N8/N25/N40 - Dunkettle Interchange [open to traffic]

AugustusMinimus

Is there a foot bridge already existing between Tivoli and Little Island south of the train tracks or are those pipes?

Doing a cycle walkway at the end of the Tivoli Dual Carriageway into Little Island would be very straight forward, even before Tivoli gets transformed.

hans aus dtschl

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Is there a foot bridge already existing between Tivoli and Little Island south of the train tracks or are those pipes?

Doing a cycle walkway at the end of the Tivoli Dual Carriageway into Little Island would be very straight forward, even before Tivoli gets transformed.

There's a little metal bridge in place right now, I'd guess 1 metre wide or so. It looks more like a pipe duct than anything There's a bridge on the long-term "dream" list.

It's straightforward technically to put a bridge in, but that's not the biggest issue: the whole harbour area is a protected habitat so a routing on the South of the interchange will be slow and difficult to deliver. They're not yet sure whether the preferred route will be out on the lagoon causeway, or beside the railway and either/both will affect the habitat. I think they're favouring out on the causeway because IÉ traditionally protest anything hemming them in.

Simple answer: it's still a long-term "daydream" project at this point. I'd guess more than 10 years away.


Edit: Google Maps Streetview shows the existing metal structure in a bit of detail. How anywhere with that much rubbish could be a protected habitat is another question entirely...
https://www.google.ie/maps/@51.9055482,-8.3956582,3a,75y,340.32h,88.8t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sAF1QipOZeU1teilbLQxI2jvZV6fXc1Gbk2sGHiHTjXJw!2e10!3e11!7i5472!8i2736

Treehelpplease

marno21 wrote: »

Fill material now being stockpiled at the Upjohn/Pfizer premises at Little Island:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Awn6-q3-iDE

Aerial view of N8E -> M8N link and future N8E -> Little Island link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj9VZmEa5gs

at 1.48 in the second video where does the road on the right that suddenly end go? under the M8 and to Glonthaune? to the roundabout in the first video? ih ope they plant trees along the cycle path. overall looks really nice

EDIT: I should have kept reading before replying

hans aus dtschl

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Is there a foot bridge already existing between Tivoli and Little Island south of the train tracks or are those pipes?

Doing a cycle walkway at the end of the Tivoli Dual Carriageway into Little Island would be very straight forward, even before Tivoli gets transformed.

There's a third way available also, by going between the railway line and the existing Glashaboy bridge. You wouldn't be affecting the protected habitat and you could land the greenway out at the existing Dunkettle Roundabout. A standard bridge over the railway into Tivoli would be possible at a later date with little effort.

The biggest cost on this one would be to provide a new pre-cast pedestrian/cycle bridge over the railway beside the Dunkettle Interchange.

As I understand it, this option is not being explored at present.

hans aus dtschl

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

It’s probably an additional minute of cycling.

I did my best attempt at a test by comparing between Glashaboy Bridge and the Little Island interchange (to the lights).
I did this without using the "cycle infrastructure" (lol) at North Esk.

At between 200W and 300W, with a very slight Westerly:
Eastbound (dual carriageway, including grade separated junction to the lights) approx. 5 mins seconds
Westbound (using the new arrangement) approx. 7 mins.

It's around 2 minutes slower for your average club cyclist.

Interestingly, lots and lots of walkers there today.
People used the new cycleway at North Esk to park on and walk the new route.

blindsider

They were testing the Electronic Gantry Sign, VMS(?) just West of J5 N40 (Wilton/CUH) yesterday. Looked good - very clear and easy to read.

Truckermal

blindsider wrote: »

They were testing the Electronic Gantry Sign, VMS(?) just West of J5 N40 (Wilton/CUH) yesterday. Looked good - very clear and easy to read.

I seen that, slightly O/T but I'm sick of people preaching about them being average speed camera's or even better a fcuking Toll...:rolleyes:

Same Dopes didn't know what VMS meant...

riddlinrussell

Truckermal wrote: »

I seen that, slightly O/T but I'm sick of people preaching about them being average speed camera's or even better a fcuking Toll...:rolleyes:

Same Dopes didn't know what VMS meant...

Not that average speed cameras would ever be a bad thing... but the legislation isn't passed yet for them.

AugustusMinimus

I have no doubt however that the car parking positions beside the cantilever signs are dual purpose and will be used by speed vans.

cantalach

riddlinrussell wrote: »

Not that average speed cameras would ever be a bad thing... but the legislation isn't passed yet for them.

