N8/N25/N40 - Dunkettle Interchange [open to traffic]

AugustusMinimus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119688126#Comment_119688126

I did a thread many moons ago on here following a similar route to your orange one.

There was talk of a road from Doughcloyne to Airport Hill (+ a second Airport entrance) but haven’t heard anything in circa 10 years about it.

DylanQuestion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119688447#Comment_119688447

I agree, both the red and the orange aren't needed together. However, I think the N40 acting as an E-W through the city and a southern distributor isn't going in the long run with the city ever increasing in size outside of the N40. Either close the N40 to local traffic and build the orange (which I believe some of is planned) or close the N40 to E-W traffic at the N22 and N28 and redirect traffic to Shannonpark via Ballinhassig. As for the valleys, I am unware of how that area is laid out. However, for either of those roads to be built, we'd need to invent trees that grow money, so valleys shouldn't be a concern then 😅

Risoc

Southern bypass;

Good case for a national route from Lower Carrigtwohill to Passage via Cobh.

hans aus dtschl

Was there never a thread for this? You could perhaps cut-and-cover the N40 end-to-end traffic at enormous expense, leaving a distributor at ground level?

But before we all propose solutions, can we potentially agree on the current problems? I'd have said large volumes of short-distance commuter traffic on the N40, particularly towards the Eastern end of the N40, makes the N40 fail to function as a bypass. A second problem is that it cuts some communities in two. Anything else?

In that context, I'm not entirely sure that building a new bypass, and leaving the N40 to local distributor traffic is sensible in the current format (2+2, 100kmh). That would appear to be a pretty crappy distributor as far as I'm concerned?

I suspect the NTA are actually of the same mindset: (that the N40 is the bypass, not the distributor) and that the overriding problem is the need to scrub short-distance commuters off the N40. I could be wrong.

AugustusMinimus

The biggest issue in Cork is the building of big impenetrable blocks of housing on the outskirts.

Within the N40, especially around Togher and Bishopstown, moving in an East - West direction isn’t too difficult.

Outside the N40, the entire road network leads radially off the N40. There is no east - west access. This forces people into the N40.

Chris_5339762

Yeah there is literally no other east - west option than the N40, and efforts are (rightly) ongoing to remove traffic from any east-west options through the city, no matter how unpaletable they are anyway.

There are threads on here for -

N40 Cork North Ring Road

Cork Northern Distributor Road

Cork Southern Distributor Road

Shedite27

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119695078#Comment_119695078

How much traffic realistically goes from Glounthaune area all the way across N40 to Ballincollig anyway, I doubt it's that common a journey when you look at the trends. Most people are coming into the city or suburbs, I'd say there's very few regular commutes coming in from Carrigtoohill all the way to Ballincollig.

Imeacht gan teacht ort

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119696313#Comment_119696313

Plenty of freight traffic does, anyway.

Shedite27

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119696426#Comment_119696426

Yeah I'm not sure that'd ever warrant a new ring road really. I know if seems ages away but we'll hopefully see improvements once you can get from Midleton all the way past Ballincollig freeflow

Chris_5339762

Oh just you wait until the chaos that'll abound when the M28 is done, and a freeflow Dunkettle hits that junction and the Douglas viaduct.

When Dunkettle is done, the EVENINGS will be great, but the mornings... I predict jamups from the N28 junction merge all the way back to the tunnel every day. And thats before the M28 gets done. What they're going to end up with there is Irelands worst bottleneck.

DylanQuestion

In an ideal world, I'd love to see the N40 buried between Rochestown Park Hotel and the off ramp at J7. This helps end the dividing nature the N40 has on the city outside it and inside it (especially around Douglas). It also allows for it to be widened as realistically that won't be happening anytime soon given there are houses built right next to it. How expensive would it be? I imagine the rivers next to it don't help

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119696313#Comment_119696313

I'd say an enormous amount. Start with all the cruise liners emptying buses to Killarney. Then talk about all the fish hauliers moving Spanish fish from Castletown towards Rosslare (baffling to me!). And the hauliers moving things to and from Kerry, Kinsale and West Cork etc. Quite a lot of traffic moves between the N25 and N22/N71 to be honest.

As people before me have said, there will be no freeflow from Midleton to Ballincollig at peak hours. The Douglas section is a big problem.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119697734#Comment_119697734

That's where my head is at too. The biggest problems I expect are between Bloomfield and Douglas West. I imagine an enormous mega-project at best here to bury the N40. Possibly the North Ring N40 would be easier!

Or another thought: CPO a few houses and some land from Douglas Community School so they could widen the N40. But...SHOULD they? I agree that one of the big issues is the lack of an East-Route for short-distance commuters South and South-East of the N40 as AugustusMinimus has said. I think a second problem might be that the communities to the South-East have very few routes directly in to the city centre itself too, and they're funneling on to the N40.

KrisW1001

Unless you want to divert the river too, you can forget about any grand widening along the Douglas stretch of N40 - the path of the N40 follows the river valley (west of here, the Cork-Macroom railway took the same route - that railway alignment is now the N27 City Link, and N40 from Kinsale Road to just west of Curraheen Park). But river-banks are unstable places to build, especially in low-lying places like Cork. The road is built as close to the river as is safe - to make it any wider, would mean extensive drainage and diversion works - it would be cheaper to just build a new road somewhere else.

