muntjak problem!

Sparks

In fairness BS, if a muntjac was poached, it would hardly be reported anywhere (except maybe down the pub over a quiet pint).

bunny shooter

Sparks I draw your attention to post 3 on this thread

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59938206&postcount=3

Seems 223 would not be legitimate, and the fact it might have been shot under a lamp?

Sparks

Er, BS, that's not reporting one being shot...
...and I doubt that the game keeper who shot the first one with .223 thinking it was a fox would be prosecuted - it's hardly fair to ask an Irish hunter to know what a deer from Southeast Asia (with rare groups in the UK and India) looks like when it's illegal to introduce them here.

bunny shooter

Sparks wrote: »

Er, BS, that's not reporting one being shot....

Photo mentioned might be circumstantial proof of one being shot though

Sparks wrote: »

...and I doubt that the game keeper who shot the first one with .223 thinking it was a fox would be prosecuted - it's hardly fair to ask an Irish hunter to know what a deer from Southeast Asia (with rare groups in the UK and India) looks like when it's illegal to introduce them here.

Ignorance is not a defence in law

Suppose without a confession from the shooter or a munty body with a 223 round in it it might be hard to prove alright

jwshooter

i asked a member of the npws about the shooting of this muntjac .

i was told there was a decision from the top no action was going to be taken on the person who shot it .

i bumped in to him one eve the lad that shot it and had to put my hands in my pockets and bite my tongue .

Jonty

Sparks wrote: »

Er, BS, that's not reporting one being shot...
...and I doubt that the game keeper who shot the first one with .223 thinking it was a fox would be prosecuted - it's hardly fair to ask an Irish hunter to know what a deer from Southeast Asia (with rare groups in the UK and India) looks like when it's illegal to introduce them here.

Surely when you're lamping, you should always ID the target before not after you pull the trigger?

westwicklow

eh... before we all get carried away here, perhaps by the strength of our convictions, in itself to be admired, I'm just worried 'bout how these little creatures will impact on the local farming and rural environment and what can I do to stop them becoming too much of a pest and wearing out their welcome!!

So, if our shooting foxes with .223 for example, and one said muntjac happens into my crosshairs, do I need permit/different weapon before I can pull the trigger?

It wasn't me!

westwicklow wrote: »

eh... before we all get carried away here, perhaps by the strength of our convictions, in itself to be admired, I'm just worried 'bout how these little creatures will impact on the local farming and rural environment and what can I do to stop them becoming too much of a pest and wearing out their welcome!!

So, if our shooting foxes with .223 for example, and one said muntjac happens into my crosshairs, do I need permit/different weapon before I can pull the trigger?

Yes and yes. The Wildlife act only has specifications for all deer species, so you will need a deer licence and a deer-legal calibre.

bunny shooter

I agree with IWM

westwicklow

Next time a muntjac asks me for a deer permit, what am I to say? :rolleyes:

Will they raise any objection to .223 in preference to something bigger? LOL

Thanks to all for the many and varied opinions, advise and offers of help.

like to hunt

they wont get a chance to get out of hand because there is to much lamping on all deer.
and a lad out for a fox wont let a muntjac pass...
wether its a .22 .17 .204 .223 of 12g

It wasn't me!

Look, the legislation is cut and dry: No, you may not shoot a muntjac with a .223. No, you may not shoot one without a deer permit. A red deer doesn't ask for your bloody licence either, but you still need one. Sure, there are a lot of [edit: silly people] out there not abiding by the law, but we don't need to add to that particular pot, so again, no, you may not shoot them until you have a legal calibre and a deer licence.

bunny shooter

Why ask if it's legal if your gonna shoot them anyway?

spideog7

Just out of interest, since these lads are so small what sort of a calibre would work on them? (I understand the legal point of view but just asking out of interest)

If they are around the size of a fox then surely a .22WMR, .17HMR or even a BB would make short work of them, although I'm sure they are built very different to a fox. No experience of deer or anything that big.

jwshooter

this debate is on going in the uk where all the deer groups are pushing for a min of 22 centre fire not "hornet" ,222 up.which is law in scotland but not england i think 243 in min there.
there is a lot of muntjac turning up with lead shot in them which would suggest that shotguns are not effective enough.

the know all will say there no bigger than a fox ,but how many foxes are shot with shot guns and lost or to be caught by the dogs in cover .

and its illegal to hunt deer with a pack of dogs

like to hunt

so can we all let the muntjac breed in pease.
till there are numbers of them...
some people even keep them as pets!!!!!!!!!!

BryanL

like to hunt wrote: »

so can we all let the muntjac breed in pease.
till there are numbers of them...
some people even keep them as pets!!!!!!!!!!

Wouldn't that make a mockery of any claims that hunting is of benefit because it controls vermin etc.?
Bryan

like to hunt

not vermin...deer
and they make a good meal..
shoot what you eat..
and shoot what kills what you eat..

kakashka

Not seen name mentioned here but please feel free to delete if necessary

I believe "the first Muntjak shot in IRL" was imported for that very purpose.

like to hunt

that muntjac was a set up to make noise..
i have been to the place with a lamp and have talked to the farmers adjoinen the esate.
even went for walks throw there nice place..
and i know the land well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
mush of shot his pet.. because there ant none there..

i think it was a sacrefice...

westwicklow

like to hunt wrote: »

so can we all let the muntjac breed in pease.
till there are numbers of them...
some people even keep them as pets!!!!!!!!!!

Because of the damage they inflict on the local farming and forestry environments, how do we know when you have enough of them like to hunt?

Most of the locals around here take care of our own problems and work at it together, as a community with a common interest so since the "munties" already have a very poor reputation, do you expect us the give them a warm reception? It hasn't happened yet and it's not going to happen. I'm not anti-deer as there's many of them in our forestry and on the land and goodness knows, they are, for the greater part, left to their own devices, to be admired from a distance and play their own part in the environment. So are we fearful of this tiny deer because they are new and alien to us or are we fearful of what they may do to us in terms of environmental damage or of the risk that once they get established, it will be so very difficult to controll them....
4 "munties" seen where The Kings River enters Blessington Lake early this morning.

like to hunt

how can they get out of control.
they eat the lower scrub.. yes they will eat new buds and trees.
so will rabbits other deer , goats , cows ,
maybe im wrong just like to give them a chance!!!!!!!!!!!!!
they are a lovely little thing i have seen them.

i was up there fishing on and of last few weeks did not see them.
allways looken!!!!!!!!!

there are plenty of deer hunters that will be able to take care of them if there is a problem

tks..

jwshooter

a few pictures lad if you please and are all these sightings been reported to the npws ,deer leave slots so a pic of these with some thing of a known size to compare in the pic .

like to hunt

why do we need proof do we not trust each other

westwicklow

oh man..... what am I to do like to hunt? And it's not just me that's locally involved. The public perception of the mentjac is not all that favourable in general and the perception specifically in the local agricultural circles is even poorer.

Personally, I'm not a "hunter", as my shooting for the past couple of decades involves mainly vermin control although I do have my trap & clays for fun, and I believe, hunters, who come and go, need to be controlled as much as the vermin/deer/quarry they shoot by those of us who own and work the land etc. However, there are many more "shooters" than "hunters" in my area, keeping vermin under control, especially early in the year around lambing time. So, just like you like to shoot that which affects your food supply (!), we like to shoot that which we percieve to badly effect our livelyhood i.e. muntjac

For example, in our most recent plantation of approx. 75 acres, 25 acres have been decimated. Apart from the cost of planting and purchasing saplings, there's a huge financial loss going forward. This whole planting program won't make money! And before you say it, I'm not blaming the muntjac in this particular example. But if we have more and more and more muntjac (as they're rapid breeders), what chance have we got to help make a living?

Not to be all negative about them though, they do look beautiful... especially through my schmidt & bender!

westwicklow

jwshooter wrote: »

a few pictures lad if you please and are all these sightings been reported to the npws ,deer leave slots so a pic of these with some thing of a known size to compare in the pic .

I doubt that anyone around here has mentioned this to npws, personally, I haven't to date.

Don't know what to do about photos as the only camera I have is on my phone and if I could get a good phone without too many gadgets on it, I would!!

If it's any help though, have a chat with any of the people in the area as I'm not the only one to have seen them.

It wasn't me!

westwicklow wrote: »

I doubt that anyone around here has mentioned this to npws, personally, I haven't to date.

Don't know what to do about photos as the only camera I have is on my phone and if I could get a good phone without too many gadgets on it, I would!!

If it's any help though, have a chat with any of the people in the area as I'm not the only one to have seen them.

I live in the same area (Manor Kilbride) and would be very interested if there's actual evidence of them in the area.

westwicklow

We, and many more, are all interested for various reasons I suppose.

It wasn't me!

westwicklow wrote: »

We, and many more, are all interested for various reasons I suppose.

If you pop John Griffin a private message, he might be very interested in a situation where he could document evidence of muntjac presence in an area hitherto unsuspected of having them. On the other hand, he might not (personally I'll believe they're here when there's one in the larder) but if he is interested, he'd be about the best placed to document it properly.

westwicklow

It wasn't me! wrote: »

........personally I'll believe they're here when there's one in the larder)....

Actually, what do they taste like?

Here muntie, muntie, muntie!