N8/N25/N40 - Dunkettle Interchange [open to traffic]
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The problem is simple - Dublin traffic needs to exit right, but is being mistakenly directed into the left lane. Here’s my two hours of thinking about this yesterday. It’s actually a nasty thing to try to produce signage for, as there’s a right-diverge, which is an exceptional thing and needs to be called out better than the current signs do it.
On approach, there’s too much information, and there’s a misdirect that could send drivers for Cork up the Tunnel escape lane. Here’s the existing sign:
Really, all that drivers need to know here is which lane to be in. To do this properly needs a slightly taller gantry sign on the approach to the tunnel, but the resulting sign area will be narrower, and it points only to the two traffic lanes - no danger of anyone taking the escape lane by accident, thinking it will bring them to Cork.
The existing sign misdirects Little Island traffic, which will have a much easier passage through the interchange if it comes out of the tunnel in the left lane. I’ve had to sacrifice the information that Waterford traffic can actually be in either lane for the sake of simplicity, but the right lane is probably a better choice here, to balance the use of the tunnel lanes. And anyway, local drivers will learn the truth soon enough, and they’re not the audience anyway: road signage is for drivers who’ve never been here before.
At exit from the tunnel, the existing signs give technically wrong instructions. The use of diagonal arrows here for Cork is flat out incorrect: panels with this arrow type are supposed to hang over the start of a diverging lane, but there there is no diverging lane at this point for either option. Luckily, drivers aren’t really aware of what this kind of sign means, otherwise you’d see more people entering the yellow area to the left - which pinches down to about 0.5 metres before the actual exit lane starts. The “DUBLIN” panel is confusing because sign is situated just at the emergency median break, it could result in drivers accidentally steering into that area by mistake - I think it’s actually a blessing that its shape and positioning makes it hard to see, but the real problem here is that “DUBLIN” spans two lanes, which sets drivers up for a nasty surprise just 100 metres down the road...
Here’s my suggested change - same area, but just two signage boards:
I know the combination of a lane-arrow and an "exit ahead" upward right arrow on the blue patch is non-standard, but I think it conveys the meaning well: “stay in this lane, you will exit to right”. Changing the DUBLIN board from long and flat to more square also visually ties it to the actual lane-diverge sign immediately down the road from it: the driver now has a trail of “blue square” to follow in order to reach the motorway, which the previous sign design didn’t provide.
On a side note, there’s nothing in the signage manual about patching local (black on white) destinations on national-road gantry signage. I do not believe “LITTLE ISLAND” should be in a white patch either here or on the approach sign. I’ve preserved it because the following signs use it too, but I’m not sure it’s helpful.18 -
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The problem for me with the sign is that it is trying to do too much as well as being badly laid out.
Really all it should be doing is making sure that Dublin bound traffic is in the right hand lane. The bi-directional sign further on that you can see in KrisW101's image should then do the work to get the Dublin traffic to turn off right on to the M8.
What is frustrating about this is that we have examples of this currently on our roads. This is at the northern end of the M50 where the M1 splits off. On the two lanes on the right hand side both will take you to the City Centre and Dublin Port. Howver those heading on the R132 to go toward Malahide must move into the right hand lane because the exit is off to the right. Further on the lane splits again and at that point the Malahide bound traffic is given its own sign. It's simple and it's clear.
This sign is also probably easier to read because there aren't a multiplicy of colours which I think adds to the level of confusion. It also omits the road numbers on the right-hand sign for space reasons.
I have to say that I find the non-motorway signs with their insistence of using lots of colour splashing for road types very confusing. Fine if you want to colour code the route number but leave the main background in the one colour as we do on the motorway signage.
This would be my proposal for the sign before the split similar to the one above. This is clear and concise and those heading to Dublin would be very clear on what lane they should be in.
Note: For language purists my software wouldn't allow me to put in the fadas on the Irish for "Oileán" and "Áth".
Post edited by Jayuu on5 -
Actually looking at base image again there's probably an even simpler solution which is just to square off the top blue M8 splash, put the motorway symbol, the M8 designation and the arrow on the first line and then put "Áth Cliath / Dublin" on the second line. Then place this square sign over the right hand lane only. Something akin to this structure.
Post edited by Jayuu on3 -
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The signage is pretty poor indeed on the N40 towards Dunkettle. It would seem as though they've taken inspiration from this sign towards the Red Cow Interchange in Dublin , but who knows…
This was my initial proposition (do ignore the distance hidden by the VMS sign):
However, after seeing KrisW001's reasoning for placing Little Island on the left, and the type of sign Jayuu has used, I came up with this:
As for the gantry after exiting the tunnel, all it needs is moving further up in my opinion, and a sign for Dublin M8 (as seen on the "butterfly" gantry at the actual exit) placed next to (rather than on top of) the mainline sign.
And least of our worries, but a sign like this wouldn't go amiss:
I believe this was the older way we did it, inspired by the UK (e.g. ). Nowadays I believe we only use the type of sign as you have initially proposed.
By the way, has this "Cork/City Centre" mistake since been fixed?
Post edited by EthanL13 on4 -
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I had a look again: if you follow all signs Cork, you just end up heading towards the city centre…
At the moment, heading west on the N25 it shows you should stay left for the N40 Westbound and Dublin, and stay "right" for the time being for Cork. But the exit for "Cork" comes before that of the N40 & Dublin, so then you will suddenly need to cut across lanes.
These are my proposals for the signs:
I'm unsure about the placement of the R623 and L2998 route numbers - they could possibly be removed or positioned differently. Glanmire could possibly be substituted for an industrial area symbol, considering the roundabout exit that follows Dunkettle.
And instead of this "Cork" vs "City Centre" designation, a sign like this should be placed in a prominent position somewhere around the first gantry (other destinations could possibly be added, if necessary).
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