Time for bank employees to "share the pain"?

Daithinski

STAFF at AIB are expected to deliver an overwhelming rejection of a management request for a two-year pay freeze and a 5pc salary deduction to help plug a gap in the bank's pension scheme.

I personally don't see why a pay freeze would be a problem.

The construction industry f*cked up and the workers paid the price by losing their jobs and pay rates have been decimated.

The banking industry f*ucked up too, so it would be logical to presume (since the banks are hemorrhaging money) that this would be reflected in massive pay cuts.

Why?

Because its the irish tax payer who is giving the banks money to pay the wages. Its not coming from the bank profits.

I say cut their wages and tell them to suck it up. Everybody else has to. They should be grateful for a pay freeze ffs. What do they want a raise? Do bank employees not read the newspapers?

Sleepy

Daithinski, do some research on banking salaries for those below director level, the vast majority of bank staff are terribly paid.

Both my parents work for BOI. My father's been there nearly 40 years and is reasonably high up the management ladder, my mother took a 15 year career break to rear myself and my siblings before being re-hired at a lower level than she left and after about a decade she's back at the same sort of level as she was when she left. I passed my mother's salary within 3 years of starting employment and was on track to have caught up to my father's salary within a decade before the credit crunch hit and popped the bubble.

I actually worked as a cashier in a fairly large branch myself providing relief cover over the summer and can safely tell you that I earned more stacking shelves in Dunnes during my time there than I did in the bank.

Also, have you any idea how many bank staff had most of their savings in shares? The performance related bonus schemes were never huge in BOI but could be taken in the form of shares rather than cash. Since the value of those shares has been decimated, I can assure you that most bank employees are already feeling the pain.

All that said, a 5 percent pay reduction doesn't sound unreasonable. I doubt AIB are too worried about the IBOA anyway, they've been a pretty powerless union for the last 20 years or so as in the ages of on-line banking, pass machines (which can be filled by security van personnel) and phone banking (who's staff are almost certainly not part of the union) any strike would be quickly broken...

Cardinal Blue

Daithinski wrote: »

I personally don't see why a pay freeze would be a problem

No one ever sees a problem with other people taking a pay freeze.Its just human nature.I really don't see a problem with yourself taking a 50% wage cut(if your lucky enough to be working),and working double the hours.
And no I don't work in the banks.

Lemming

I think that given the current state of play, where the public are pumping money into prop up otherwise failed businesses (the banks) whether they wanted to or not, the banks need to play humble pie here. Whilst I can't speak for the pay of bank staff, there are plenty of people out there on lousy wages too who have been "volunteered" to pay the bank staff so that they can continue on "normal".

Waving an attitude of "I'm alright Jack" in the faces of joe soap tax payer is going to do nothing positive, and the banks would do well to heed that. I'm not calling for blood, but this story sends out all the wrong signals.

ixoy

It's actually a little reminescent of the calls for the PS/CS to have their wages cut. In both cases, the vast vast majority did not cause this mess but they're both being funded by a large Budget deficit and it's right for us to seek to reduce these costs. Fair? Not particuarly, but we need to look at the greate rgood.

Blangis

Daithinski wrote: »

I personally don't see why a pay freeze would be a problem.

The construction industry f*cked up and the workers paid the price by losing their jobs and pay rates have been decimated.

The banking industry f*ucked up too, so it would be logical to presume (since the banks are hemorrhaging money) that this would be reflected in massive pay cuts.

Why?

Because its the irish tax payer who is giving the banks money to pay the wages. Its not coming from the bank profits.

I say cut their wages and tell them to suck it up. Everybody else has to. They should be grateful for a pay freeze ffs. What do they want a raise? Do bank employees not read the newspapers?

Do you read the newspapers?

Or do you read the Independent, or the Herald, or Metro, or some such thing?

Daithinski

Cardinal Blue wrote: »

No one ever sees a problem with other people taking a pay freeze.Its just human nature.I really don't see a problem with yourself taking a 50% wage cut(if your lucky enough to be working),and working double the hours.
And no I don't work in the banks.

I have taken a cut in income. I don't have a problem with it. Its just the way things are.

No one deserves a cut in pay apart from the government and the banks directors. But the reality is the money isn't there.

But I do have a problem with the banks employees (AIB in this case) feeling that they are somehow more deserving that the rest of the taxpaying population.

Its an industry that is losing money... its a bit mental thinking that you can keep on getting the same pay.

At the end of the day, its coming out of the country's budget. A pay rise would in effect be a social welfare payment for the banks employees.

spank_inferno

Daithinski wrote: »

I personally don't see why a pay freeze would be a problem.

The construction industry f*cked up and the workers paid the price by losing their jobs and pay rates have been decimated.

The banking industry f*ucked up too, so it would be logical to presume (since the banks are hemorrhaging money) that this would be reflected in massive pay cuts.

Why?

Because its the irish tax payer who is giving the banks money to pay the wages. Its not coming from the bank profits.

I say cut their wages and tell them to suck it up. Everybody else has to. They should be grateful for a pay freeze ffs. What do they want a raise? Do bank employees not read the newspapers?

In this case it was certainly a narrow minded (typical union) decision to reject a pay freeze so I do agree with the OP in that sense.

I'd imagain the staff of AIB already feel they are already taking their "share of the pain" Below managerial levels the pay at banks isnt that great.

dave-higgz

My dad works in AIB and I was surprised to hear the generous pension he will receive. I think 5% is fair price to pay however my Dad is in middle management. I would be concerned for the lower paid in the banks who had no intent in causing this crisis and who not deserve to be hit considering none of their jobs are safe

gerry28

would be concerned for the lower paid in the banks who had no intent in causing this crisis and who not deserve to be hit considering none of their jobs are safe

The lower paid in the banks are no different form the low paid in the PS/CS. Yet we got the pension levy to 'help the country' as they say?? They should get the same as the rest of the country... nothing more and nothing less.

To think the AIB bank staff feel they deserve a pay rise beggers belief.

Do they really think that while ordinary workers are taking deductions left right and centre, they in the industry that f#*ked everything up should carry on as if none of this has happened.

Are there any bankers here on boards? If so please explain to me why you think you should get a pay rise??

ParkRunner

Don't forget 6,000 BOI staff have already recently been given a 3.5% payrise too which should help offset the measures in the budget.

Darragh29

Sorry, posted in wrong thread!

Sleepy

gerry28, there's a rather big difference between the lower paid in the bank and the lower paid in the PS. Although their basic salaries may be similar the banker doesn't get a defined benefit pension paid for them by the bank, nor do they have the same level of job security.

dave-higgz

gerry28 wrote: »

The lower paid in the banks are no different form the low paid in the PS/CS. Yet we got the pension levy to 'help the country' as they say?? They should get the same as the rest of the country... nothing more and nothing less.

To think the AIB bank staff feel they deserve a pay rise beggers belief.

Do they really think that while ordinary workers are taking deductions left right and centre, they in the industry that f#*ked everything up should carry on as if none of this has happened.

Are there any bankers here on boards? If so please explain to me why you think you should get a pay rise??

There's no suggestion that Bank workers are demanding a pay rise. They have rejected a package which will cut 5% of their pay. They're angry at the hierarchy in their own company walking away with million euro salaries, golden handshakes and huge pensions. It's a genuine anger that could easily be tackled by having a progressive levy within the bank instead of a flat 5%. Similar to the 2,4,6% government levy's it would be a fair levy that would generate a lot of money considering that the numbers earning over €80,000 is much greater in a bank than in Irish society as a whole.

gerry28

there's a rather big difference between the lower paid in the bank and the lower paid in the PS. Although their basic salaries may be similar the banker doesn't get a defined benefit pension paid for them by the bank, nor do they have the same level of job security.

Sleepy the pension for the low paid public servants is not great either, half a clerical officer wage is no kings ransom.

There's no suggestion that Bank workers are demanding a pay rise. They have rejected a package which will cut 5% of their pay.

dave-higgz, if you read the quote at the top they are voting against a pay freeze.
In other words a vote against not getting their pay rise.

Sleepy

gerry28 wrote: »

Sleepy the pension for the low paid public servants is not great either, half a clerical officer wage is no kings ransom.

It may not be great but it's something the bank staff don't have. My point was that you were making an unfair comparison.

The entry position in most banks is called a 'bank assistant' which would be pretty much on a par work-wise with a clerical officer. These positions are still known to older bank staff (who would have joined the company as 'bank officials' - a position which was historically on a par with that of a clerical officer) as "yellow packs". Last time I looked at starting salaries they were about 17/18k per year with no pension rights, 20 days holidays, no flexi-time and nowhere near the level of job security of that enjoyed by a clerical officer.

bladespin

I think anyone getting paid to work in a bank should just be grateful they have somewhere to work the way things are.
Imagine if some of the banks had been let go bust?