Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2009

Sparks

Half-cocked wrote: »

Whats this about a round of applause?

Funny thing about meetings, they tend to last more than four seconds and cover more than one topic, so it's childishly cynical of the Minister to make out that a round of applause for one statement is an endorsement of another. And it's a lot more likely he was applauded for saying he'd go to the Minister for Sport than for saying he was banning something.

rowa

Half-cocked wrote: »

A Minister using anecdotal evidence to justify a course of action??? OMG, next thing you'll be accusing our political class of all sorts of underhand and unethical behaviour:eek:

It is you who should be ashamed of yourself, trying to sully the reputation of such an honourable and upstanding profession. How dare you! You're obviously unfit to hold a licensed firearm;)

suppose you're right seeing as he is following in the footsteps of such delightful people as ray burke ,

Sparks

daveob007 wrote: »

So whats the next stage?

Well, the Committee stage was completed on Thursday, so now it goes back to the Dail, who send it on to the Seanad, and then they send it to Committee again, and then back to the Seanad for a final vote from them, and then back to the Dail for a final vote from there, and then to the President for signing into law.

Grizzly 45

And this is all to be done before they all eff off for another three months in appx 10 days time?:rolleyes:
Talk to day in the Irish Indo of seven bills to be guillotined thru the Dail next week..Any chance this could be one of them???
Is anyone getting the feeling,that 3year plastic gun liscenses are not going to be issued on August1st this year??
To be continued...in October?

Sparks

That would seem to be likely Grizzly.

Rovi

There's a report on the committee stage in today's Irish Times:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0619/1224249120046.html

...and in our own Press Clippings thread:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=60775387&postcount=122

Though it's not reported in the article, the term 'IPSC' was read into the record, closely followed by this:

Irish Times, Friday, June 19, 2009 wrote:

Mr Ahern said he was determined to stamp out a practice known as “practical shooting”. His department had monitored with concern “competitions in which people shoot their way through multi-stage target courses based on real life combat scenarios, such as a home invasion or a hostage rescue”.

I also seem to remember a bit about people running around the woods shooting at humanoid pop-up targets in or around the same time, but I'm not certain of its context as regards the above.

Rovi

Half-cocked wrote: »

Whats this about a round of applause? Sure it wasn't a slow hand clap?

The Minister said it was a round of applause at the conclusion of the meeting.

Rovi

Sparks wrote: »

We'll have to wait for the transcripts to be sure, but I'd feel comfortable hazarding a guess that they were referring to one of Des Crofton's pieces on pistol ownership.

Correct.

Half-cocked

Rovi wrote: »

The Minister said it was a round of applause at the conclusion of the meeting.

Then possibly a polite few claps rather than a standing ovation in support of our crusading Minister and his mission to eradicate our 'American style gun culture'?

Rovi

Half-cocked wrote: »

Then possibly a polite few claps rather than a standing ovation in support of our crusading Minister and his mission to eradicate our 'American style gun culture'?

That would be my suspicion too, or more likely a polite round of applause as would be afforded to any dignitary by a civilised audience on any such occasion, but I wasn't at that meeting so can't say one way or the other.

meathshooter

The Minister reiterated several times that he has the support of the FCP in his position on these matters, and at one point proudly announced that he has received a round of applause at the recent meeting.


must have been from the firearms dealers that will make all the money
cause he is banning personal imports wonder was there any brown envelopes

PJ Hunter

Half-cocked wrote: »

Then possibly a polite few claps rather than a standing ovation in support of our crusading Minister and his mission to eradicate our 'American style gun culture'?

nearly everyone has watched american style gun culture growing up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awskKWzjlhk&feature=related
the internet is everywhere!!

daveob007

The minister is worried about ireland having a handgun culture like the us.
check out www.smithandwesson.com
on the home page they give 3 reasons to own a smith and wesson handgun/ 1 protection/2 concealment/3 sporting use.
have we ever seen an add like that in any paper or shooting mag in this country?
no and we never will we are a sporting nation and even if we had 18,000 handguns licenced here they would all be used for sporting purposes only.
So where is he going with that one?
also hangun owners in the us have no restrictions in place where they have to have a safe and home alarm system
thats why so many are stolen and used in crime over there.
come on minister give us a break with this us gun culture thing.

rowa

i am sure any american living or working in this country must be insulted by aherns remarks , an american style gun culture , fianna fail have been preaching american style everything for years now , american business practice etc , and pleading with american multinationals to set up and do business here , they would also not hear a word said against the american troups landing in shannon despite pretty clear opposition from many ,
i have a friend serving with the american airforce , his first station was in north dakota , he told me how he bought his first guns when he went over there -
" i went into the shop in bismark , i picked out a desert eagle in .357 mag , i showed my airforce id which meant i didn't have to wait the 5 days , i gave the gunshop owner my credit card , he boxed up the pistol and i left "
he reckons it took 10 or 12 minutes to buy a pistol .
for me it took many months , a visit from the crime prevention officer , an alarm and a safe installed , locks fitted on everything and even then the licence wasn't guaranteed.
BIG DIFFERENCE AHERN !

Grizzly 45

We here in Ireland are always great at adopting the crap from the USA,but never any of the good things.:(:mad:.

A round of applause...we all knows he is great at exxaggeration,so maybe it was his own dept flunkies doing the clapping to toady it with the boss.:rolleyes:

rowa

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

We here in Ireland are always great at adopting the crap from the USA,but never any of the good things.:(:mad:.

A round of applause...we all knows he is great at exxaggeration,so maybe it was his own dept flunkies doing the clapping to toady it with the boss.:rolleyes:

i believe, from what i've heard that he is supposed to be an intensely ambitious person , nothing wrong with that , its when you start to build your career on the backs of ordinary law abiding people ,it gets nauseating , i don't think his ego is going to allow him to have the firearms part of the bill amended .

BornToKill

Ó Snodaigh welcomes firearms measures in Criminal Justice Bill 2009




Sinn Féin Justice Spokesperson Aengus Ó Snodaigh TD has said the Criminal
Justice Bill 2009 will not address gangland crime but represents a welcome
development in terms of prudent gun control. Deputy Ó Snodaigh said the
Bill will help prevent the development of a gun culture in Ireland while
ensuring that Ireland continues to be proudly represented by talented
target shooters at Olympic type events into the future.


Speaking at Committee stage of the Bill Deputy Ó Snodaigh said, “The new
firearms provisions contained in this Bill will not address gangland crime
but they do represent a welcome development in terms of prudent gun
control.


“The Bill bans high calibre handguns while allowing lower calibre handguns
for use in sports recognised by the Olympic Committee to continue to be
licensed. I believe both the sporting tradition and the public at large
should welcome this Bill.


“I am proposing a number of amendments including that any future further
prohibitions of firearms types by the Minister be brought before the
Oireachtas Justice Committee so that the implications, if any, for sporting
activities can be properly considered and debated in advance.


“By banning high calibre handguns and the so-called sports involving combat
based simulations and by introducing a more comprehensive and effective
licensing regime for all other firearms this Bill will help prevent the
development of a gun culture and perhaps reduce the shameful instances of
Irish people acting as mercenaries and interfering with democratic
processes abroad while ensuring that Ireland continues to be proudly
represented by talented target shooters at Olympic type events into the
future.


“In addition I called on the Minister today to investigate the potential
for forensic testing and recording of licensed firearms in the future and
the possibility of pursuing a measure at EU level for the mandatory GPS
chipping of firearms during the manufacturing stage.”

Chips??? Mmmmmmmm.

rowa

that statement would be hilarious if it wasn't so sick,the kettle calling the pot black springs to mind , no wonder people are sick of politics and don't bother voting anymore, i thought sinn fein would have kept themselves quiet , after all there party offices in parnell square still have tat for sale with " sniper at work " etc on it, sick

sikasmicke

Sparks wrote: »

I'll hold off on commenting on your sources of information rowa, except to tell you to find more knowledgeable ones (well, than one of them at least), or to just call up the department and ask. They're not the CIA y'know, they will talk to lowly mortals and answer questions...
Air pistols will be licenced in the same manner as .22 rifles, air rifles, shotguns and .22 pistols. That's the plan at least, and so far as I know, no-one's even slightly worried about airguns. They're just not seen as being worth worrying about by the DoJ.

