Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2009

Grizzly 45

Not to mind that some of this is Flanagans personal hobby horse.All that stuff about it being an offence not to report stolen firearms..... OH DUH!!:(.The rest of it a little bit of tinkering and fiddling for gun dealers,not much else..So much for the great white hope of Irish gunowners!!:mad:

JunkieW

I heard from someone in Labour that they've been talking mostly to IPSC people and that they didn't know that there were other sports using fullbore pistols. They think it's only practical use fullbore.

chem

JunkieW wrote: »

I heard from someone in Labour that they've been talking mostly to IPSC people and that they didn't know that there were other sports using fullbore pistols. They think it's only practical use fullbore.

Even so. The sport still dies if no new certs are issues for fullbore pistols:rolleyes:

daveob007

Even with those changes we are still going to be screwed.
nothing in ther for the provision of changing firearms by current holders,so basically we are stuck with what we have and be be unable to trade in any of our full bore stuff.
I wont be trading in a 9mm for an air pistol or a .22 rimfire but would be interested in getting one as a second gun.
Looks like the only people who will gain anything is the dealers.
That statement from the shinners is worring at best and it shows support for ahern.
Maybe if we forward our objections to the sinn fein party they might do a u turn like they did with the blood sports issue.
Sorry lads but from where i am sitting things dont look good at all.

finnlite

daveob007 wrote: »

Even with those changes we are still going to be screwed.
nothing in ther for the provision of changing firearms by current holders,so basically we are stuck with what we have and be be unable to trade in any of our full bore stuff.
I wont be trading in a 9mm for an air pistol or a .22 rimfire but would be interested in getting one as a second gun.
Looks like the only people who will gain anything is the dealers.
That statement from the shinners is worring at best and it shows support for ahern.
Maybe if we forward our objections to the sinn fein party they might do a u turn like they did with the blood sports issue.
Sorry lads but from where i am sitting things dont look good at all.

how will the dealers make money if the market is dead .full bore pistols are worthless now .

Rovi

Just as a point of information on the 'applause' mentioned above, it's been strongly pointed out to me by a person who WAS at the Ministerial/FCP meeting, that the applause was a polite display of good manners to the position of Minister for Justice as the meeting rose and wound up.
It most certainly was not (from this person's point of view, and as far as he can tell, from the point of view of the other shooting representatives on FCP) in any way intended as an indication of support and acquiescence to the Minister's policies.

bunny shooter

Why on God's green earth did they deem it necessary to give him a round of applause at all? :rolleyes:

After what he has said and done ! Cowing down to the likes of him only convinces him he's right. The radical right of the FF party needs to realise they cannot use the jack-boot on us IMO !

CJhaughey

finnlite wrote: »

how will the dealers make money if the market is dead .full bore pistols are worthless now .

The minister is also trying to ban personal imports, he wants you to have to buy from a RFD here in the state.
In other words create a RFD Cartel.

chem

Does the minister not realise, that in Northern Ireland, pistols have alway been on licence? PP goes on there as well as cowboy shoots (which des crofton seems to have a problem with as well). All happening up the road from us without problem. Its a shame all pistol shooters are to be the lambs offered up to the almighty minister. Also nice to see the groups on the FCP are as quite as ever as to what was said at the last meeting. Oh.............unless you know someone, who knows someone..........dont say this to anyone but........from what I was told by someone...........SAME OLD CRAP!!!

Grizzly 45

it's been strongly pointed out to me by a person who WAS at the Ministerial/FCP meeting, that the applause was a polite display of good manners to the position of Minister for Justice as the meeting rose and wound up.