As for the “severed community”, this isn’t due to the road. Historically, Douglas was always a divided*- the Tramore River (or Douglas River if you want) ran through it, with only a couple of bridges over, but at least you could see one side from the other. Douglas was always isolated from Cork - first by a river (and floodplain) then by a road. On this map from around 1950 or so, you can see how little the ways in and out of the city have changed for people in Douglas: there are still the same two radial roads.

(* actually, historically historically, Douglas was the village to the south of the Douglas River; the one to the north was Tramore. Earlier maps name both places, but by the time this map was made, Tramore had disappeared as a place name)

hans aus dtschl

I'd say you could cantilever the road at enormous cost? But basically you're right on all counts.

On the severed community, I'd argue that it's not a totally fair comparison to compare historical connectivity with the current environment: the level of growth in the Douglas area following the completion of the N40 (aided by the N40?) makes it a whole new thing. Having lived there, it's just so difficult to get between Douglas/Frankfield/Donnybrook and the city. It's even difficult to get onto the N40! I think they need better linkage to the city alright. You'd hope some projects like the Tramore Valley Park bridge etc could make small dents into the problem.

Chris_5339762

Douglas I don't think will ever be widened (even though the 2 lane section is the grand total of 1 mile long). The solution will be to route traffic via a North Ring, if that ever gets built.

There is actually space (just about, if you eyeball it) to widen the Douglas flyover westbound only. That could be an option, and my brilliant idea to widen the flyover on the south side, and have M28 traffic travelling over that bit, only merging when the J7 lane appears.

Shedite27

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119697879#Comment_119697879

I'd say when you compare it's not enormous, 17,000 go past Fermoy each day, between the two biggest cities in the country, be much less going down to county towns.

I'd say there's similar that goes past Castlemartyr each day, which is a much easier bypass and still hasn't met the cost/benefit threshold.

hans aus dtschl

You make a good point: Castlemartyr is quite dysfunctional too.

I guess the difference is that the N40 is already DC and affecting more people as a result.

Chris_5339762

Castlemartyr is a joke, just like ClareGalway there is no reasonable excuse for there not to be a short relief road. Although I still think that Cork - Youghal should be a 2+2 at the very least. There is at least some work going on on Killeagh and Castlemartyr, although I'm not sure anymore if that is just for local bypasses or for Midleton - Youghal. I thought the former but wording on various things tells me the latter is possible. There's a thread about that on here too somewhere.

cargo

I see the works to get the retaining wall down as you exit the JLT have slipped by a week. They had hoped to be complete by Friday 14th but this weeks newsletter is giving Friday 21st as completion date. I don't travel that way as a regular commute or anything but it must be tough for those that do.

AugustusMinimus

The 2 lanes on the N25W off slip to go through the tunnel will be rerouted under ST05 in the next few weeks.

I suspect that this won’t be a free flow solution with lights metering traffic so that traffic off the roundabout heading towards the tunnel will be kept separate.

Roundabout to tunnel will be down to 1 lane.

Corkladddd!!

Where did you see the roundabout to the tunnel to 1 lane? That'll be madness!

The one I noticed was that there is only 1 lane coming on the slip road off N25 to N8 (if you've made a mistake and not continued over the flyover) and M8; for those of the persuasion of diving down this lane and cutting across to get to the tunnel they may have a very short future ahead!

cantalach

The cost of putting an existing dual carriageway underground is enormous. Boston’s Big Dig buried their 2.4km long Central Artery at a final cost of $24B, i.e. $10B per km. Granted, the two environments are very different but it gives an idea.

cork_south

From yesterday's update:

Traffic Management measures remain in place on the northbound lanes between the Jack Lynch Tunnel and the Interchange Roundabout. The works to construct the new retaining wall are continuing – see photograph below. These works are adding to delays at peak times and the works will continue over the coming weekend with a view to minimising this disruption.

=====

had the misfortune to use the tunnel 4 times today and can confirm nobody was onsite.

AugustusMinimus

https://youtube.com/watch?v=0fxcuMEl2eY&feature=share&utm_source=EKLEiJECCKjOmKnC5IiRIQ

Those link roads look very close to completion.

AugustusMinimus

More ongoing surfacing under ST05 this morning.

Mushy

Still no dates (seem to be coming next week), but seems like the n8 from City to Little Island/glounthaune is going to open soon, including the flyover. Would almost guess this will open at same time as heading into tunnel from east cork. So no more traffic from city onto interchange roundabout, will they remove the set of lights under the existing flyover?

Getting out of Eastgate may be easier if living east cork to head to new flyover and around that way.

AugustusMinimus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119744235#Comment_119744235

City to Tunnel movement will still need to use the roundabout?

Mushy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119744310#Comment_119744310

Oh yeah forgot about them

KrisW1001

My understanding was that this extra overpass was to feed the loop that takes traffic from N8 and sends it into the tunnel, as shown below: