Help with warrior tank please.

D

I recently dinged 80 with my troll warrior. (took just over 8 days 11 hours)

I am trying to get my gear up to standard to start doing heroics.

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Defias+Brotherhood&n=V%C3%B3ljin

Any tips on how I can improve? I was told by another warrior that the bare minimum is defence to 540.

Anti

Tankspot.com

Spend a few hours reading the forums, and watching the guides.

Mr. CooL ICE

For heroics, the bare minimum is 535, 540 for raids to be crit capped. Reason being that heroic bosses are considered lvl82, while raid bosses are considered lvl83.


First, adjust your spec. Take the points out of focused rage and place them in Conc Blow, Vigilance and maxing 1h Spec. If you are stuck for rage during fights, then replace the points you took from Focused rage with 3 from Cruelty. However, this is considered the best prot warrior spec at the moment.

Once you reach 535 defense, next start working on your hit points. For heroics, you would need a minimum of about 22k health (some groups won't take you unless you have 24k). This can easily be obtained through BoE gear, as long as you are willing to part with some cash.

The Tattered Castle Drape should be on the AH. Enchant this with Titanweave. Tempered Titansteel Treads can be crafted through farmed mats, or bought if youre lazy. Either way, get them and slap +22 stamina onto them. Waistguard of the Risen Knight can be bought on AH, and an Eternal Belt Buckle can be placed along with a gem of your choice. Your wrists and shield can be enchanted with 40sta and 20def, while your chest can be enchanted with either 22def or +275hp. Also, this quest can give you one of the best pre-epic tanking weapons in the game at the moment. Don't forget that you could also enchant your legs with +55sta/22agi with one of these


There are cheaper ways of preparing yourself for heroics, but this should be a good start.

D

Thanks for the replies guys. When I dinged 80 I was in blues with 456 defence. But after talking with guys I blew 1.5k gold on the ah to get me to 518 now. There were only 2 other armour upgrades on AH but they both cost about 1.9k gold each.

First, adjust your spec. Take the points out of focused rage and place them in Conc Blow, Vigilance and maxing 1h Spec. If you are stuck for rage during fights, then replace the points you took from Focused rage with 3 from Cruelty. However, this is considered the best prot warrior spec at the moment.

My current spec is lifted directly from ciderhelm, who is one of tank spots mods. Although I did switch the points in one-handed and cruelty, because I felt that most of my aggro is coming from shield slam and HS. But if you really think I should I will switch them back. Conc blow is a pvp skill imo, and vigilance is only useful if you can't hold aggro. At the moment I have absolutely no problem with holding aggro.

Once you reach 535 defense, next start working on your hit points. For heroics, you would need a minimum of about 22k health (some groups won't take you unless you have 24k). This can easily be obtained through BoE gear, as long as you are willing to part with some cash.

Yeah sometimes I think I should have gone tauren for this reason but it only lasts a second generally with buff I go 23k but yeah, I still need to beef up.

At this moment I am currently grinding the 80 dungeons but its hard to find a group as most dps go straight to heroic. A friend pointed to wyrmwrest accord rep for a good cloak so I intend to start doing that now.

Mr. CooL ICE

D wrote: »

At this moment I am currently grinding the 80 dungeons but its hard to find a group as most dps go straight to heroic. A friend pointed to wyrmwrest accord rep for a good cloak so I intend to start doing that now.

Yeah, it sucks that tanks are required to reach a standard gear level before anyone will play with them. I was guildless when I dinged, but was lucky to have made it onto a lot of people's friend lists when levelling from 70-80 so was always asked to do heroics when I reached 80

For rep, its best to go for Argent Crusade rep first. Get them to reverred for the head enchant, then abandon them (no useful exalted rewards) and move to either Wyrmrest (for chest and said cloak) or go with Kirin Tor, if you can stick it out to the exalted stage (for the hands. Ignore if youve got the Gun'Drak/T7 hands).