God!Are we still THAT subserveient here??:rolleyes:

chem

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

God!Are we still THAT subserveient here??:rolleyes:

YES

Morning govner;).........tips cap:rolleyes:

rowa

i am already experiencing difficulty in getting centre fire pistol ammo , i was talking to some dealers yesterday and they tell me no one is buying anything to do with pistols at the moment , so i think suggestions of a cosy cartel of rfd is incorrect , it won't be worth there while bringing in pistol ammo if the market is too small or if they do it'll be at exorbitant prices .

what is des croftons agenda anyone ?

finnlite

rowa wrote: »

i am already experiencing difficulty in getting centre fire pistol ammo , i was talking to some dealers yesterday and they tell me no one is buying anything to do with pistols at the moment , so i think suggestions of a cosy cartel of rfd is incorrect , it won't be worth there while bringing in pistol ammo if the market is too small or if they do it'll be at exorbitant prices .

what is des croftons agenda anyone ?

i would think to protect the sport of the 28,000 none pistol shooters under his wing.

chem

finnlite wrote: »

i would think to protect the sport of the 28,000 none pistol shooters under his wing.

At the cost of 1800 pistol shooters?

macnas

finnlite wrote: »

i would think to protect the sport of the 28,000 none pistol shooters under his wing.

I'm an NARGC member and a pistol owner, he's not f**king protecting me. The rest of the FCP sat on their hands and let this guy dictate policy, cosy up to justice officials and let him kill off a shooting sport. SHAME!

bunny shooter

"Eaten bread soon forgotten" :mad:

Just to remind you lads that it was the NARGC that took the initial case and put it's/my (I am a member for a good few years at this stage) funds behind the court case that means those of us that have/had pistols actually has/had them.

Des Crofton has personally gotten a pistol licencing problem sorted for me and one of my friends too. He has recently helped me with another rifle application as has another person who sits on the FCP (cheers Joe ). I am an FCP sceptic BUT without it I would still be experiencing problems with my firearms applications without these people.

We have problems now with pistols NOT because of Des Crofton and/or the FCP but mainly because of the stupid actions of certain sections of the pistol owning community in this country !!!!!!!!! (and most of us know who they are and what they have done !!!!!!!!!) and the Minister for Justice !!!!!!!!!!!

CJhaughey

rowa wrote: »

i am already experiencing difficulty in getting centre fire pistol ammo , i was talking to some dealers yesterday and they tell me no one is buying anything to do with pistols at the moment , so i think suggestions of a cosy cartel of rfd is incorrect , it won't be worth there while bringing in pistol ammo if the market is too small or if they do it'll be at exorbitant prices .

I am not just talking about pistols, this is about all firearms.
If that is not a cartel I am not sure what is.

chem

bunny shooter wrote: »

"Eaten bread soon forgotten" :mad:

Just to remind you lads that it was the NARGC that took the initial case and put it's/my (I am a member for a good few years at this stage) funds behind the court case that means those of us that have/had pistols actually has/had them.

Des Crofton has personally gotten a pistol licencing problem sorted for me and one of my friends too. He has recently helped me with another rifle application as has another person who sits on the FCP (cheers Joe ). I am an FCP sceptic BUT without it I would still be experiencing problems with my firearms applications without these people.

We have problems now with pistols NOT because of Des Crofton but mainly because of the stupid actions of certain sections of the pistol owning community in this country !!!!!!!!! (and most of us know who they are and what they have done !!!!!!!!!) and the Minister for Justice !!!!!!!!!!!

Bunny Des then posted a piece in the ISD about PP and cowboy shoots. Now the minister is using it as a stick to beat us! Des is great for sorting problems with supers etc but it looks like pistol shooters, are been scapegoated now. He also said the NARGC would never take the government to court again. So that gives the minister free run, to put into law anything he likes without fear of challange. Unless we have a few millionaires out there??

bunny shooter

chem wrote: »

Bunny Des then posted a piece in the ISD about PP and cowboy shoots. Now the minister is using it as a stick to beat us! Des is great for sorting problems with supers etc but it looks like pistol shooters, are been scapegoated now. He also said the NARGC would never take the government to court again. So that gives the minister free run, to put into law anything he likes without fear of challange. Unless we have a few millionaires out there??

Agreed, but he was if I remember rightly relaying information he had recieved from DOJ to us not making policies himself and he was publically supported by NASRPC (ISD refers).

