Two questions: camcorder and video editing software

AARRRGH

Hello all

I hope someone can help me with this.

I am looking to buy a camcorder and video editing software.

1. The camcorder:

The camcorder should be capable of recoding video of roughly this quality: http://dlf.tv/2009/david-and-moby. Note the widescreen and fairly crisp quality.

Budget: < €1500, but preferably < €1000.

2. The software:

The video editing software should allow me to -

Be able to insert scenes or images throughout the recording.
Add music or dub some speech over a scene or image.
Edit the recording in such a way so that the speech from the current scene continues while I show video or an image from a different scene.
Replace the background (assuming I use a green screen).
Add some text (font and style defined by me) over parts of a scene, such as displaying someone's name.
Blur part of the video, e.g. blur a logo on someone's t-shirt.

Basically, all the things you would expect in a 'documentary' type recording.

Budget: No idea.

...

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Dodser

Software: I recommend Final Cut Pro AND Adobe After Effects. They are 2 serious pieces of software used by industry professionals. Final cut pro for the editing and After Effects for the green screen compositing stuff.
Final Cut Pro costs about 700 sterling and After Effects about a grand. (By the way Final Cut is only available on mac while After effects is available for both platforms.)

The piece of footage you've selected looks like it's been shot on HD. I won't profess to know what available and for what cost, but do bear in mind that footage was professionally lit. A good lighting cameraman with professional lamps can make a poor camera look good!

Hope this is of some help

keefg

That clip was most probably shot with a full HD camera such as the Sony EX1, they cost about 10 grand (euro)once you factor in extra batteries, charges, SXS cards, tripod, mics etc etc.

If you are looking for something under a grand then your only option really is a small consumer camcorder, I would suggest one with a hard drive, there are plenty around for under a grand, just take a trip to Peats or somewhere for info on the camera you like then shop around to compare prices.

A lot of people spend too much time trying to get a certain picture quality, but forget about the sound. The built in mics on even top end camcorders are pretty crap so you need something that will allow you to plug in an external mic (don't forget to factor in the cost of a mic & lead into your budget.

There are other things to consider as well (that people forget to include in their budget), you will most likely need......and this is just for very basic camera work, interviews etc...

1) Camcorder.
2) At least one extra battery (pref Hi-capacity)
3) Tripod (with fluid head)
4) External mic of some sort.
5) Top light
6) for some cameras you might need to buy a firewire cable as well

As for editing, there are plenty of freebee basic suites around, if you are using a PC then I guess Moviemaker is for you.

I can't help you with the blurring effect though, never had to do it.

keefg

Dodser wrote: »

Software: I recommend Final Cut Pro AND Adobe After Effects. They are 2 serious pieces of software used by industry professionals

Yep, FCP is the dogs alright but I doubt if it will be any use to a novice (unless the OP is prepared to splash out a 800 euro for a basic training course).

BTW, I am assuming the OP is a novice going by his post.

meep

Keefg just beat me to it

Footage of that quality requires more than just a cheap (by pro standards) camera).

If you're looking at cheapie consumer cameras, Sony's AVCHD Hard Drive cameras are surprisingly good. I have an SR10 and have been pleasently surpriseed by it.

Of course you need to budget for all the accesories etc. as well.

Note, if you are planning green screen work, this is quite specialised in acquisition and post. Good (and seperate) lighting of the screen and subject are important as are subject and camera placement etc. Pulling a good key in post is a function of good initial footage, good software tools and lots of operator experience. It's also heavily dependent on the codec used to shoot the material. DV and HDV are rubbish for this work as there is not enough information in the signal.

On the editing side, Final Cut Styudio comes with everything you need in a package but at a cost and with a steep learning curve. Final Cut Light or whatever it's called is a slimmed down version that might do to start with. iMovie is free but basic. All the above are mac solutions, I'm not too au fait with PC solutions.

Final cut pro will allow for rudimentary blurring as stated. Motion will allow more complex solutions with motion tracking etc. but again at the expense of a bit of learning.

Maybe consider hiring gear to start out? You will get much better equipment for a good few shoots from somewhare like Film Base for the budget you have. Maybe think about hiring someone with a camera and experience to shoot for you and focus on the editing side of things?

Do you really need the gear?

Just some thoughts

Peter

artvandulet

You all seem to be assuming he has a Mac. Chances are you don't, right?
For a complete beginner who wants good results without a huge learning curve or breaking the bank, try Corel VideoStudio X2 Pro Ultimate. Really is a great piece of software for the money.

As far as that interview goes - forget it. As a previous poster said, half the quality there is down to the lighting and I assume you aren't budgeting for a few blondes and redheads (the names would mean something if you did!).

A lot of that kind of thing is either shot on DigiBeta or even XDCAM these days. Both well well out of your budget too.
Get a 3CCD MiniDV camera or a solid state/hard drive based camera that can shoot at least 720p.