Also, start working on your Sons Of Hodir rep. Decent shoulder enchant after honored.

Blowfish

LordChessington wrote: »

Yeah, it sucks that tanks are required to reach a standard gear level before anyone will play with them.

Indeed, it's the same with healers too. I can understand the reasoning behind it though as healing badly geared tanks through even the easy heroics can be a nightmare.

copeyhagen

http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f97/41986-cider-s-easy-540-defense-gear-guide.html

ciders 540 def guide.

as long as you get the def cap, start building towards a minimum of 25k hp. thats when i started to feel comfortable tanking heroics.

then go from there, get into naxx groups as ot and likely their mt will be egared so you reap the benefits

now i got a dk tank and a warrior tank.

tanking is the mutts nutts

Anti

Agreed, tanking is awesome fun. I know my first comment on this thread was stupidly short but it really is best to read through the tankspot forums as much as possible. You can use EJ, but i find it full of stuck up ***** to be honest. Running normal or even heroic instances to grab as many tanking items as possible will help too, and dont sell/DE anything yet. Always try to have a Block set and a dodge set. As well as a threat set. Your almost best to ignore parry items as the stat i find worthless to be honest.

Your spec is fine too, nothing wrong with it, although i do prefere 12/5/54 myself and i do glyph slightly different to you.

I would link you my armory but its currently showing me as in my fury set for some reason?? If you have any questions you can always send copey, karlhungus and myself a pm on here.

Anti

Okay armory is now working it seems.... Well kinda it has my stats all messed up but the gear seems to be right.

Oh and yeah, im not one of the ciderhelp/kungen sheeps that follow's their specs ^^

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Moonglade&n=Maerwynn

D

Got up to the 540 mark today jumped in a CoS HC had no problem with aggro with bosses, people only died once where they tried to rush the street that was in flames to get the timed bit. Pretty happy over all. Now to get my HP up...

D

Hp now at 25k, have OT nax 10 and Voa 10.

The adds on the Voa 10 were tough, only because sometimes it was hard to get a lock on them behind the boss, that and sometimes they just wouldn't come after me with my taunt or throw.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Ok some of your talents are wasted, you need to respec and change some things...

You do not need improved thunderclap, it's a waste. You do not need incite. I suggest taking puncture and improved spell reflection. You also need to take improved disiplines and concussion blow, this is another interupt at the very least. If your taunt is on CD, along with charge etc etc, if someone pulls aggro, and they will, you can use this to buy you some time.. Then take vigilance, this is very handy, I too don't have a problem with aggro. You also need to free up points to take deep wounds.

Keep dodge and parry at about 25% as they suffer from diminishing returns, you can have as much block as you want, but you are better with stamina.

Anti is talking about TBC, do NOT ignore parry. You need this, and it is very important.

Check out Gilenrai from executus if you need to look at it.

Mr. CooL ICE

Alvaro Cool Cork wrote: »

You do not need improved thunderclap, it's a waste. You do not need incite. I suggest taking puncture and improved spell reflection. You also need to take improved disiplines and concussion blow, this is another interupt at the very least. If your taunt is on CD, along with charge etc etc, if someone pulls aggro, and they will, you can use this to buy you some time.. Then take vigilance, this is very handy, I too don't have a problem with aggro. You also need to free up points to take deep wounds.

Keep dodge and parry at about 25% as they suffer from diminishing returns, you can have as much block as you want, but you are better with stamina.

Totally disagree here. Improved thunderclap is desirable because warrior AoE aggro is too weak without it, and incite combined with impale also helps here. Improved spell reflect is more like a PvP talent tbh, and some bosses are immune to it. Don't really see the need for improved disciplines and it also seems like a waste since as a tank you will only be using 1/3 of its benefits. However, conc blow is great if used properly, and vigilance also helps in a lot of situations.