I presume you are referring to that DC fella, when it comes to knowing nothing about whats going on!

Grizzly 45

I think O Snotty has gone and put both feet in the Beal Mor of his!:D
Mecenaries interfering with democratic processes abroad.
Dont mention Columbia,and " FARC bird watching"!:eek::rolleyes:

What a <snip>!!:mad::mad::mad:That coming from a party spokesman that actively contributed to us not having handguns for thirty five years here,while their terrorist wing ran amuck here and in the UK,killing innocents.
Still selling in their little shop of horrors T shirts glorifying a butcher organisation that calls itself an army??They now have the Gall to lecture here on firearms issues??:mad::mad::mad:
Bet now like with the bloodsports statement,they will wheedle and worm out of this as well..Hyprocrites all.

rowa

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I think O Snotty has gone and put both feet in the Beal Mor of his!:D
Mecenaries interfering with democratic processes abroad.
Dont mention Columbia,and " FARC bird watching"!:eek::rolleyes:

What a <snip>!!:mad::mad::mad:That coming from a party spokesman that actively contributed to us not having handguns for thirty five years here,while their terrorist wing ran amuck here and in the UK,killing innocents.
Still selling in their little shop of horrors T shirts glorifying a butcher organisation that calls itself an army??They now have the Gall to lecture here on firearms issues??:mad::mad::mad:
Bet now like with the bloodsports statement,they will wheedle and worm out of this as well..Hyprocrites all.

^ what he said !
seriously though it is unbelieveable , it is surreal , its like when mary loo stood up in trinity college and denied that the ira had anything to do with the northern bank robbery , they had to take a break while people composed themselves and stopped laughing,
this o'snotty character is a bit of a loose cannon and its not the first time he got his size 10 stuck in his gob , his little band of murderous friends never bothered too much with the laws of this state and brought what ever firearms they wanted into the country by the boat load , what next martin ferris making a statement ......

Sparks

Okay, point made (and appreciated). But if we run off down that road, we'll lose the point of the thread very quickly, so let's get back on course?

Sparks

sikasmicke wrote: »

I presume you are referring to that DC fella, when it comes to knowing nothing about whats going on!

No. And since the other fella is banned from the entire boards.ie website, we won't discuss this in public (besides, it's all over the archives).

kowloon

Why do <they> keep focusing on calibre? Has the meaning of the word still not been explained to them?

Meyer

Back on topic, Is there any chance that this bill can still be amended, Or is it now only a formality before it becomes law?

BornToKill

Meyer wrote: »

Back on topic, Is there any chance that this bill can still be amended, Or is it now only a formality before it becomes law?

Amendments are still possible at Report stage in the Dáil or when the Bill is referred to the Seanad. Amendments made in the Seanad, however, do not have to be adopted when the Bill comes back to the Dáil. You'll likely get a better explanation from someone more versed in these things but that's my basic understanding. Most amendments are debated and made at Dáil Committee stage (last Thursday).

rowa

did ahearn appear to take any of the points made by the opposition onboard or is that too much to wish for ?

chem

BornToKill wrote: »

Amendments are still possible at Report stage in the Dáil or when the Bill is referred to the Seanad. Amendments made in the Seanad, however, do not have to be adopted when the Bill comes back to the Dáil. You'll likely get a better explanation from someone more versed in these things but that's my basic understanding. Most amendments are debated and made at Dáil Committee stage (last Thursday).

So what amendments were made/ proposed?

BornToKill

We know what amendments were proposed and I think they were on here earlier.

As to what was accepted we'll have to wait and see.

chem

BornToKill wrote: »

We know what amendments were proposed and I think they were on here earlier.

As to what was accepted we'll have to wait and see.

The changes proposed are next to useless. Any of the crazy stuff the minister has in the bill is going to be still in it. Noone proposed allowing the ownership of pistols to continue here. Pointless.