The Dublin Port Tunnel has had average speed cameras for several years now. Why is legislation required to do the same in Cork?

hans aus dtschl

cantalach wrote: »

The Dublin Port Tunnel has had average speed cameras for several years now. Why is legislation required to do the same in Cork?

I believe the necessary/required progress is around national legislation for variable speed limits, rather than speed averaging, if that makes sense.

riddlinrussell

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I believe the necessary/required progress is around national legislation for variable speed limits, rather than speed averaging, if that makes sense.

Ah my mistake, I mixed them up. Average speed cameras should definitely be rolled out across the motorway network if the legislation is already there.

KrisW1001

The Port Tunnel is a motorway, which makes it different in law from other roads, and so would allow traffic measures that cannot be applied on normal roads. Also, as it's a long tunnel, there could have been a special case made to allow traffic monitoring on public safety grounds: the knock-on effects of a crash in an enclosed space are much, much worse than on an outdoor road.

N40 is a big road, but legally it is not special in any way. If you want to do something with speed enforcement on N40, it can only be something that's legal to do anywhere.

I'm all for average speed enforcement, and variable speed-limits at busy times: setting the limit at the possible speed in the current traffic reduces the amount of stop-start congestion.

cantalach

KrisW1001 wrote: »

The Port Tunnel is a motorway, which makes it different in law from other roads, and so would allow traffic measures that cannot be applied on normal roads.

With respect, not sure that the motorway-ness has any relevance here. Successive amendments to the RTA and related SIs have certainly put in place a different set of rules for speed limits, local limits, and temporary limits on motorways. But while the rules for setting limits are different, I don't see anything that authorises use of different enforcement practices (e.g. average speed) for those limits. Maybe I just missed it...I'm a bit bored today but not that bored. Here are all mentions of "motorway" in the RTA and related SIs:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/ResultsAll.html?q_title=%22Road+Traffic+Act%22&q=motorway&search_type=all

The word "average" has two matches in the RTA but the context is not speed, and "mean" gets three matches but where the word is used as a verb.

KrisW1001 wrote: »

N40 is a big road, but legally it is not special in any way.

Sure, but as you know from the other thread, an N40 -> M40 redesignation project is already well underway.

Leonard Hofstadter

riddlinrussell wrote: »

Ah my mistake, I mixed them up. Average speed cameras should definitely be rolled out across the motorway network if the legislation is already there.

Why should they, Motorways are by far the safest roads and 120 is NOT fast by European standards. We should have higher speed limits if anything.

riddlinrussell

Leonard Hofstadter wrote: »

Why should they, Motorways are by far the safest roads and 120 is NOT fast by European standards. We should have higher speed limits if anything.

I'd be in favour of 'Europeanizing' our motorways, average speed cameras and increase the limit to 130.

If they are safe then there is no need to ever have a Gardaí on one with a hairdryer.

I'm in favour of complete automation of traffic enforcement because the Guards constantly prove to be useless at the job. I think long distance the best method is average speed cameras.

They would be FAR down my priority list to be fair, bus lane camera enforcement, red light camera enforcement and town/city speed limit enforcement would be higher, but it's on the list.

Dunkettle would be a good spot for them as its a busy interchange, so you could pick up a lot of traffic and monitor it out the M8, M20, M40, N25 etc.

L1011

The oft-held idea that 120km/h is fast on motorways comes from it being higher than the incredibly low by international standards 112km/h of the UK

There are some sections that would not be capable of 130km/h or 140km/h; but they are very limited; just as we have 100km/h sections that are due to alignment already (Glanmire bypass) as well as the lane width (M50) or noise reductions (other bits of the M50) reasons.

blindsider

https://www.theaa.ie/aa/motoring-advice/driving-in-europe/speed-limits.aspx

130 KMH seems to be the highest in Europe, there are a few countries at that limit. Lots at 120 and a few who are lower e.g. Spain, Norway, Denmark and Sweden.

Can't see any at 140 - except Germany which is an anomaly - and not all motorways are limit free. 30% (ish) has speed limits of 120 or less.

IMO our general driving standards are not good enough to warrant an increase. Still too much messing on m-ways and DCs.

cantalach

blindsider wrote: »

https://www.theaa.ie/aa/motoring-advice/driving-in-europe/speed-limits.aspx

130 KMH seems to be the highest in Europe, there are a few countries at that limit. Lots at 120 and a few who are lower e.g. Spain, Norway, Denmark and Sweden.