Dodge is the best stat for mitigation, but I would recommend concentrating on SBR and SBV as no rage is gained when an attack is dodged. However, this is up to you if you think you are having rage problems or not

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

LordChessington wrote: »

Totally disagree here. Improved thunderclap is desirable because warrior AoE aggro is too weak without it

It is not needed. If you cannot tank a few mobs then there is something seriously wrong with your ability to tank.

and incite combined with impale also helps here.

Incite is not needed, impale is though. Using them both with thunderclap is viable but not essential to tank.

Improved spell reflect is more like a PvP talent tbh, and some bosses are immune to it.

This is an excellent tallent, not for PVP at all. How many mobs do you tank that uses spells on you? Quite a lot.

Don't really see the need for improved disciplines and it also seems like a waste since as a tank you will only be using 1/3 of its benefits.

Don't quite understand what you mean here. only use 1/3 of it's benefits? 60 second cooldown on your shield wall is a huge benifit. It's a life saver.

Dodge is the best stat for mitigation, but I would recommend concentrating on SBR and SBV as no rage is gained when an attack is dodged. However, this is up to you if you think you are having rage problems or not

SBR and SBV is what exactly?

magicianz

Shield block rating and shield block value i think

Mr. CooL ICE

Alvaro Cool Cork wrote: »

It is not needed. If you cannot tank a few mobs then there is something seriously wrong with your ability to tank

Y'see, warrior tanks are not the same as pally tanks. Try holding aggro for 10+ mobs while a mage is casting blizzard and guess what happens? Dead mage. Same for improved cleave-spamming fury warrior. Nothing to do with tanking ability, just class ability

Alvaro Cool Cork wrote: »

SBR and SBV is what exactly?

Shield block rating and shield block value



Just out of curiosity... What experience do you have playing warriors?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

LordChessington wrote: »

Y'see, warrior tanks are not the same as pally tanks. Try holding aggro for 10+ mobs while a mage is casting blizzard and guess what happens?

Where did I say 10? I said a few. Which is easy. Aoe tanking can be left to paladins and deathknights. If you cannot hold aggro on a few mobs you should change your class. You are not fit to be a tank.

Same for improved cleave-spamming fury warrior. Nothing to do with tanking ability, just class ability

I very very rarely use cleave, I never spec for improved cleave, waste of talent points.

Just out of curiosity... What experience do you have playing warriors?

Are you going to tell me that I don't know what I am talking about?

I have played the game since release, after a few weeks I specced prot, I have been prot ever since. I went DPS at the start of WOTLK fulltime and a few months ago I changed back to prot. Tanking in Ulduar at the moment, first 7 bosses down in 25 man. I cut back on my raiding compared to what I done in TBC. In TBC I was MT for a few differant guilds, being class leader for two of them guilds, doing everything but kael and SWP. I don't find tanking a challange, it's simple for me. One guild I was the off tank, slam/ms, and fury warrior.

What experience have you got?

Mr. CooL ICE

Alvaro Cool Cork wrote:

Where did I say 10? I said a few. Which is easy. Aoe tanking can be left to paladins and deathknights. If you cannot hold aggro on a few mobs you should change your class. You are not fit to be a tank.

You never said 10, but situations may arise where there won't be a pally or DK tank around. It is then that you need to hold aggro for that many mobs. I never said that it would be 2-3 mobs, but even if you are only holding 2-3 mobs, thunderclap with talents may not be vital but certainly not a waste either. IMO, speccing only for ideal situations is a very bad idea.

Alvaro Cool Cork wrote:

I very very rarely use cleave, I never spec for improved cleave, waste of talent points.

But a lot of fury warriors I have played with are specced into improved cleave, along with glyph. Even if they are assisting the main target, they tend to be an aggro magnet.

Alvaro Cool Cork wrote:

Are you going to tell me that I don't know what I am talking about?

I have played the game since release, after a few weeks I specced prot, I have been prot ever since. I went DPS at the start of WOTLK fulltime and a few months ago I changed back to prot. Tanking in Ulduar at the moment, first 7 bosses down in 25 man. I cut back on my raiding compared to what I done in TBC. In TBC I was MT for a few differant guilds, being class leader for two of them guilds, doing everything but kael and SWP. I don't find tanking a challange, it's simple for me. One guild I was the off tank, slam/ms, and fury warrior.

What experience have you got?

Going by some of the advice that you are giving to a new 80 who is trying to gear up, it did seem like you didn't know what you were talking about. But you have seen more content than I have.

I will admit I have have never tried specciing without improved thunderclap and incite. However, a lot of my knowledge of warrior tanks is done through research as I don't have the time, patience or know-how for a lot of theorycraft. I leave this up to the elitist jerks at tankspot and, err, elitistjerks. My previous statements about improved thunderclap, incite, improved spell reflect and improved disciplines can be backed up by the PvE prot guide here and the PvP prot guide here. However, feel free to prove Ciderhelm et all wrong, but please post about it here!

Dustaz

Alvaro Cool Cork wrote: »

Are you going to tell me that I don't know what I am talking about?

If he wont, i sure as hell will. You're talking through your hole.

If you cannot hold aggro on a few mobs you should change your class. You are not fit to be a tank.

If you think that Improved Thunderclap isnt a great talent for multi mob tanking then your not fit to be a tank tbh. The OP isnt tanking Yogg, hes doing nax pugs and heroics. IT is a good talent for this application.

I very very rarely use cleave, I never spec for improved cleave, waste of talent points.

Sorry, I disregarded any talent input you might hava after you suggesting speccing into puncture

I have played the game since release, after a few weeks I specced prot, I have been prot ever since. I went DPS at the start of WOTLK fulltime and a few months ago I changed back to prot. Tanking in Ulduar at the moment, first 7 bosses down in 25 man. I cut back on my raiding compared to what I done in TBC. In TBC I was MT for a few differant guilds, being class leader for two of them guilds, doing everything but kael and SWP. I don't find tanking a challange, it's simple for me. One guild I was the off tank, slam/ms, and fury warrior.

Amazing. Yet in another thread you post:

Alvaro Cool Cork wrote: »

Arms is the best for leveling, fury is the best for end game.

Arms is less gear dependant. Fury is heavily dependant on gear, you need to stack a lot of hit.

Don't get rend

Nice

Ivan

Guys, getting horribly close to abusive here. I dont mind a tough love/thorough re-education approach as it seemed to work for Anti

...but please remember where the line is.

Only things I will say to you Iamxavier, time played does not equate skill and some of your opinions are somewhat archaic.

papajimsmooth

Back on topic i have DK tank which i find quiet fun to tank with and am currently leveling a warrior(spell reflect is the coolest spell in the game imo) with the intention of being a tank. Are warriors as good as the rest with the recent changes or am i just wasting my time.
Also is there much of a difference in the mechanics of warrior tanking compared to Dk tanking as i find it quiet easy. Thanks guys.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Yet I am in an end game raiding, well respected 4 year old guild as a tank... I have been tanking for as long as I remember, never get any complaints. Because I go against the grain people seem to think that I cannot tank. Pretty pathetic. Speccing the same crap, after kungen or some other lame spec is pretty noobish.

What raid have you gone to that does not have another tank other than a warrior. Your guild needs to recruit and sort itself out if that's the case.

I rather spec into other more essential talents other than the likes of thunderclap. Never specced into rend or thunderclap, never will... will still tank fine, tps is fine, never have any problems with aggro. Clearly, my skill is quite good. I know this and I will be cocky about it too.

Ivan, what exactly is "old fashioned" about my points? Which ones?

Dustaz, what's wrong with puncture?

Ivan

papajimsmooth wrote: »

Back on topic i have DK tank which i find quiet fun to tank with and am currently leveling a warrior(spell reflect is the coolest spell in the game imo) with the intention of being a tank. Are warriors as good as the rest with the recent changes or am i just wasting my time.
Also is there much of a difference in the mechanics of warrior tanking compared to Dk tanking as i find it quiet easy. Thanks guys.

