Are rogues crap?

Rei-chan

MagicIRL wrote: »

Rogues are brilliant, I personally hate them - being a Warlock and getting stunlocked to death is not fun.

I would agree that there does not seem to be many of them at 80, Mainly because most of them, on Kul Tiras anyway, re-rolled DK when Wrath came out.

Being so OP in TBC, then came the DK (DK > Rouge) so Rogues needed there OP fix again and rerolled

Rogues are good, but they're always complaining about dps in pve at level 80.
In pvp they pewpew me cause I'm also a warlock, but I think their stuns should break on damage the way fear does now. Just to be fair like.

TheDoc

Messing around on my level 19 rogue a bit.

Obviously i havnt put effort into twink gear so its a mismatch from the get go, but the rate i dominate characters 1v1 is ridic.

magilly

Rei-chan wrote: »

Rogues are good, but they're always complaining about dps in pve at level 80.
In pvp they pewpew me cause I'm also a warlock, but I think their stuns should break on damage the way fear does now. Just to be fair like.

Pre 3.1 rogues dps was pretty poor for a pure dps class, being miles behind warriors/hunters/dk's/mages/locks and shamans in some cases. But right now... they're insanely good. Right now rogues can keep up to 8k dps over 4-5 mins, they obviously have to be in pretty insane gear.

BadCharlie

Rogues i think are over powered in PvP. When they put you in stunlock its game over. Im a hunter, ok i only have 20k health in pvp gear. But if one rogue sneaks up on me and stuns me from the start thats it, im dead.

IgsTer

BadCharlie wrote: »

Rogues i think are over powered in PvP. When they put you in stunlock its game over. Im a hunter, ok i only have 20k health in pvp gear. But if one rogue sneaks up on me and stuns me from the start thats it, im dead.

A hunter being my first char to level up to lvl80 i know how you feel, i hated getting into pvp with one as alot of the time if you let them get you first your at a huge disadvantage straight away, though saying that theres alot of things you have that can easily give you the upper hand if you know there around.

Pet, traps, flares, hunters mark, serpent sting, your own stun's and snare skills to name a few. The hunter is a well equipped class to take on a rogue once ya know what to do. There definetily not OP.

That being said ive just re-rolled a rouge meself to see what its like for them. So far im liking the class but only lvl 21 i think. Cant wait to get some pvp in.

TheDoc

Im looking forward to bringing mine through outlands. There a hotkey intensive class that keeps you alert and constantly working through battles.

Mr. Gruff

Warcraft Census

Rogues are, along with warlocks, the least played class across all EU realms.
I dont like rogues too much, especially in wrath where all the other classes became over powered and rogues were left behind, waiting for lizz to nerf everyone down to where they were.

me-skywalker

Im currentyl lvlin a rogue to 80... are they THAT badly underpowered to say a hunter or mage in DPS? even now i find its intensive to keep up the meter.

Kiith

I'm currently at lvl66, and flying up. Still have major trouble with Death Knights and Paladins, but i feel comfortable taking on any other class. I'm already critting higher then my lvl70 Warlock, and swords/combat makes levelling fly by. Looking forward to another dps jump in Northrend.

Stealth is also fantastic fun, and it has helped make levelling the Rogue one of my favourite Warcraft experiences. Cant wait to have some fun with him at lvl80. I'm gonna be a right prick :P

Anti

Not if you know what your doing. We have a few execptional rogues in the guild who have no problem going over 5k dps. But i guess they are fairly gear dependant.

me-skywalker

well i like to think i know what im doing and lvlin solo is harder but its grand bursting through mob after mob. have my rotations and cd's down perfect and ahvea couple of differnt ones depending on type of enemies. have main hnd dagger off hand sword, combat specced with imp swords spec.

Kiith

I'm dual swords myself. Slow main hander with fast off-hand for poisons. As for rotations, i've no idea what mine are. Mostly just Sinister x4 (x5 if the mob has a lot of health) and then Eviscerate. Mobs generally dead by then. Great fun taking on multiple mobs with Shadow Step, Dodge and that move that hits multiple enemies.

Definitly considering going daggers at some stage, if only for the added initial damage and different play style. May as well get used to getting behind enemies for the future.

nix

BadCharlie wrote: »

Rogues i think are over powered in PvP. When they put you in stunlock its game over. Im a hunter, ok i only have 20k health in pvp gear. But if one rogue sneaks up on me and stuns me from the start thats it, im dead.

