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Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information


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Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2009

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    #1172
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    That's not what the law says or will say, dismayed.


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    #1173
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 15,024 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Sorry,what this "extension to November "bit Dismayed?

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #1174
    Dr Strange
    Registered Users Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭Dr Strange


    I am a bit confused now. Does this mean I will have to reapply for my rifle licenses or just renew them :confused:


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    #1175
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    You have to reapply for them this year Preusse.


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    #1176
    Dr Strange
    Registered Users Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭Dr Strange


    Awh bloody hell....


    Thanks Sparks


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    #1177
    It wasn't me!
    Registered Users Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    And is everything being reconsidered all the way along? In my district alone, there are probably a very significant number of the country's firearms, so if the one person has to plough his way through that paperwork mountain, it'll be next year before anyone sees a licence come back. Will all the guns have to be handed in meanwhile while deliberation takes place? Is there any point having an application in the pipe at the moment or the near future?


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    #1178
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Don't know the answers to those IWM and I'm about 99% sure noone else does either. At least the paperwork is moderated by the staggering of the dates.


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    #1179
    It wasn't me!
    Registered Users Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    Sparks wrote: »
    Don't know the answers to those IWM and I'm about 99% sure noone else does either. At least the paperwork is moderated by the staggering of the dates.

    Well, depending on the length of the extension, and the efficiency or otherwise of the Gardai, your time could run out and you'd need to hand in the firearms. And if they rush to approve applications to avoid this, it seems to be very much an empty action (not that it doesn't in the first place) and makes a mockery of the idea of reapplying from scratch.


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    #1180
    daveob007
    Registered Users Posts: 983 ✭✭✭daveob007


    Just in case this is relevant that mail i got from crofton was sent on 20/11/08
    this was in a response to a question i had regarding my pistol.
    was looking for a member of the fcp to answer a question and thats why des crofton replied as a member of the fcp.
    actually now that i think of it when i applied to my garda station in july last year the sergeant told me that there was to be new legislation that would govern the licencing of new pistols.
    did'nt think much of it the time but looking at it now it looks like this has been in the pipeline for a while.
    I also believe that senior gardai had a lot to do with the whole thing.

    did the bill goes to the seanad yesterday and if so what happened.


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    #1181
    BornToKill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭BornToKill


    You will get a letter giving you an extension. The extension could be from three months to twelve months.

    Three months before your extension runs out, you will be called in to apply for a new license. The guards will now have three months to decide on an application.

    If refused, or if no decision is made within the three months, you have a right of appeal. If granted, the new license will last for three years.

    Section 28 of the bill:
    http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/bills28/bills/2009/2909/b29a09d.pdf


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    #1182
    BornToKill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭BornToKill


    daveob007 wrote: »
    did the bill goes to the seanad yesterday

    Yes.
    daveob007 wrote: »
    and if so what happened.

    This:
    http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=SEN20090703.xml&Node=H4&Page=3


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    #1183
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 15,024 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    actually now that i think of it when i applied to my garda station in july last year the sergeant told me that there was to be new legislation that would govern the licencing of new pistols.
    did'nt think much of it the time but looking at it now it looks like this has been in the pipeline for a while.

    Got the same response down here last year in July as well.All handguns would be gone by July 2009.Well, 98% correct sofar on that:(

    Posted it here as well.The rest is as they say history....:rolleyes:
    I also believe that senior gardai had a lot to do with the whole thing.
    No doubt!!:(

    After reading the Senad debate ,Iam impressed at at least the somwhat more rational points being made there than in the Dail.But will this change anything?

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #1184
    .270 remington
    Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭.270 remington


    who is the ministers advisers on the relevant sections of the cjb ?


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    #1185
    rowa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,296 ✭✭✭rowa


    .270 remington wrote: »
    who is the ministers advisers on the relevant sections of the cjb ?

    senior gardai telling the minister horror stories that kept him up at night and also they showed him video footage of a practical pistol shoot . wind him up and watch him go.


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    #1186
    .270 remington
    Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭.270 remington


    are their names public record ??


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    #1187
    rowa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,296 ✭✭✭rowa


    it was justice charlton bringing it to the attention of the minister after a court case and then the commissioner murphy made a song and dance about having to licence glocks when these were the very pistols he was taking off the streets of limerick.


