Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2009

daveob007

Darr wrote: »

And here is the NEWS

Ahern signs new gun control act into law

Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/eykfsnsnauid/rss2/

I thought it was the president who had to sign this into law.
that media report is a bit inaccurate (hanguns banned i ireland)
they failed to mention the current licence holders or the exceptions for olympic sports.

Darr

sure Dave old chap he probably made himself president seems that man can do whatever he wishes onces its not based in reality ..

Does anyone here belive that the scumbags wont be in the EU court at some stage ,with a good chance of winning (on breaching there (in) human rights or some other PC rule) (the criminal aspect of the bills )

Tis only law abiding citizens have anything to fear from this guy ..(blashemy & FA control)

Darr

daveob007

I think we should make our case to the council for civil liberties,
they were up in arms over the new laws and the way it might affect the scumbags.
maybe they could stand up for us and the way our civil liberties have been breached......

Grizzly 45

ICCL are no friends of gunowners,and are about as useful as a half door on a submarine.We would be better off talking to the Girl Guides for somthing like this.Not only that seeing that FACs are a "privilige" here rather than in more enlightned countries a "right".What civil liberty has been encroached,that ICCL could feel "concerned" about???:rolleyes:

OTOH we could form a religion of gunowners and hunters and be mightly offended when anyone in the future writes nasty things about us and blasphemes our religion.:)

Vegeta

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

ICCL are no friends of gunowners,and are about as useful as a half door on a submarine.We would be better off talking to the Girl Guides for somthing like this.Not only that seeing that FACs are a "privilige" here rather than in more enlightned countries a "right".What civil liberty has been encroached,that ICCL could feel "concerned" about???:rolleyes:

Spot on I'd imagine. I cant think of any rights we have really which are being encroached upon

milkerman

daveob007 wrote: »

that media report is a bit inaccurate (hanguns banned i ireland)
they failed to mention the current licence holders or the exceptions for olympic sports.

Lets see how things pan out in the next 3 months - that report may be more accurate than you think.

Also, when el Presidente signs the Act it doesnt mean the Act has come into force. The relevant Minister signs a Commencement Order which puts the Act into practice with effect from a given date. It usually states in the early sections of the Act who the relevant Minister is etc.

I have written to Jack Wall TD (Labour) to request his party to put together their proposals on gun law that they can put in place if they form or are part of the next government. Will all of you please contact your local Labour TD's on the same lines.

daveob007

Vegeta wrote: »

Spot on I'd imagine. I cant think of any rights we have really which are being encroached upon

I was only being sarcastic on that one lads.
Its just that the iccl jump to defend wrongdoers all the time and don't seem to care about the civil liberties of the victims of these scumbags.

Bananaman

ok then - no more sniping at people on boards until they do something new or they try to hide what they did already.

Whose ring should I kiss now?

B'Man

guns4fun

Darr wrote: »

And here is the NEWS

Ahern signs new gun control act into law

Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/eykfsnsnauid/rss2/


I feel safer already...(sarcasim folks)

Just reading that report,does that mean that I can't get into pistol shooting unless it's for olympic sports only????
If so am I restricted to olympic air pistol or .22 rimfire pistols only???

I also feel safer (YEAH RIGHT)

Bananaman

"We" - the great unwashed - have no idea what the enacting of the bill will mean.

It contains no specifics - only generalisations.

[1] It prohibits the licensing of 'small firearms'
[2] it prohibits 'practical shooting'
[3] it gives the minister the right, without recourse to the Oireachtais, to prohibit any firearm based on al ist of cirteria (which encompass ALL firearms)
[4] It gives the Minister the Right ot issue Guidlines, via the Commissioner, to Gardai with respect to how to process firearms license applciations.

All of those are open doors - none of the deal with anything specific - they just provide the Minister with the abillity to ban what he wants and make it moreand m,ore difficult to license whatever is not banned, without you or your elected representatives having the opportunity to challenge him.

Until he defines 'small firearms', 'practical shooting' and outlines what types of firearms he will ban under his new powers, we don't have a cobblers.

B'Man

Vegeta

Bananaman wrote: »

ok then - no more sniping at people on boards until they do something new or they try to hide what they did already.

Whose ring should I kiss now?

B'Man

Grow Up

milkerman

Bananaman wrote: »

Whose ring should I kiss now?

B'Man

Your local Garda Superintendent's?:eek:

Darr

Bananaman wrote: »

ok then - no more sniping at people on boards until they do something new or they try to hide what they did already.

Whose ring should I kiss now?

B'Man

personally I couldnt careless whos you kiss if done on private message or a new thread.

Anyways has any one gotten negative feedback regarding rifles from there FAO , mine was quite sure they won’t be effected for the foreseeable future (about 5 days then)
Darr

Sparks

Unstickied after the new Criminal Justice (Misc.Provisions) Act 2009 was signed into law; we'll set up a new thread in its place.

rowa

will there be anyway back for pistols in the very likely event that fianna fail will not (and hopefully never) be re-elected to power ? can this ban on the ownership of pistols be repeeled ?

