300 civil servants are paid more than €165,000 per year

jimmmy

It was reported on RTE radio this morning that over 300 civil servants "earn " over € 165,000.00 per year. On retirement they are entitled to the "gratuity" and a pension of over € 80,000.00 per year. It implied the figure was civil servants only and did not include hospital consultants etc.

It would be interesting to find out the number of civil servants further down this colossal pyramid eg those earning between 120,000 and 165,000 per year ?

joolsveer

Anybody being paid this amount or more should be named!

P. Breathnach

joolsveer wrote: »

Anybody being paid this amount or more should be named!

Get yourself a copy of the IPA Yearbook.

eman66

I know two of them, working in the same county, on €250,000. No fantastic qualifications, promotions and length of service got them this nice fat salary. I think a quarter of a million is silly money.

Darragh29

The more I hear about the PS Gravy train in Ireland, the less I wonder now why the country hasn't got a pot to p*ss into. How in the name of all that is holy can these salaries be justified??? :mad::mad::mad:

Darragh29

eman66 wrote: »

I know two of them, working in the same county, on €250,000. No fantastic qualifications, promotions and length of service got them this nice fat salary. I think a quarter of a million is silly money.

And the remarkable thing is, the fact that they were promoted was probably based exclusively on length of service, consistent with the backwards workplace promotional structures endorsed by public sector vested interest unions. None of these people were probably promoted on merit or ability. If you're in the job 10 years and opposing change and I'm in the job 9 years and embracing change, you'll get the job and that will be that. After ten odd years of benchmarking, the rules for handling promotions are still coming from somewhere back in the 1950's, you couldn't make it up.

Alcatel

Our PS is overpaid, inefficient, and not likely to change thanks to the monopoly of serior civil servants, politicians and unions. The bureaucracy must grow in order to facilitate the growing bureaucracy.

In other news, it's sunny out.

Darragh29

Alcatel wrote: »

Our PS is overpaid, inefficient, and not likely to change thanks to the monopoly of serior civil servants, politicians and unions. The bureaucracy must grow in order to facilitate the growing bureaucracy.

In other news, it's sunny out.

The best thing we could do for ourselves now is let the government throw more money at them, let the inefficiencies bed in further and further and the cost of the PS rise and rise. There is no way that a country with our current income can actually survive as an economic entity with the PS burden that it has currently saddled itself with. So something will have to give somewhere, you can't continue spending nearly 60 Billion Euro when you are taking in around 30 Billion Euro a year.

Then the day will sooner come when we will be bankrupt as a country and someone else will have to come in and sort it all out for us right and proper.

joolsveer

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Get yourself a copy of the IPA Yearbook.

Will that cover the non public service too?

Alcatel

Darragh29 wrote: »

The best thing we could do for ourselves now is let the government throw more money at them, let the inefficiencies bed in further and further and the cost of the PS rise and rise. There is no way that a country with our current income can actually survive as an economic entity with the PS burden that it has currently saddled itself with. So something will have to give somewhere, you can't continue spending nearly 60 Billion Euro when you are taking in around 30 Billion Euro a year.

Then the day will sooner come when we will be bankrupt as a country and someone else will have to come in and sort it all out for us right and proper.

That's the general idea. We can't fire people because of the unions, and we can't let the right people go and bring in the right organisational structures because we're incapable.

Why did we set up the QUANGO's? Because our politicians needed to shuffle responsibility for some issue or other.

Why can't we roll all PS spending into one organisation, handling all HR, payroll, IT, purchasing and corporate services in one? Because we'd not be capable of doing it. There are companies with more people on the books than our PS, and we really couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery by comparison.

jimmmy

Darragh29 wrote: »

The best thing we could do for ourselves now is let the government throw more money at them, let the inefficiencies bed in further and further and the cost of the PS rise and rise. There is no way that a country with our current income can actually survive as an economic entity with the PS burden that it has currently saddled itself with. So something will have to give somewhere, you can't continue spending nearly 60 Billion Euro when you are taking in around 30 Billion Euro a year.

Then the day will sooner come when we will be bankrupt as a country and someone else will have to come in and sort it all out for us right and proper.

Do you know, thats the best suggestion I have heard in a while. You are right, the sooner we will be bankrupt as a country the better, and someone else will have to come in and sort it all out for us right and proper. Would anyone else help us at that stage though ?

Darragh29

jimmmy wrote: »

Do you know, thats the best suggestion I have heard in a while. You are right, the sooner we will be bankrupt as a country the better, and someone else will have to come in and sort it all out for us right and proper. Would anyone else help us at that stage though ?

To be honest, I've lost faith in the ability of this government to run this country. They can't put their hands up and say they made a b*lls of it and that major major changes are needed and if strikes are the outcome, then to be it, upwards and onwards.