It's called PvP trinket And the only way i can see them dropping you in one stun lock is if there is a very big difference gear wise, whats your resi at?

I played my rogue ALOT in TBC, mainly BG's but when the talent patch hit i kinda lost interest in playing him, so shelved him until recentley and hes level 79 now.

Very close to 80 and i cant wait to get back into the PvP, i have hardly any horde contact on my grind from 70-79 and thats really weird as kazzak has a large population o_O

I blame flying mounts and stupid amount of mountains :mad:

me-skywalker

Kiith wrote: »

I'm dual swords myself. Slow main hander with fast off-hand for poisons. As for rotations, i've no idea what mine are. Mostly just Sinister x4 (x5 if the mob has a lot of health) and then Eviscerate. Mobs generally dead by then. Great fun taking on multiple mobs with Shadow Step, Dodge and that move that hits multiple enemies.

Definitly considering going daggers at some stage, if only for the added initial damage and different play style. May as well get used to getting behind enemies for the future.

dagger main hand is great because u get ambush in first hit and two combo pts straight away. with mobs of 4(5) can ambush one blind otr use evasion/blade flurry/adrenaline rush on 2, should be down in no time enough to go onto next 2 hopefully with blade flurry still going, can use slice and dice after (if full energy)then gouge, sinster strike spam last 2. should have 4/5 killed in 2mins. both weapons with instant poison for extra dmge.

plus with stealth can use distract to turn enemies, and sap one or blind. classic!

nix

I have to say though i miss the sub tree, they really need to do some work on it.

I used to love the spec, but its really really..... really really weak at the moment imo

Kiith

me-skywalker wrote: »

dagger main hand is great because u get ambush in first hit and two combo pts straight away.

I didnt actually think of this. Is there any reason not to go with the dagger in the main hand? Other then Sinister Strike not hitting for as much (it is based on main hand damage, right?). I always forget to use blind mid fight tbh. Only really remember it for running away in pvp :P

Kiith

nix wrote: »

I have to say though i miss the sub tree, they really need to do some work on it.

I used to love the spec, but its really really..... really really weak at the moment imo

What is the most common PvP spec at 80 btw? Assasination with some combat? I'm gonna be doing a lot of PvP (starting with battlegroungs), and would like to get some gear fast. Memories of pvping with my Paladin at lvl70 when everyone was decked out in tier 2 stuff still kind of haunts me (and i know it will be worse for a while)

me-skywalker

Kiith wrote: »

I didnt actually think of this. Is there any reason not to go with the dagger in the main hand? Other then Sinister Strike not hitting for as much (it is based on main hand damage, right?). I always forget to use blind mid fight tbh. Only really remember it for running away in pvp :P

Well your sword will be hitting for more each time but the dagger will hit quicker as its faster so the differential wont be HUGE. also coat it in inst poison to try offset some of the less damage you will do but i find the ambush and and gouge abilities taht are only usable witha dagger to be priceless while lvling taking on mobs.

lol yea blind is cool if ur on ur 5th enemie with NO health a blind and quick bandage or vanish but thats last last last minute and mob will be full health straight away.

try it out plenty of ways for lvling and tricks of the trade lol

EDIT: Plus im doign enchanting so can top myself up as i go along.

Blowfish

Kiith wrote: »

What is the most common PvP spec at 80 btw?

This.

BadCharlie

Nix i do have the trinket and i use it. But somehow i get stun onces again in place and im very much dead before i can start moving again. Anyways my movement speed is reduced so cant get away from him. Traps can be handy all right but if he also has trinket then his still after you.

My res is around 460 now. I kind of stopped gearing my hunter up with pvp as im not enjoying pvp with him. Its great fun picking toons off from range. Just when they get in close to you it stucks.

Have done no arena with him in over a year. So maybe it has changed.

Damage wise hunters are great in pvp. Im normaly on top with over all damage and by a long way after any of the battle grounds.

BadCharlie

I rolled a Rogue about 7 days ago. His at level 18 now. Its going to take me a long time to get to 80 as I don't have a-lot of time.

Just wondering how do I get sword training ? im horde and at the moment can only use daggers.

And another question is what profession should I do ?
At the moment im doing enchanting. But im not sure what I want for my second profession. Don't need to make money but more looking at end game if anything will help. But mostly in pvp.....

nix

Hey Charlie, you probably trinket out of his opening stun which is a bad idea as he prob has 5 combo points on you so wait till you see that your affected by kidney shot then trinket as he has no more stuns left unless he vanishes and re-cheap shots you which is unlikely unless hes stupid.

Also never plant a trap outside of melee range with rogue, we will see it and disarm it before you see us, rendering it useless and your one less CD from victory. So just drop it on our feet, literally

Scatter shot and disengage are your friends, however dont panic and use them too early.


And Kiith the spec blowfist posted is a good start (except not necessary to specc into both imp evis and envenom, i havent pvp'd near enough on my rogue to warrant any talent advice. I myself never go with cookie cutter builds, i usually make up my own unique build and by unique i mean pretty much the same build with about 5 points different ;P

But i predict mutilate is probably the best build for pvp, you might have fun with sub specc on resless clothies but on anything else you will find yourself barely denting plate and energy starved after your opener. I've been hearing that mutilate/prep is quite a good build but have yet to test it. it sounds good.

Heres a build im gonna specc at 80: http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=4&tal=30530310500210252210330100000500000000000000000000000005320232030001120000000000000

I went with imp evis as i prefer it in pvp as i find envenom in pvp unreliable, but superior in pve.

I'm two bars from 80 now as we speak so let the pvp party begin in about 15mins ;D

Kiith

Got to Northrend recently, and absolutly loving it. My dps has gone through the roof, and im topping the damage charts in pretty much every instance. Switched from Swords to Fist weapons (still Combat though), as there are no swords available from the starting quests in Northrend. Got a great slow main hander from a quest and a fantastic off hander from Nexus. The Fist weapons make me look badass now :P

Was in Azjol Nerub last night, and had a Death Knight trying to catch me on the damage charts, but with Killing Spree, Shadowstep and Blade Fury he just couldnt keep up. Fly threw it and the Old Kingdom too. Really enjoying it now.

magilly

killingspree + shadowstep ? am i missing something ?
guess you mean AR.


Right now tho, rogues are pretty much king of pve dps, not as much as we used to be, some fights are better for melee than others obviously, but we pretty much rock atm.

me-skywalker

Just wondering how your getting on with the Rogue Kiith?
I stopped playing a couple months ago but back now and am currently lvl 71 in Northrend... started off in Howling Fjord finished all the quests there and now im gonna head over to Borean Thundra i figured there is better gear for me there not much at all for the Rogue in howling fjord.

Kiith

Still enjoying the Rogue, although im gonna take a break from Warcraft and try Aion and Champions Online for a while. Gear wise, i think i got most of mine in Borean Tundra anyway, but i cant remember for sure. There are 2 fist weapons that you should try to get, one in Nexus and i cant remember where the other one is. But they looked cool, and lasted 3-4 levels for me anyway.

Kyri

The other comes from UK if i remember right - Very nice weapons i used to 78 i think on my wickle roguey

me-skywalker

what are fist weapons comparable with? would i replace my dagger or sword for it? im currently dagger main and sword off.. for ambush and gauge lvlin.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

KilOit wrote: »

Good rogues can do the highest dps in a raid if they have the synergy, we raid with 2 but you'll find that people don't want to group with them in 5 man's because without the synergy they do crap dps and are prone to taking alot of damage

Not anymore they don't They are just average DPS now. Nothing special about them. Locks and DK's is where the real DPS is at O.o

Overheal

dlofnep wrote: »

There's a reason for that -

Stealth!

I lol'd.

Yeah I went back, linked the trial with my boss and started a rogue last night. I liked it much better than a warrior anyway. Especially considering having an early ranged attack is incredibly handy just for picking goons out of a mob (did i say that right? whatever.) my biggest problem as a warrior was getting mobbed by trolls and such nonsense. and in a party its nice to make use of the backstab, im finding it impossible to use solo. Definitely more dps. Shame i have to pass on some shiny armor. but oh well, I like the style of play somewhat more.

But i guess they are fairly gear dependant.

this sounds kinda silly. any class will make more dps with better gear? or is it just rogues have access to nicer gear than most?