Darr

rowa wrote: »

will there be anyway back for pistols in the very likely event that fianna fail will not (and hopefully never) be re-elected to power ? can this ban on the ownership of pistols be repeeled ?

I (personal view of this country) imagine that this VERY rarely happens here .. I would also think that as this isnt exactly a popular activity I wouldnt see any party been in too much of a hurry to repeel it .
Darr

rowa

Darr wrote: »

I (personal view of this country) imagine that this VERY rarely happens here .. I would also think that as this isnt exactly a popular activity I wouldnt see any party been in too much of a hurry to repeel it .
Darr

i think you're right darr , i can't wait until the next election to kick these idiots out of office , hopefully forever , the farmers , the shooters , the unemployed , the taxpayers , small business owners and everyone else i can think of, are baying for there blood ,

Trojan911

Have all handguns been revoked or are current holders exempt?

daveob007

Sparks wrote: »

Unstickied after the new Criminal Justice (Misc.Provisions) Act 2009 was signed into law; we'll set up a new thread in its place.

Call it CJB the aftermath

Grizzly 45

rowa wrote: »

i think you're right darr , i can't wait until the next election to kick these idiots out of office , hopefully forever , the farmers , the shooters , the unemployed , the taxpayers , small business owners and everyone else i can think of, are baying for there blood ,

Yeah,and barring a no confidence vote in the Govt [possibly if Ireland still has the good sense to say NO for the second time on Lisbon]or that the swine flu kills off a few thousand of us or an outright revoultion caused by over taxation or other oppressive measures.
The World will be a different place in three years time and by then maybe Fatty Cowen&Co will have figured out a magic trick to appease the masses to vote for them again..Proably when the IMF has marched in here fully equipped with chainsaws,sythes and axes and chopped Govt spending,civil service pensions wages and everything else to the roots.FF will say"well it wasnt us..It was dem furriners who did dis..Vote for us and we'll make shure it wont happen agin."

rrpc

Trojan911 wrote: »

Have all handguns been revoked or are current holders exempt?

Poor old Trojan, like the last man at the scene of the accident trying to make himself heard over the shouts of those already there accusing each other of being at fault.

"I just want to know what happened, was there anyone hurt?"

Sorry, but it just seemed like everyone was ignoring you Trojan and you were wandering from thread to thread trying to get an answer.

I answered your question as best I could on the other thread. Basically if you fulfill some as yet to be determined extra criteria, you get to keep your licence, so long as it was issued before 19/11/2008.

It's like 9/11. In shooting we now have 19/11, kind of appropriate really.

PJ Hunter

rrpc wrote: »

Poor old Trojan, like the last man at the scene of the accident trying to make himself heard over the shouts of those already there accusing each other of being at fault.

"I just want to know what happened, was there anyone hurt?"

Sorry, but it just seemed like everyone was ignoring you Trojan and you were wandering from thread to thread trying to get an answer.

I answered your question as best I could on the other thread. Basically if you fulfill some as yet to be determined extra criteria, you get to keep your licence, so long as it was issued before 19/11/2008.

It's like 9/11. In shooting we now have 19/11, kind of appropriate really.

call it a jcb trojan but if we now have the 1911 in 45,who cares:(

rowa

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Yeah,and barring a no confidence vote in the Govt [possibly if Ireland still has the good sense to say NO for the second time on Lisbon]or that the swine flu kills off a few thousand of us or an outright revoultion caused by over taxation or other oppressive measures.
The World will be a different place in three years time and by then maybe Fatty Cowen&Co will have figured out a magic trick to appease the masses to vote for them again..Proably when the IMF has marched in here fully equipped with chainsaws,sythes and axes and chopped Govt spending,civil service pensions wages and everything else to the roots.FF will say"well it wasnt us..It was dem furriners who did dis..Vote for us and we'll make shure it wont happen agin."

if you remember the last election though ,fianna fail were doomed according to all the pundits and experts , but then they had the money to buy us off , and a lot of people were concerned, ironically that no other party could handle the economy , well they've certainly handled the economy now , they can't pull this stunt now the coffers are empty and people are wiser to them and there tricks .
michael mc dowell was right about them " like watching a monkey trying to fix a television set " or words to that effect.

Cass

Hey lads,

I've been following this thread for the most part since the begining. I've seen the postings (pre the CJB passing) with the speculation and hearsay most of which have come to fruition. So i now want to know what are yer views, opinions or knowledge of the rules for importing or buying new handguns.

I'm currently licensed for a 9mm, of which i've had a couple of different ones over the years. I went to change for another model a few months ago and was denied (not a huge shocker considering the CJB was looming) I got the article 7, letter of approval from the Super but was turned down on the import license. I was told that i did not have a valid reason for having/importing a 9mm pistol (even though i was already licensed and in possession of one) The Garda on duty told me (unofficially) that they are to refuse all applications.

My question is if i retain my license (i'm pre 19/11/08) can i import a new handgun (9mm or higher). My security is already as tight as possible. Guard dog, monitored house alarm, cctv, secure room, gun safes, hidden floor safe, seperate hidden ammo safe, etc. So any stricter guidelines will not be a problem. So once i pass all these new rules and get my license re-issued am i not deemed to be secure and safe and therefore able to import or buy one that has already been imported.