High end warrior tanking is substantially more difficult than paladin or dk tanking and about on par with druid tanking, but the results are more satisfying as you are quite the tanking machine

But paladins look cooler! :ninja:

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

papajimsmooth wrote: »

Back on topic i have DK tank which i find quiet fun to tank with and am currently leveling a warrior(spell reflect is the coolest spell in the game imo) with the intention of being a tank. Are warriors as good as the rest with the recent changes or am i just wasting my time.
Also is there much of a difference in the mechanics of warrior tanking compared to Dk tanking as i find it quiet easy. Thanks guys.

Warriors, in my opinion, have been and always will be, the best tanks in the game. Definately for boss fights.

Warriors and DK's are completely differant, depending on differant gear and the rotations are completely differant. DK could have a 13 move rotation for just one rotation... O.o

DK's would be a lot better for tanking trash but are also viable for boss fights, I would rather see a warrior tanking a boss though

Ivan

Alvaro Cool Cork wrote: »

Yet I am in an end game raiding, well respected 4 year old guild as a tank... I have been tanking for as long as I remember, never get any complaints. Because I go against the grain people seem to think that I cannot tank. Pretty pathetic. Speccing the same crap, after kungen or some other lame spec is pretty noobish.

No one mentioned kungen, they mentioned tankspot and elitist jerks. The specs (and more often than not there are several) that you find there are posted by people who have checked numbers. Hardcore-ily
Taking this valuable information on board and making an informed decision on tank specs is anything but noobish. Claiming that because someone doesnt go against the grain makes them a noob... well... kinda is.

Alvaro Cool Cork wrote: »

What raid have you gone to that does not have another tank other than a warrior. Your guild needs to recruit and sort itself out if that's the case.

If you are in a 25 man guild, then you have approximately 4-5 tanks needing 3-4 tanks per run. Excluding ferals and albeit the dual spec makes issues alot simpler. However, based on your displayed logic it must be quite common to have to cancel a raid because "you dont have a paladin/dk tank". Alternatively, you could not be as specialist in your warrior spec and therefore be a better tank.

Alvaro Cool Cork wrote: »

I rather spec into other more essential talents other than the likes of thunderclap. Never specced into rend or thunderclap, never will... will still tank fine, tps is fine, never have any problems with aggro. Clearly, my skill is quite good. I know this and I will be cocky about it too.

Tanking nowadays is faceroll. Holding threat fine and have fine tps is one thing, it's a whole different story when you are leaving the AoE tanking to the paladins/dks when your class is quite capable of doing it with a little amount of interaction and skill on your part.

Alvaro Cool Cork wrote: »

Ivan, what exactly is "old fashioned" about my points? Which ones?

Rend is quite viable for arms leveling.
Thunderclap = win
1 minute off shieldwall is not worth 2 points as it's up every boss pull regardless. It was worth it when 2 points got you something like 20 minutes, but as that is no longer the case... relying on a 4 minute shieldwall is the epitome of scrub imho.

Alvaro Cool Cork wrote: »

Warriors, in my opinion, have been and always will be, the best tanks in the game. Definately for boss fights.

Again, an antiquated view point. All of the major advantages given to warriors were steadily nerfed and shared with other classes. Their hp bonuses and shield wall abilities over paladins alone are long gone leaving only their spell reflect ability, which is mostly moot these days as encounters are rarely designed with specific abilities in mind and paladin passive spell avoidance is higher than warriors nowadays.

DK's have better spell avoidance and more reactive defensive buffs again making them more useful than either class for boss tanking.

Druids were always better than warriors for boss tanking but critical hit spikes and crushables made them unreliable and often unwanted as a result. Both of these issues were resolved in Wrath making Druids equally as good if not better than warriors for boss tanking/MT'ing.

Alvaro Cool Cork wrote: »

Warriors and DK's are completely differant, depending on differant gear and the rotations are completely differant. DK could have a 13 move rotation for just one rotation... O.o

The lack of sense-making of this statement is difficult to put into sense-making statements.