I agree pistol shooters are being scapegoated by certain interested shooting sport participants but it's not by Des and the NARGC

He said the cases would stop as long as there was no need for them if I remember right (ISD refers).

The Firearms Policy Unit has been set up to sort any potential cases before they happen and IMO it is a great mechanism and if nothing else comes from this FCP process it is a major step forward.

There has been at least one High Court case going against pistol applications therefore this sets a bad precedent for aspiring pistol shooters in the courts and if you know anything about court procedure it is all about precedent. In the light of this the Minister has put on the jack-boots and now we are where we are IMO.

(will see can I find relevant copies of ISD, they are at home)

bunny shooter

Chem, it must not be forgotten that the practical pistol organisation, which I believe you were a member of, voluntarilly wound itself up in order to save all pistols being withdrawn by THE MINISTER.

meathshooter

pawns in a big game of chess,nargc have got what they wanted,dealers got the same,us pistol shooters bare the price,I will never vote fianna fail again If I loose my pistols

meathshooter

bunny shooter wrote: »

Chem, it must not be forgotten that the practical pistol organisation, which I believe you were a member of, voluntarilly wound itself up in order to save all pistols being withdrawn by THE MINISTER.

As far as I know they were given an ultimatum either wind up and keep what you have or stay and keep noting under them cercumstances I coundnt blame them Im not ipsa by the way and thats just my take on it

bunny shooter

meathshooter wrote: »

As far as I know they were given an ultimatum either wind up and keep what you have or stay and keep noting under them cercumstances I coundnt blame them Im not ipsa by the way and thats just my take on it

I know and I agree with your take on it

bunny shooter

meathshooter wrote: »

pawns in a big game of chess,nargc have got what they wanted,dealers got the same,us pistol shooters bare the price,I will never vote fianna fail again If I loose my pistols

Please explain what NARGC stand to gain?

chem

bunny shooter wrote: »

Chem, it must not be forgotten that the practical pistol organisation, which I believe you were a member of, voluntarilly wound itself up in order to save all pistols being withdrawn by THE MINISTER.

Bunny, I wasnt a member of the PP organisation. I was in the middle of getting a licence for a 9mm browning. Had my alarm up grade and alot of money spent on other security around the house. The the minister made his statment. So now i have to move my pistol to a club in the north to shoot it.

credit to the lads in PP. But the minister might still have a sting in his tail. He can ban anything he likes for any reason givin. Id not hold out much hope for any pistols here in the future.

If he can invent the laws before they are written eg: de facto ban on pistols after his statment. What will he do when he has the law behind him

How that de facto ban was not challanged is beyond me

meathshooter

bunny shooter wrote: »

Please explain what NARGC stand to gain?

for a start they wont be spending money on high court cases have direct contact with doj and gardai at highest levels afterall the main intrests are not pistols cause there clearly not now protecting there members now who have pistols

Grizzly 45

meathshooter wrote: »

As far as I know they were given an ultimatum either wind up and keep what you have or stay and keep noting under them cercumstances I coundnt blame them Im not ipsa by the way and thats just my take on it

Intrestingly that ultimatum was apprently passed onto ipsa by Des himself after making repersantations to both DOJ and was echoed from the Tainiste as well.This was discussed at the EGM in Dec 08.
So the smallest group has been scarificed of the smallest group[ of gun owners in Ireland...:(:(.A case of the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few???? Well and good,BUT what did the many gain?????
Not much by the looks of things.:mad:

Grizzly 45

How that de facto ban was not challanged is beyond me

The maxim of a good general or lawyer is to know when to fight a case or a battle on the ground of your choosing.This is not yet the time or the place for this.It will come.......;):)

IRLConor

chem wrote: »

How that de facto ban was not challanged is beyond me

Probably because it was legal. There'd be no grounds to challenge it on. It sucks, but things can be grossly unfair and yet still legal.

Grizzly 45

Not quite...But I wont say more here on this.
The enemy reads here too!:eek: