might be lucky enough to get it in.

bunny shooter

Since when did we re-apply every year? I thought we renewed?

chem

I get the feeling that the new "guidelines" might make some already licenced firearms unlicenceable. Maybe thats why we are all having to reapply. As well as alot of old guns that are in presses around the county been taken in. Know afew old timers who have shotguns and rifles who are not members of clubs etc. They just renewed the licence each year. Now will they be asked to produce membership of a club this time? Or have to go looking for permission from farmers? Most will just hand them in. Not worth the hassle.

hk

bunny shooter wrote: »

Since when did we re-apply every year? I thought we renewed?

Under the new leglislation you will always have to re-apply. You will be granted a three year licience and once that expires you will have to re-apply again. This is one of my serious concerns with the new leglislation. The minister has said that current pistol FAC holders will get to keep their firearms but the leglislation only states that you may reapply if you already hold a FAC issued before Nov last year. Therefor there is no guarentee that if you hold a FAC for a pistol prior to nov last year that you will be granted a new licience. Ie this could be a way of taking back those pistols also. I assume that the reason everyone has to re apply is because the leglislation on liciencing has changed for everyone incl shotgun owners and as such will have to reapply under the new leglislation.

Sparks

hk wrote: »

Under the new leglislation you will always have to re-apply. You will be granted a three year licience and once that expires you will have to re-apply again.

Er, no.
Section 3(7) and 3(8) aren't going to be amended by the CJB, only section 3(3).
In other words, it's a one-time-only, transitional arrangement.

Which, to my mind, isn't being implemented very well, because it leaves a load of crap in the Act that will have to be changed yet again in a year or two, and also because instead of adding to 3(3), it replaces it, and 3(3) is where it says you need a hunting licence to get a firearms licence for the purpose of hunting game. Which means that if the CJB goes through as is, you could apply for a firearms licence for hunting deer, and not have to produce a deer-hunting licence.

The minister has said that current pistol FAC holders will get to keep their firearms but the leglislation only states that you may reapply if you already hold a FAC issued before Nov last year.

That tallies with what I'm reading in it.

Therefor there is no guarentee that if you hold a FAC for a pistol prior to nov last year that you will be granted a new licience.

Correct, though it was ever thus.

BornToKill

Sparks wrote: »

it leaves a load of crap in the Act that will have to be changed yet again in a year or two

G'on Sparks - please tell us what that means. Hasn't there been enough changes? What further changes can there be? What is needs is a period of stability.

Sparks

What I mean BTK, is that it introduces as a swap for Section 3(3) of the Act, a large chunk defining the transition period from the 1-year to the 3-year licence; a chunk that will have no possible use after that period, and which ought to be dropped afterwards. So it'd come in in the CJ(MP)B2009 and then have to be deleted before next year's restatement act (or else you'd be just cluttering up the Act during the restatement).

tonysopprano

According to minister,

First group will be pistol owners. As soon as he can in July(presuming he can get CJB passed), with NO EXTENSION for pistol owners.Commissioner will write to you and let you know to reapply and all to be sorted out before 31st July. He reckons 1800 pistols now but probably 1600-1700 re-applications refused with new requirements etc(those surving will get 1 year licence).Then he moves onto shotguns and rifles with 12 months to refuse/ban re-applications. That is why he has said selective groups and not alphabetically or random

NOTE TO REPRESENTIVE GROUPS OF RIFLE/SHOTGUN(after selling pistol down the river)

YOU ARE NEXT.

There is still time left to write/email/call your local TD and especially anyone on the Justice committee in Dail or Seanad. See page 29, first post for list of members and email addresses. Committee debates are USUALLY open to the public, so see you all in Leinster House on 18th


TD Email Address Brendan Kenneally, Fianna Fáil (Chairman)bwk@eircom.netDinny McGinley, Fine Gael (Vice Chairman)dinny.mcginley@oireachtas.ieSean Connick, Fianna Fáil (Government Convenor)sean.connick@oireachtas.ieBrian O'Shea, Labour Party (Opposition Convenor)boshea@eircom.netDarragh O'Brien, Fianna Fáildarragh.obrien@oireachtas.ieThomas Byrne, Fianna Fáilthomas.byrne@oireachtas.ieJimmy Deenihan, Fine Gaeljdeenihan@eircom.netMichael Mulcahy, Fianna Fáilmichael.mulcahy@oireachtas.ieDennis Naughten, Fine Gaeldenis.naughten@oireachtas.ieCharlie Flanagan, Fine Gaelcharles.flanagan@oireachtas.ieNiall Collins, Fianna Fáilniall.collins@oireachtas.iePat Rabbitte, Labour Partypat.rabbitte@oireachtas.ieNoel Tracey, Fianna Fáilnoel.treacy@oireachtas.ie

rrpc

tonysopprano wrote: »

According to minister,

First group will be pistol owners. As soon as he can in July(presuming he can get CJB passed), with NO EXTENSION for pistol owners.Commissioner will write to you and let you know to reapply and all to be sorted out before 31st July. He reckons 1800 pistols now but probably 1600-1700 re-applications refused with new requirements etc(those surving will get 1 year licence).Then he moves onto shotguns and rifles with 12 months to refuse/ban re-applications. That is why he has said selective groups and not alphabetically or random

NOTE TO REPRESENTIVE GROUPS OF RIFLE/SHOTGUN(after selling pistol down the river)

YOU ARE NEXT.

Exactly where did you get this please?

And this is the shooting forum, not the making stuff up and trolling with it forum.

Sparks

I don't think the rest of it is right, but pistol owners (bar air pistol and .22 pistol) will be in the first group, as will the other owners of firearms on the restricted list, that's contained in the CJ(MP)B.

hk

Sparks wrote: »

Er, no.
Section 3(7) and 3(8) aren't going to be amended by the CJB, only section 3(3).
In other words, it's a one-time-only, transitional arrangement.


.

Is it a one time deal though? The way its written in the act would leave me to believe that you will have to re-apply every three years as opposed to renewal. =========================================================== "What I mean BTK, is that it introduces as a swap for Section 3(3) of the Act, a large chunk defining the transition period from the 1-year to the 3-year licence; a chunk that will have no possible use after that period, and which ought to be dropped afterwards". =========================================================== There is my point, is it useless or is it the new way of doing things, I think its to be left there as that is the new procedure. Hope im wrong

Half-cocked

Is it true the FCP met the Minister on Tuesday? Did anything come out of that meeting?

bunny shooter

**lightening bolts** the time of reckoning is nigh **more lightening bolts**

rrpc

hk wrote: »

Is it a one time deal though? The way its written in the act would leave me to believe that you will have to re-apply every three years as opposed to renewal. =========================================================== "What I mean BTK, is that it introduces as a swap for Section 3(3) of the Act, a large chunk defining the transition period from the 1-year to the 3-year licence; a chunk that will have no possible use after that period, and which ought to be dropped afterwards". =========================================================== There is my point, is it useless or is it the new way of doing things, I think its to be left there as that is the new procedure. Hope im wrong

It's one time only seeing as the dates and all are written into it.

As in: 31st July 2009, 31st July 2010 etc.

And by the way there are a fair few chunks of the current firearms acts that are one time only parts. Such as those parts that repeal earlier parts for example.

Half-cocked

Is there any indication how much the new 3 year license will cost? All sorts of rumours flying around about gun owners having to sell their families into slavery to pay the fees!;)

Sparks

rrpc wrote: »

And by the way there are a fair few chunks of the current firearms acts that are one time only parts. Such as those parts that repeal earlier parts for example.

I'm reasonably sure that those are actually parts of various Criminal Justice Acts and the like; what I'm talking about is stuff that would be left in the Act if you did a full restatement of it today. The new 3(3) text would be in it after that; the repeals and modifications wouldn't be.

Sparks

Half-cocked wrote: »

Is there any indication how much the new 3 year license will cost? All sorts of rumours flying around about gun owners having to sell their families into slavery to pay the fees!;)

Dunno about slavery, estimates have run from €66 to €120 per firearm.

bunny shooter

Talking to a firearms dealer yesterday (he is not prone to ****e talking to be fair) who has been in touch with DOJ. He reckons he's been told by "someone" in DOJ that we are going back to old upper limits for rifle as in 270 :eek:

The sky is falling I tell ya

My 303 application up da river I fears

Half-cocked

bunny shooter wrote: »

Talking to a firearms dealer yesterday (he is not prone to ****e talking to be fair) who has been in touch with DOJ. He reckons he's been told by "someone" in DOJ that we are going back to old upper limits for rifle as in 270 :eek:

The sky is falling I tell ya

My 303 application up da river I fears

That would be a big U-turn by the Minister. Didn't he only sign an S.I. last year making anything up to and including 7.62mm unrestricted? Mind you, U-turns and FFers seem to go hand in hand.

Half-cocked

Sparks wrote: »

Dunno about slavery, estimates have run from €66 to €120 per firearm.

Eeeeek. All my €6 2nd and subsequent shotguns licenses won't like that! Time for a cull:D But €66 to €120 for 3 years isn't too bad. I remember an elderly firearms dealer telling me that when he started shooting a game license cost 2 pounds. At the time a farm labourer earned 1 pound a week.

So the mother-in-law is safe from the white slavers for now......

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

I'm reasonably sure that those are actually parts of various Criminal Justice Acts and the like; what I'm talking about is stuff that would be left in the Act if you did a full restatement of it today. The new 3(3) text would be in it after that; the repeals and modifications wouldn't be.

Section 28 of the 1964 act:

28.—(1) Subsection (5) of section 3, section 14 and subsection (2) of section 17 of the Principal Act are hereby repealed.
(2) W/here, immediately before the passing of this Act, there was in force an authorisation under section 14 of the Principal Act there shall, upon such passing, be deemed to be in force a firearm certificate relating to the weapon to which the authorisation related granted by a Superintendent.
(3) An occasional licence granted under subsection (2) of section 17 of the Principal Act in relation to a prohibited weapon, and in force immediately before such passing, shall, upon such passing, be deemed to be an occasional licence granted under subsection (4) of the said section 17 in relation to that weapon.

That's just one example of time limited stuff still in existence since 1964. There are plenty more before you ever get near the 2006 act.

A restatement of the firearms acts will of necessity require a great many amendments to make it all fit together so even after this little miscellaneous bill there will be another one whenever the restatement takes place.

tonysopprano

rrpc wrote: »

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Exactly where did you get this please?

And this is the shooting forum, not the making stuff up and trolling with it forum.

First group will be pistol owners-READ THE BILL. As soon as he can in July(presuming he can get CJB passed), with NO EXTENSION for pistol owners-READ THE BILL.Commissioner will write to you and let you know to reapply and all to be sorted out before 31st July-READ THE BILL. He reckons 1800 pistols now but probably 1600-1700 re-applications refused-ONLY THE FIGURE IS SPECULATION, THAT'S WHY THE WORD PROBABLY WAS USED with new requirements-READ THE BILL etc(those surving will get 1 year licence-READ THE BILL).Then he moves onto shotguns and rifles-READ THE BILL with 12 months to refuse/ban re-applications. That is why he has said selective groups and not alphabetically or random.


Now, RRPC, what part do you recon was made up?

bunny shooter

Half-cocked wrote: »

That would be a big U-turn by the Minister. Didn't he only sign an S.I. last year making anything up to and including 7.62mm unrestricted? Mind you, U-turns and FFers seem to go hand in hand.

And with their recent performance in the elections do you reckon they will want a diversion and a scapegoat :eek: