Southampton relegated

kensutz

10 point deduction. 2 down 1 to go, hopefully Barnsley

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/southampton/8014811.stm

20 Times 20 Times

MrJoesoap wont be happy , when ever he is now a-days.

mike65

Well they had to deduct points if they were to be consistant.

Xavi6

Sarge wrote: »

MrJoesoap wont be happy , when ever he is now a-days.

Don't worry, he's alive and well.

Sad to see another big club go by the wayside.

gimmick

I am going to Charlton Vs Norwich last day of the season. Hope Norwich are not relegated by then. Could be a cracker.

kensutz

Lucky git, we weren't able to get tickets for it because the ticket office at Norwich made a massive blunder.

gimmick

I think away tickets are still available on the Charlton website. Plenty home tickest. Plus surely ye could show up on the day?

kensutz

Nope the whole away allocation is sold out and we applied for more tickets but they refused on the basis that season ticket holders will have to be moved.

yom 1

BBC wrote:

If they do not avoid finishing in the bottom three then the points penalty will take effect next season.

I dont get this at all. Why does it matter if they avoid the drop, points wise or not? If they are to punish them today, then surely the punishment starts today, not dependant on their results. The article states that if they mangae to avoid the relegation zone this season then the points dedcution will kick in and they will be deducted 10 points and relegated. If they dont then the deduction of points occurs next season. Is this not effectively a double punishment if they get relegated anyway and then start next season -10 points when it should really be their points tally this season -10.

premierstone

yom 1 wrote: »

I dont get this at all. Why does it matter if they avoid the drop, points wise or not? If they are to punish them today, then surely the punishment starts today, not dependant on their results. The article states that if they mangae to avoid the relegation zone this season then the points dedcution will kick in and they will be deducted 10 points and relegated. If they dont then the deduction of points occurs next season. Is this not effectively a double punishment if they get relegated anyway and then start next season -10 points when it should really be their points tally this season -10.

It is to stop Clubs who are already doomed deliberately going into admin, getting a deduction that has no effect, and starting afresh the following season.

smackbunnybaby

i was at Norwich and Sheffield Wednesday on the final day of last season when both teams had a chance of going down, more so Wednesday.
Great day as Wednesday won 4-1 and stayed up, and Norwich obviously did too.
It was Dion Dublin's last game and Hillsborough gave him a standing ovation.

I think Norwich were offered tickets for a fiver by Wednesday and Norwich put on buses for 15 quid return.
The stadium was near on full capacity about 36-37k.
What a day!

MrJoeSoap

yom 1

premierstone wrote: »

It is to stop Clubs who are already doomed deliberately going into admin, getting a deduction that has no effect, and starting afresh the following season.

I can understand that but in this case Southampton went into administration when they were still in with a chance of survival. They werent trying to bend the rules to make the deduction of points a non event as they were already down, so the deduction should count right away. I think it would be very harsh for them to start next season -10.

20 Times 20 Times

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

fecking , long time mate . I take it this will be your last post for another 2+ years

premierstone

yom 1 wrote: »

I can understand that but in this case Southampton went into administration when they were still in with a chance of survival. They werent trying to bend the rules to make the deduction of points a non event as they were already down, so the deduction should count right away. I think it would be very harsh for them to start next season -10.

They will only start next season -10 if they would have been relegated this season without the reduction

DSB

yom 1 wrote: »

I can understand that but in this case Southampton went into administration when they were still in with a chance of survival. They werent trying to bend the rules to make the deduction of points a non event as they were already down, so the deduction should count right away. I think it would be very harsh for them to start next season -10.

Theres no way the punishment should have no effect on them, which if they were to be relegated anyway, it would. That would just be unfair to clubs who run their finances properly.

yom 1

premierstone wrote: »

They will only start next season -10 if they would have been relegated this season without the reduction

And there in lies the problem - if they havent tried to pull a fast one, which they haven't, the deduction should be effective immediately thus guaranteeing their relegation now. It should not be a case of if you beat the drop your relegated, if not you start next season -10.

_blank_

premierstone wrote: »

It is to stop Clubs who are already doomed deliberately going into admin, getting a deduction that has no effect, and starting afresh the following season.

Exactly, it happened with two clubs in the LoI Premier last season.

As soon as they had nothing to play for, bang, Administration, they took the points penalty, but it was essentially meaningless as they were in no danger of relegation, and couldn't win the thing either.

I'm glad the punishment is meaningful in this instance.

Necronomicon

It's strange to think of Southampton vs Charlton being a League 1 fixture next season. Really goes to show how tough the Championship is for teams who are relegated.

yom 1

DSB wrote: »

Theres no way the punishment should have no effect on them, which if they were to be relegated anyway, it would. That would just be unfair to clubs who run their finances properly.

I understand this - but surely that fact that it guarantees relegation now when they could have survived is a punishment. If they held out on entering administration until the end of the season or they were already relegated then fine -10 next season it is. IMO its a bit of a double whammy if they start next season -10

Necronomicon

yom 1 wrote: »

And there in lies the problem - if they havent tried to pull a fast one, which they haven't, the deduction should be effective immediately thus guaranteeing their relegation now. It should not be a case of if you beat the drop your relegated, if not you start next season -10.

Actually, they almost did it seems.

The difficulty for the Football League is simple. If the directors of Southampton manage to avoid a statutory ten-point deduction by placing the holding company, Southampton Leisure Holdings, not the football club, into administration with debts of £27.5m, a lengthy line of aggrieved chairmen will begin beating a path to Mawhinney’s door.

He has, after all, clobbered every similarly stricken club with a savage penalty in recent years, leading to relegation, demotion and ambition cut off at the knee.

Mawhinney who, like the new breed of football administrators, comes from a political background, is not quite as sharp as he thinks. Indeed, sifting through the wreckage of this train crash, he is not very sharp at all. Rupert Lowe, Southampton’s former chairman and chief executive, may have made a career of getting relegated and pointing fingers, but even he may have got the upper hand this time.

Lowe deduced that Mawhinney’s rulebook contained a loophole so large it could lasso an ox and went about exploiting it. His clever use of a technicality — quite possibly the cleverest thing he has done at Southampton, apart from resigning — is what has sent the Football League into this nervous huddle.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1168373/MARTIN-SAMUEL-The-Saints-sinners---Lord-above.html

Fratton Fred

Xavi6 wrote: »

Sad to see another big club go by the wayside.

Big club? never were, never will be tbh.:P

I'm supposed to be delighted with this. don't get me wrong, I am looking forward to slagging the Saints fans who were quick to slag us over the years, but I find it very difficult to get any sort of joy out of a club like Southampton potentially going bust.

They managed themselves fairly well over the years and as much as I dislike Rupert Lowe, he managed to run the club's finances pretty well. from the outside it looks like it all started going wrong when he was ousted the first time.

They went into Administration after the 4th thursday in March btw, which is the FA's cut off date to apply the rule which states the points can be deducted next season if they go down anyway.

yom 1

Fratton Fred wrote: »

They went into Administration after the 4th thursday in March btw, which is the FA's cut off date to apply the rule which states the points can be deducted next season if they go down anyway.

I didnt realise there was a cut off date for this rule, cheers Fratton Fred.

If thats the case then they knew at the time of going into administration of the potential use of this rule so its fair enough I suppose

dogpile

As a Leeds fan I can only be amused by this...they all laughed at us and voted on it for good measure!! little did they know what they had sewn...they now reap!!!


10pts is only the start of their worries, they've admin and a CVA to get through(which they won't) ....I see the future for Southampton, yes it's L2

DSB

yom 1 wrote: »

I understand this - but surely that fact that it guarantees relegation now when they could have survived is a punishment. If they held out on entering administration until the end of the season or they were already relegated then fine -10 next season it is. IMO its a bit of a double whammy if they start next season -10

Not strong enough punishment, if there was always a likelihood they would have went down anyways.

event

yom 1 wrote: »

I can understand that but in this case Southampton went into administration when they were still in with a chance of survival. They werent trying to bend the rules to make the deduction of points a non event as they were already down, so the deduction should count right away. I think it would be very harsh for them to start next season -10.

well this is what happened to leeds

we put ourselves into administration when we were mathematically relegated from the championship. there was no rule against this, so we did nothing wrong.

they then deducted us 15 point for the next year

we appealed and iirc, around 85% of all football league clubs agreed with this.

so the FA will do this to every team in this situation. and more than likely, southampton agreed to this and didnt stand up when they could have and back leeds

so i have no sympathy for any club this happens to, tough

premierstone

event wrote: »

well this is what happened to leeds

we put ourselves into administration when we were mathematically relegated from the championship. there was no rule against this, so we did nothing wrong.

they then deducted us 15 point for the next year

we appealed and iirc, around 85% of all football league clubs agreed with this.

so the FA will do this to every team in this situation. and more than likely, southampton agreed to this and didnt stand up when they could have and back leeds

so i have no sympathy for any club this happens to, tough

Clubs didnt back Leeds because it was the correct punishment then and it is the correct punishment now, Clubs dont go into administration by accident you know!

event

premierstone wrote: »

Clubs didnt back Leeds because it was the correct punishment then and it is the correct punishment now, Clubs dont go into administration by accident you know!

even though there was no penalty for what we did when we did it?

premierstone

Its called precedent