Would be curious as to all your views or if anyone has definite written proof that this would be a possibility.

Hezz700

I just have to wonder why we the public stand for this sort of dictorial and grossly incompetent leadership, and i say this a (until recently) card carrying member of the FF party. I've nailed my colours to the mast for them to see.

Here we are hiding under our beds as usual and bickering and grumbling behind closed doors(that are infact not very well sound proofed)

The simple fact is that, .......not only has the horse bolted and ran away to the next parish, he also lived a good life and now resides in the great glue bottle in the sky.

We must live as best we can with what we've got.
We should also try to learn something from this dirty little episode and maybe find our voice in unity. This of course will never happen because at the first sign of trouble eveyrone will scurry off to their hideout to consult "The art of blame and denial" in an instinctive act of selfpreservation.

Grovernment 1 - Shooters Nil

The responsibility lies with each and everyone of us to take an active role in the future of our sport as a whole. Be vocal in your club/associations/gang/click/whatever, be involved.

Sparks is often heard bemoaning the fact that 2% of the people are doing 98% of the work. and i do sympathise, but this 2% are more likely to get their way than the 98% fence sitting fraternity.

I don't like to be defeatist but , i truly worry for what the future has in store and how helpless we are to defend ourselves.

meathshooter

ezridax wrote: »

Hey lads,

I've been following this thread for the most part since the begining. I've seen the postings (pre the CJB passing) with the speculation and hearsay most of which have come to fruition. So i now want to know what are yer views, opinions or knowledge of the rules for importing or buying new handguns.

I'm currently licensed for a 9mm, of which i've had a couple of different ones over the years. I went to change for another model a few months ago and was denied (not a huge shocker considering the CJB was looming) I got the article 7, letter of approval from the Super but was turned down on the import license. I was told that i did not have a valid reason for having/importing a 9mm pistol (even though i was already licensed and in possession of one) The Garda on duty told me (unofficially) that they are to refuse all applications.

My question is if i retain my license (i'm pre 19/11/08) can i import a new handgun (9mm or higher). My security is already as tight as possible. Guard dog, monitored house alarm, cctv, secure room, gun safes, hidden floor safe, seperate hidden ammo safe, etc. So any stricter guidelines will not be a problem. So once i pass all these new rules and get my license re-issued am i not deemed to be secure and safe and therefore able to import or buy one that has already been imported.

Would be curious as to all your views or if anyone has definite written proof that this would be a possibility.

In the same boat got cert amended europass changed for new pistol but super refused article 7,was told it wont be issued until the proposed change are made clear.ezridax you know legally you don't need a import license for a personal import license and your article 7 will suffice

Cass

meathshooter wrote: »

.......ezridax you know legally you don't need a import license for a personal import license and your article 7 will suffice

I'm aware that an article 7 will suffice if say buying up the north and bringing the handgun in personally. Is that what you mean? If you have other info please elaborate.

My firearm dealer has a brand new model of the firearm i'm after but tbh i was nervous of losing my license if i changed before the CJB was signed in. Only good thing is he said no-one will be buying it so he can hold it and if i can change without losing the license he'll do a deal with me. Hence the reason for posting on this thread.

Grizzly 45

Hezz,
you might as well be trying to shovel mercury with a fork than getting [1] anyone to learn somthing from this [2] any organisation to back the others up in either shooting or Irish society

The culture of me fein and "I dont want to take responsibility,but I want the big paycheck and fame that is my Right because I have the job!"Runs too deep in our psyche to be changed easily.
Until we start looking very closely at what we elect to repersent us politically and organisationally in Irish society.We will keep getting Gombeens and Gobaloons in power.We got the Govt we deserved!:( As one US ambassadors wife said about us Irish."we are a great people,but we lack a sense of moral outrage!"

rrpc

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Hezz,
The culture of me fein and "I dont want to take responsibility,but I want the big paycheck and fame that is my Right because I have the job!"

Who's got the big paycheck Grizzly? I want that job

ezridax wrote:

My question is if i retain my license (i'm pre 19/11/08) can i import a new handgun (9mm or higher).

The short answer to that is 'not sure'.

The new Act has this line "no application for a firearm certificate in respect of a short firearm shall be considered by an issuing person".

But you still have Section 11 of the 1964 Act:
"Subject to subsection (3) of this section, the Minister or the commissioner may substitute for the description of a firearm in a firearm certificate granted by him or her the description of another firearm and, upon such substitution, the certificate shall have effect in relation to that other firearm and shall not have effect in relation to the first-mentioned firearm."

So as far as I can see, substitutions are fine in that they are not considered applications, but I'm not sure because interpretation on the ground is sometimes at variance with statute law. There's also the possibility that I've missed something :eek:

Personal imports are banned in the new act, only dealers can import.

Grizzly 45

[

quote=rrpc;61302835]Who's got the big paycheck Grizzly? I want that job

Apply at any FF,FG,Labour,Green,SF and other consituency office.

Job requirements......Er...????
Physical chacteristics for job
Thick neck.
Long nose[for sticking up certain places the Sun dont shine,or looking down at people]