Yes, and what that table doesn't show is that in many countries - including France and Italy - the motorway limit drops to 110 when wet. Given how many wet days we get here, Europeanising the speed limits could actually result in a lower limit a lot of the time.

Can't see any at 140 - except Germany which is an anomaly - and not all motorways are limit free. 30% (ish) has speed limits of 120 or less.

According to Wikipedia, even on sections of German motorway without a posted maximum, there is a national maximum recommended limit of 130. It's not an offence to exceed it per se but in the event of a collision, drivers shown to be travelling above that speed are far more likely to be found liable.

Chris_5339762

... not quite. If an accident happens above 130kmh you share part of the blame.

For instance if you're going 150kmh and someone crashes into you. Its 100% his fault. But in the eyes of the law, its say 90% his fault and 10% your fault for going faster than the recommended limit.

Leonard Hofstadter

blindsider wrote: »

https://www.theaa.ie/aa/motoring-advice/driving-in-europe/speed-limits.aspx

130 KMH seems to be the highest in Europe, there are a few countries at that limit. Lots at 120 and a few who are lower e.g. Spain, Norway, Denmark and Sweden.

Can't see any at 140 - except Germany which is an anomaly - and not all motorways are limit free. 30% (ish) has speed limits of 120 or less.

IMO our general driving standards are not good enough to warrant an increase. Still too much messing on m-ways and DCs.

Poland is 140 also. There was a stretch of motorway in Austria with a limit of 140, too - although I think it's gone now. There was provision in Italian law for limits of 150 but I don't think it ever materialised.

Famously, the Isle of Man has no speed limit.

Either 120 is definitely not fast - and thanks to a quirk in the speeding fines for England and Wales, you can't get done for speeding unless you exceed 79 mph (127 km/h) so in reality most of Britain has a higher limit than here. Don't forget their dual carriageways (including Scotland and Northern Ireland) are 70 mph (113 km/h) rather than the pedestrian 100 km/h ours are.

grogi

blindsider wrote: »

https://www.theaa.ie/aa/motoring-advice/driving-in-europe/speed-limits.aspx

130 KMH seems to be the highest in Europe, there are a few countries at that limit. Lots at 120 and a few who are lower e.g. Spain, Norway, Denmark and Sweden.

Can't see any at 140 - except Germany which is an anomaly - and not all motorways are limit free. 30% (ish) has speed limits of 120 or less.

IMO our general driving standards are not good enough to warrant an increase. Still too much messing on m-ways and DCs.

Poland is 140 km/h for instance. I hate driving there, it is often to busy and with cars flying 10% over limit it is very stressful.

On the other hand, major stretches of M8 could easily accommodate higher limit, it often is empty as moon surface

Truckermal

What has this got to do with the interchange upgrade?

spacetweek

Truckermal wrote: »

What has this got to do with the interchange upgrade?

Agreed - back to talking about the interchange please.

Truckermal

A lot of Tree cutting taking place the last few nights..

marno21

Clearance underway now on the NE corner of the Interchange roundabout with a view to commence construction of structures in this area in early 2021. Work will also commence on the new N25 bridge at Bury's Bridge and two railway bridges east of the M8 bridge in January. Further details on 2021 works will be published in the next newsletter.

This scheme is effectively now fully under construction.

AugustusMinimus

What’s the expectation for total build time. I think 3 years was previously mentioned but assume that included some of the preliminary works which have been completed.

Pete_Cavan

Does anyone know when this project officially commenced? I assume Sisk were doing some works before official start as they were on site already and was probably advantageous for them to do so. From a post here a while ago, it looks like they have been stockpiling earth from the enabling works for use on the main contract.

spacetweek

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Does anyone know when this project officially commenced? I assume Sisk were doing some works before official start as they were on site already and was probably advantageous for them to do so. From a post here a while ago, it looks like they have been stockpiling earth from the enabling works for use on the main contract.

There's been preliminary works (which includes some actual construction) going on all year.

Pete_Cavan

spacetweek wrote: »

There's been preliminary works (which includes some actual construction) going on all year.

The works which have been going on all year are the enabling works which is a separate contract. I'm asking has the main contract works actually began or are they officially required to complete the enabling works contract before the main contract officially commences? I say officially because Sisk are/will be doing both so they will do things in the way which is most advantageous to them.