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    #1188
    daveob007
    Registered Users Posts: 983 ✭✭✭daveob007


    rowa wrote: »
    it was justice charlton bringing it to the attention of the minister after a court case and then the commissioner murphy made a song and dance about having to licence glocks when these were the very pistols he was taking off the streets of limerick.

    Taken off the streets is one thing but taking them from law abiding licence holders is another.
    just sick of the same old crap been about glocks/usa gun culture/combat stlye shooting.
    the commishioner/justice charltons opinions seem to be heard more than the hundreds of people who protested against the bill.
    Just goes to show that when it comes to FF money and power take priority above all else.


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    #1189
    meathshooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 329 ✭✭meathshooter


    what happens next,will they allow existing certs before 18/9/08 and people who applied before that date and only got the cert after 18/11/08 to keep them as Des crofton said in his email or has he been feed of load of political horsesh!!!! by the minister for make it up as I go:confused:


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    #1190
    packas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 411 ✭✭packas


    BornToKill wrote: »
    You will get a letter giving you an extension. The extension could be from three months to twelve months.

    Three months before your extension runs out, you will be called in to apply for a new license. The guards will now have three months to decide on an application.

    If refused, or if no decision is made within the three months, you have a right of appeal. If granted, the new license will last for three years.

    Section 28 of the bill:
    http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/bills28/bills/2009/2909/b29a09d.pdf

    Will you get your euro firearms pass extended also do you think? It will be some fun explaining this to Police & customs in other countries that people travel to to compete in competitions :confused::confused:


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    #1191
    BornToKill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭BornToKill


    packas wrote: »
    Will you get your euro firearms pass extended also do you think? It will be some fun explaining this to Police & customs in other countries that people travel to to compete in competitions :confused::confused:

    I don't know what will happen with the EFP. Maybe someone else can help on that ...


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    #1192
    Sikamick
    Registered Users Posts: 804 ✭✭✭Sikamick


    It wasn't me! wrote: »
    Well, depending on the length of the extension, and the efficiency or otherwise of the Gardai, your time could run out and you'd need to hand in the firearms. And if they rush to approve applications to avoid this, it seems to be very much an empty action (not that it doesn't in the first place) and makes a mockery of the idea of reapplying from scratch.
    _________________________________________________________________

    IWM the Miss Bill is a complete and utter disaster, in particular one example is that we all have to reapply, the need to supply references what a joke.

    The best references I have is 38 years of firearms licences passed and cleared by the Garda, do the DOJ not believe in there own people or the system that has worked for my licenses over 38 years.

    Bureaucracy of the highest order, the civil service is not noted for their efficiency in dealing with paperwork, I think they will drown in the mountain of paper work they will receive.

    Question re new license application : 8 page document, two Pass Port Photos, Copy of you Birth Cert, Doctors details, etc etc etc. The question is, does one have to supply these for each firearm you hold if so 8 pages x250,000 approx licenses = 2 million documents and they are already making civil servants redundant (JOKE).

    Re fee 80 euro for the three year license = 26.6666667 per year it's only a civil servant would come up with an uneven number rather than rounding it off.

    Poster Dismayed, no wonder you are.

    Sikamick


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    #1193
    PJ Hunter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 209 ✭✭PJ Hunter


    sikamick= pages x250,000 approx licenses = 2 million documents and they are already letting civil servants go (JOKE).

    is every firearm not listed down on the one sheet if you have more than the one firearm. would this save on money, time and paper. visit the the doctor for every license and he'll think your mad.


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    #1194
    BornToKill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭BornToKill


    Sikamick wrote: »
    _________________________________________________________________

    the civil service is not noted for their efficiency in dealing with paperwork, I think they will drown in the mountain of paper work they will receive...

    Re fee 80 euro for the three year license = 26.6666667 per year it's only a civil servant would come up with an uneven number rather than rounding it off.

    Sikamick

    Three things. Firstly, it won't be the civil service dealing with this paperwork; it will be the guards.

    Secondly, €80 is a round number. You'll pay €80 and get a three year license. Dividing it by three does not have meaning.

    Thirdly, you won't be asked to supply references, you will be asked to supply the names of two referees.


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    #1195
    Sikamick
    Registered Users Posts: 804 ✭✭✭Sikamick


    BornToKill wrote: »
    Three things. Firstly, it won't be the civil service dealing with this paperwork; it will be the guards.

    Secondly, €80 is a round number. You'll pay €80 and get a three year license. Dividing it by three does not have meaning.

    Thirdly, you won't be asked to supply references, you will be asked to supply the names of two referees.


    _________________________________________________________________

    Points taken, one question though, (it will be the guards) are they going to any more efficient than the civil service, (History of licenses application processing) Months to process ONE firearms license application???.

    [/QUOTE]Born to kill : Thirdly, you won't be asked to supply references, you will be asked to supply the names of two referees: Who and why, can one give the name of your local Superintendent, he knows more about you than most people.


    Sikamick


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    #1196
    Sikamick
    Registered Users Posts: 804 ✭✭✭Sikamick


    PJ Hunter wrote: »
    sikamick= pages x250,000 approx licenses = 2 million documents and they are already letting civil servants go (JOKE).

    is every firearm not listed down on the one sheet if you have more than the one firearm. would this save on money, time and paper.
    Maybe someone here like Born To Kill can answer this

    How many Garda are going to be tied-up in this mountain of paper work, should they not be out on the beat catching the gun toting criminals.

    Sikamick


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    #1197
    BornToKill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭BornToKill


    Sikamick wrote: »
    _________________________________________________________________

    Points taken, one question though, (it will be the guards) are they going to any more efficient than the civil service, (History of licenses application processing) Months to process ONE firearms license application???.

    ...can one give the name of your local Superintendent, he knows more about you than most people.

    Sikamick

    Mick, I don't understand your point on civil service inefficiency. The guards have always licensed guns and they will continue to do so. They will be obliged to decide on an application within three months; failure to do so is deemed a refusal. So no more applications where you can't drag an answer out of your station.

    A member of the guards won't be able to act as a referee.

    By the way, none of this is new stuff. It all came from the findings of the Barr Tribunal after Abbeylara and was made the law three years ago. Misc. Provisions Bill 2006.

    It is not in the current Misc. bill but now that the three year license is starting the references and all that are part of the same package.


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    #1198
    PJ Hunter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 209 ✭✭PJ Hunter


    Sikamick wrote: »
    Maybe someone here like Born To Kill can answer this

    How many Garda are going to be tied-up in this mountain of paper work, should they not be out on the beat catching the gun toting criminals.

    Sikamick

    if the application / renewal form has room for all the firearm you own the gardai won't be getting that tied up pushing pen's sikamick? it would be hard to believe everyone renewing and the gardai themselves will be form filling to this extent. no wonder so many were once needed to run the country:confused:


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    #1199
    Sikamick
    Registered Users Posts: 804 ✭✭✭Sikamick


    BornToKill wrote: »
    Mick, I don't understand your point on civil service inefficiency. The guards have always licensed guns and they will continue to do so. They will be obliged to decide on an application within three months; failure to do so is deemed a refusal. So no more applications where you can't drag an answer out of your station. I'm not trying to P you off, but do you really believe that they are going to be that efficient.

    A member of the guards won't be able to act as a referee. Again question ? WHO does one put down as a referee and why when they (the Guards) have 38 years of my renewals i.e. letters from farmers,club letters, copies of courses done etc. etc. etc.

    Sikamick


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    #1200
    Sikamick
    Registered Users Posts: 804 ✭✭✭Sikamick


    PJ Hunter wrote: »
    if the application / renewal form has room for all the firearm you own the gardai won't be getting that tied up pushing pen's sikamick? it would be hard to believe everyone renewing and the gardai themselves will be form filling to this extent. no wonder so many were once needed to run the country:confused:


    _________________________________________________________________

    Maybe Sparks might be able to respond to the question ? - 8 page document, will one have to complete 8 pages for each firearm.

    Sikamick


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    #1201
    rowa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,296 ✭✭✭rowa


    who is eligable to be give a reference , is a wife , brother , sister , eligible ?
    surely that is open to abuse or is it just a case of the guards and doj having something to cover there own ass in case of an incident like abbeylara again ?
    i can see the guards refusing to renew any centrefire pistol licences at all , after all who is going to assist a shooter getting to court ? the nargc and all the rest of the turn coats aren't going to help now are they ?


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