The other BIG issue which hasnt been addressed is sound! Thats a whole lot more of the budget. Simply using the onboard mic on a camera will not give you results anywhere near whats in that clip. As you can see - both people have a condenser mic over their heads, probably fed into something like an SQN and then into the camera(s).
Make sure your camera has an XLR connection for a microphone/line level connection. This will ensure that when you do decide to use decent mics you will be able to take the proper 'feed' from the sound mixer or plug a mic directly in.

I could go on...:D

keefg

***AHEM***.........Did you actually read any of the posts on this thread artvandulet?

artvandulet wrote: »

You all seem to be assuming he has a Mac.

keefg wrote: »

As for editing, there are plenty of freebee basic suites around, if you are using a PC then I guess Moviemaker is for you.

artvandulet wrote: »

The other BIG issue which hasnt been addressed is sound!

keefg wrote: »

A lot of people spend too much time trying to get a certain picture quality, but forget about the sound. The built in mics on even top end camcorders are pretty crap so you need something that will allow you to plug in an external mic (don't forget to factor in the cost of a mic & lead into your budget.

:cool::P

Dodser

Just a thought. If you're shooting using natural light (outdoor) there is no need to invest in lighting equipment. I've found shooting with a Canon XM 1 the footage to be of really good quality. I'm probably going off post here a bit, but it's really important to know exactly what and where you're going to be using the camera. For example: Green screen shot on a bright, but overcast day is certainly do-able.

AARRRGH

Thanks everyone! Loads of great advice so far. I really appreciate it.

OK. I have some ideas for the camera so. I will try to get some demos of the software mentioned (I use a PC) to see which ones I like.

Can any of you recommend a cheap light and microphone?

decob

Dodser wrote: »

Just a thought. If you're shooting using natural light (outdoor) there is no need to invest in lighting equipment. I've found shooting with a Canon XM 1 the footage to be of really good quality. I'm probably going off post here a bit, but it's really important to know exactly what and where you're going to be using the camera. For example: Green screen shot on a bright, but overcast day is certainly do-able.

and then for whoever is doing the chroma keying in post to spend days swearing at you for an unevenly lit greenscreen and near impossible to get a decent key from it. then have to spend more time manually rotoscoping it.... thats the perfect example of 'ah sure, we'll fix it in post'.

Any greenscreen work should be done with proper lighting and a proper greenscreen - and shooting it progressively also helps.
I had stuff before shot outside on a relatively good day, the "greenscreen" sheet bellowing in the wind, subject had blond hair - completely overexposed from the sun... fun times keying it

Dodser

`interfit super cool-lite 5 twin head kit at about 350 -400 euro is a good 'starter'. They come with softboxes, reflectors and stands.

artvandulet

keefg wrote: »

***AHEM***.........Did you actually read any of the posts on this thread artvandulet?

I guess I just skimmed. Thats quite a cough you've got there:D

godfrey

a cheap mic will sound exactly that - cheap. please - get a sound recordist with experience to show you a few things before you buy OR record anything. you'll thank me & them afterwards. it's not for nothing they charge in excess of €350/day for 1 guy with basic kit.

for clip mics, check out the Sony ECM77 (from about €90 used on eBay)
for rifle mics, Sennheiser 416 with a Rycote windshield (blimp etc - essential for any outdoor work) (will be about €700 used)

both the aboce mics require phantom power from your mixer or camera (ECM can use internal battery but I don't recommend it)

for headphones, Sennheiser HD25 of Beyer DT48 - DONT use DT100's, they're not suitable for critical listening in your situation

I really hope this is helpful to you. don't be afraid to ask questions. DO be afraid to take short cuts!!

cheers ~

g

keefg

artvandulet wrote: »

I guess I just skimmed. Thats quite a cough you've got there:D

I'll get it looked at

AARRRGH wrote: »

Can any of you recommend a cheap light and microphone?

Unfortunately there isn't much in the Pro-AV market that's cheap

Here are a few linky's for you to shop around (of course there's also ebay but beware of scammers & fake gear)

http://www.camerakit.ie/index.asp
http://www.proav.co.uk/
http://www.mitcorp.com/public/index.php

What are you looking to shoot, is it just for 2 person interviews? If so, you will really need 2 sets of lapel radio mics (which ain't cheap) or the sound will be pretty crap (for trying to record 2 people sitting apart) even with a camera mounted shotgun mic.

If it's just one person talking to camera then you can use just one radio mic.

As for lights, a cheap alternative is to use those yellow builders lights on stands from B&Q. But they are a bit harsh and will need diffusing with some (non-flamable ) material in front of the light.

Have a look on You Tube for advice on how to light an interview situation using the 3 point system.

Will you be recording a lot of stuff on a regular basis? If so, then it's worth spending a few quid to get the right gear.

Or as suggested by meep in the post above, if it's a one off shoot then just hire in a crew.

godfrey wrote: »

a cheap mic will sound exactly that - cheap.

Very true.