Best thing we can do now for ourselves is let them dig us further and further into the sh*ts, help them to do it quicker and quicker, encourage the government to give more payrises to the PS and to continue on the path of pursuing less efficiencies and keep paying more bonuses and more money into PS pensions. "There yiz go lads, keep horsin' and shovelling the cash in there!" Instead of Biffo sacking 5 junior ministers, we should be encouraging him to add another ten junior ministers, but not before he sacks the five today and throws 50K each at them in severance pay. After he wastes that money 250K of taxpayers money, he should hire the same 5 back next week and then hire another ten on top of that. More military helicopters for Martin Cullen & Noel Dempsey, more e-voting machines that will never be used along with the obligitary 25 year legally binding lease with your local FF supporter to store them. More more more more more.

Then some day soon, the pot will be empty and that will be the end of that particular problem.

P. Breathnach

Darragh29 wrote: »

And the remarkable thing is, the fact that they were promoted was probably based exclusively on length of service...

Not so. Jobs at that level are filled by competitve process operated by the Top Level Appointments Commission.

... you couldn't make it up.

You just did.

P. Breathnach

joolsveer wrote: »

Will that cover the non public service too?

The IPA deals with the public service. It's the Institute of Public Administration. So you should be able to figure out its main focus. See http://www.ipa.ie/content.asp?id=65 .

Sleepy

300 odd quangos would obviously require 300 odd 'top men' to do... well I'm not sure what most of them actually do...

stevoman

another public service bashing thread. who would have thought. :rolleyes:

mathie

"300 civil servants are paid more than €165,000 per year"

And how many private sector workers earn more than 165K a year?

jonsnow

no great surprise here.TDs and ministers salarys are benchmarked against senior civil servants.If they get paid the politicos get paid.But while there salarys are certainly impressive its the perks and benifits that these guys get which is truly mindblowing.I f a regular garda gets a 28 euro food voucher daily to feed himself at an airport for example- what do you think these guys can claim.

anonymous_joe

For the love of God...

We can all agree that certain aspects of the Civil Service are poorly run, but for fúck's sake, people are bitter.

The 300 here are clearly those at the top of the Civil Service, if they were in private industry and at similar levels they'd earn far in excess of €165,000.

Begrudgery knows no limits. :rolleyes:

Rob_l

jonsnow wrote: »

no great surprise here.TDs and ministers salarys are benchmarked against senior civil servants.If they get paid the politicos get paid.But while there salarys are certainly impressive its the perks and benifits that these guys get which is truly mindblowing.I f a regular garda gets a 28 euro food voucher daily to feed himself at an airport for example- what do you think these guys can claim.

Compare like with like please, so compare an oridinary garda to an ordinary Public servant, I dont think the ehad of an garda siochana is restricted to a €28 voucher

Darragh29

anonymous_joe wrote: »

For the love of God...

We can all agree that certain aspects of the Civil Service are poorly run, but for fúck's sake, people are bitter.

The 300 here are clearly those at the top of the Civil Service, if they were in private industry and at similar levels they'd earn far in excess of €165,000.

Begrudgery knows no limits. :rolleyes:

If you were in the private sector, you'd be seriously worried about losing your job right now, if you haven't already and I imagine you'd be taking a hefty wage cut to counteract any possibility of that. The whole system is f*cked when it comes to PS pensions for a start. Someone retiring on 80K a year and then before that kicks in, a massive tax free lump sum/handshake!?!?! Who's paying for it???

jhegarty

mathie wrote: »

"300 civil servants are paid more than €165,000 per year"

And how many private sector workers earn more than 165K a year?

I hope there are lots of them , we need their tax money.

Unless you are shareholder in the company , I don't see how it would matter to you.

Gumbo

jhegarty wrote: »

I hope there are lots of them , we need their tax money.

Unless you are shareholder in the company , I don't see how it would matter to you.

the point being, you dont see new threads started everyday to announce that a chairman in AIB is being paid 400k per year!

if a thread is started on 300PS workers being paid 165k, then there should be a thread started that just as many of private sector workers are being paid 165k

delop

kceire wrote: »

the point being, you dont see new threads started everyday to announce that a chairman in AIB is being paid 400k per year!

Thats not comparing like with like, The chairman of AIB is paid that because the company makes a profit, and are still doing so... but he is no mate of mine, dont get me started...

IMO all CS & PS contracts should be canceled , and they can all reapply for their jobs in an open market, under more sensible conditions and it they don't like the new condition they don't have to apply...

jimmmy

kceire wrote: »

the point being, you dont see new threads started everyday to announce that a chairman in AIB is being paid 400k per year!

ah but there are not 300 chairmen of AIB being paid over 165k per year. I can choose to support AIB or not. I can do business with them or not...they have plenty of competition, and if you or I or joe soap thinks they can run a business better than AIB or make more money than them then we can try to prove it. We have no choice however in the govt....its not like a business we can support or not. Public servants are just that.

I have tried briefly to find out how many earn between 120,000 and 165,000 per year but cannot find the figure.

Boskowski

Now lads. I'd usually be the first to join in on the bashing of waste in the public service, but ...

Running a big company with a few thousand employees surely requires a few top jobs and nobody would think twice about the fact that there would be people in such a company on that kind of money.

So what about running a country? Is that all done by clerks behind counters or what?

I know there is a awful lot of stuff in PS that isn't up to scratch, but sometimes it gets just silly. And the media home in on it as it seems to be the thing that people want read about these days. Irresponsible actually that.

P. Breathnach

jimmmy wrote: »

ah but there are not 300 chairmen of AIB being paid over 165k per year. I can choose to support AIB or not. I can do business with them or not...they have plenty of competition, and if you or I or joe soap thinks they can run a business better than AIB or make more money than them then we can try to prove it. We have no choice however in the govt....its not like a business we can support or not. Public servants are just that.

So can you guide me to a bank where the chief executive is paid less than €165k pa?

And let's not pretend that remuneration committees in plcs are influenced by price competition between candidates for the position of chief executive. The processes in that area are far from transparent (even to shareholders, to whom directors are accountable). But it's not public sector, so you excuse it.

Darragh29

P. Breathnach wrote: »

So can you guide me to a bank where the chief executive is paid less than €165k pa?

And let's not pretend that remuneration committees in plcs are influenced by price competition between candidates for the position of chief executive. The processes in that area are far from transparent (even to shareholders, to whom directors are accountable). But it's not public sector, so you excuse it.

Any lads that I know who are running their own businesses, employing between 10 and 30 people, are paying themselves no more than 50K. I know of one who was paying himself 100K and that's been slashed down big time very recently. This notion that the entrepreneurs/business people of Ireland are paying themselves 165K a year is a complete fallacy. Maybe in the cosetted semi state environment, and I'd argue that they are closer to public sector than private sector jobs, you might have folks running departments or organisations that are getting 165K a year if not a lot more. Where most of the jobs are created, which is the small and medium enterprise sector, people running their own companies are not paying themselves 165K a year or anywhere near it.

P. Breathnach

Darragh29 wrote: »

Any lads that I know who are running their own businesses, employing between 10 and 30 people, are paying themselves no more than 50K. I know of one who was paying himself 100K and that's been slashed down big time very recently. This notion that the entrepreneurs/business people of Ireland are paying themselves 165K a year is a complete fallacy. Maybe in the cosetted semi state environment, and I'd argue that they are closer to public sector than private sector jobs, you might have folks running departments or organisations that are getting 165K a year if not a lot more. Where most of the jobs are created, which is the small and medium enterprise sector, people running their own companies are not paying themselves 165K a year or anywhere near it.

You totally avoided my challenge. We were dealing with a comparison of pay at the highest levels in the public with pay at the highest levels in the private sector. Now you throw in the lower levels of the private sector.

If you want an anecdotal approach: most of the very wealthy people I know are in the private sector (including some in SMEs). What does that prove? Nothing much.

Darragh29

P. Breathnach wrote: »

You totally avoided my challenge. We were dealing with a comparison of pay at the highest levels in the public with pay at the highest levels in the private sector. Now you throw in the lower levels of the private sector.

If you want an anecdotal approach: most of the very wealthy people I know are in the private sector (including some in SMEs). What does that prove? Nothing much.

I'm not getting into a completely useless comparison you are trying to make between a handful of fat cats that you could count on one hand and the majority of employments in this country that are managed by entrepreneurs who are employing under 30 people, who are responsible for the majority of economic activity in this country and have created the majority of jobs.

There's no point in pointing the finger at a handful of fat cats and telling everyone that on the basis of what they earn, it's grand that there are public sector workers on over 150K a year. It's a f*cking disgrace that people who do nothing but organise bullsh*t meetings, media photo calls and pedal bullsh*t from one end of the day to the other are being paid these kind of salaries.

I say keep paying it to them, double their salaries, throw whatever expenses they want at them, then we'll go broke as a country and we'll finally get all this messing sorted out for once and for all. 165K a year is no use to you if your employer cannot afford to pay it to you and that's where we're heading to at the moment...

Cardinal Blue

jimmmy wrote: »

On retirement they are entitled to the "gratuity"

As far as i know gratuity is usually 1.5 times your wages(based on service).
A lump sum of up to €247500 tax payers money,very nice!.Were do I sign up?.