Alvaro Cool Cork wrote: »

DK's would be a lot better for tanking trash but are also viable for boss fights, I would rather see a warrior tanking a boss though

See above. Out-of-date and clearly biased input about a question that was never asked from a person who's opinion has been demonstrated to be questionable at best.

Apologies if I'm coming across as harsh, but humility is a requirement on these forums until you prove otherwise with the sense-making

papajimsmooth

Wow Ivan you know your stuff. If you were to roll one class with the intention of pve tanking what would it be?

Ivan

papajimsmooth wrote: »

Wow Ivan you know your stuff. If you were to roll one class with the intention of pve tanking what would it be?

That's a horribly loaded question since I already have a Prot paladin which I love. But thats an incredibly biased opinion tbh.

Paladin for PvE-tanking, Druid for PvE-Healing, Warrior for PvP and DK for chilling around Outlands when I'm bored

But ultimately each class is fun, it really comes down to what playstyle you like.

Warriors are the most physical of classes, they dont have any spells per sé and can appear a little boring and monotonous at first glance. But intercept/charge are a helluva lot of fun

Druids are great tanks but are more ideal for someone who isnt really sure what they want to do at end-game. The ability to change from tank to dps with the one spec (albeit weaker at one or the other than a more specialised spec) and then have the dual spec for healing, means that this class can let you aim for one end-game goal while still trying out every other at end-game.

Paladins are a combination of some of the best and worst bits of warriors combined with a priest and a healthy dose of beefcake 9000 thrown into the mix They lose alot of the very fun tools that warriors have available, in exchange for some fun tools of their own but essentially are equally as viable as any other tank spec and tied for best if not the best AoE tank specialist in the game.

DK's are a strange and mysterious class to me. I'm familiar with alot of their spells/abilities/techniques as you really have to be to arena effectively but unfortunately I've never played the class above level 70 so I'm not a great indicator of what it's like to tank with this class. From what I've seen from my friends, it used to be very difficult but now is alot less so to tank with this class and has the added benefit of being one of the highest tiered arena classes in the game recently (along with paladins :P)

However, you never really specified if you wanted the best pve tank, the most fun pve tank, the most interactive pve tank or the best tank at doing other stuff.
I'll leave which is which to your imagination and then you'll have your choice

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Ivan wrote: »

No one mentioned kungen, they mentioned tankspot and elitist jerks. The specs (and more often than not there are several) that you find there are posted by people who have checked numbers. Hardcore-ily

Read it from time to time, but it is not the wow bible. I have my way of tanking, people don't die, DPS go full out, where's the problem? I know where, that I do not agree with the rest of your points, that my way of tanking actually works. It's sad that people get worked up about this.

Taking this valuable information on board and making an informed decision on tank specs is anything but noobish. Claiming that because someone doesnt go against the grain makes them a noob... well... kinda is.

I didn't claim that anyone was a noob. That word is reserved for children if you ask me. People get annoyed because some tanks don't use the standard tanking spec, they use differant specs that most people cannot use.

I have tried some specs, this is the one I like, I might try another spec with thunderclap and the likes.

If you are in a 25 man guild, then you have approximately 4-5 tanks needing 3-4 tanks per run. Excluding ferals and albeit the dual spec makes issues alot simpler. However, based on your displayed logic it must be quite common to have to cancel a raid because "you dont have a paladin/dk tank". Alternatively, you could not be as specialist in your warrior spec and therefore be a better tank.

We have not yet canceled a raid due to tanks. We have enought of each class.

There are a few specs that warriors can have, due to their roll in a raid. Tanking bosses can have a few specs also, high threat generation or high survivability. Trash tanking, I believe if you need to spec to tank trash proparly, you have a problem with your class... reroll to something you can manage.

Tanking nowadays is faceroll. Holding threat fine and have fine tps is one thing, it's a whole different story when you are leaving the AoE tanking to the paladins/dks when your class is quite capable of doing it with a little amount of interaction and skill on your part.

Do not underestimate tanking. It is not a faceroll... There are rotations, there are procedures.

Rend is quite viable for arms leveling.
Thunderclap = win
1 minute off shieldwall is not worth 2 points as it's up every boss pull regardless. It was worth it when 2 points got you something like 20 minutes, but as that is no longer the case... relying on a 4 minute shieldwall is the epitome of scrub imho.

That's one thing I could change and wouldn't mind too much. Trying thunderclap instead.

Again, an antiquated view point. All of the major advantages given to warriors were steadily nerfed and shared with other classes. Their hp bonuses and shield wall abilities over paladins alone are long gone leaving only their spell reflect ability, which is mostly moot these days as encounters are rarely designed with specific abilities in mind and paladin passive spell avoidance is higher than warriors nowadays.

I played paladin and druid too, paladin was pure boring, and not great for bosses. druids were great for TPS but surv was crap. In other words, hybrids = crap imo.

The lack of sense-making of this statement is difficult to put into sense-making statements.

It's late, I am tired, but you get the gist of it, right?

See above. Out-of-date and clearly biased input about a question that was never asked from a person who's opinion has been demonstrated to be questionable at best.

If you asked me pre 3.1 patch, what was the best over all tanking class, my answer would have been deathknights, really overpowered. You will find that the MT of most guilds will be a warrior.

Apologies if I'm coming across as harsh, but humility is a requirement on these forums until you prove otherwise with the sense-making

I cannot prove to you that my way is the best for all, I know it is best for me. It has worked for me and I have had no problems with the spec or rotation I use. Got a problem with it? Then tough poo...

D

Thanks for all the replies and debate guys.

You do not need improved thunderclap, it's a waste. You do not need incite.

Well I don't just take IT for aoe tanking. Two of the debuffs that I always try to keep up on a target are thunderclap and demoralising shout. The talent means that the incoming dps is lowered even further. As for incite once I have my 5 stacks of sunder up I am tossing in shield slam with heroic strikes as a rage dump. For the most part of an extended fight I feel that the extra damage from incites heroic strike are worth it.

I suggest taking puncture and improved spell reflection.

The only time that I am using devastate is at the start of a fight and when the cooldown needs to be refreshed. So for long fights it is not worth it. Spell reflection isn't worth it either, the best bit is the 4% reduction for the party but I feel there are better talents for the points in pve, really fun in pvp though

You also need to take improved disiplines and concussion blow, this is another interupt at the very least. If your taunt is on CD, along with charge etc etc, if someone pulls aggro, and they will, you can use this to buy you some time..

1 minute off shield wall isn't worth it. Shield wall is for when a boss enrages or the healer has been silenced. A 4 minute cooldown compared to a 5 minute cooldown isn't worth 2 talent points. I agree with concussive blow, it is a great ability. but I already have taunt, throw, charge, intercept, intervene, mocking blow and challenging shout, for emergency aggro. I have this idea of dual speccing a prot pvp build and conc blow will be part of that.

Then take vigilance, this is very handy, I too don't have a problem with aggro. You also need to free up points to take deep wounds.

Vigilance was only useful to me when my gear was still blue/green. I have no problem holding aggro, so vigilance is just not worth it. Also deep wounds, i don't think is worth it as my weapons are all about tanking not dps, I get most of my aggro from my abilities (shield slam)

Keep dodge and parry at about 25% as they suffer from diminishing returns, you can have as much block as you want, but you are better with stamina.

Anti is talking about TBC, do NOT ignore parry. You need this, and it is very important.

Thanks didn't know that.
Cruelty is my dump talent, if thinks need to be tinkered with it is the first one to go.

Also I really like how warriors play, I have played a little bit of pally but I just miss my charge so much.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

I don't find myself using vigilance all that much, but there are times when you will pug and there will be a SP with full ulduar gear, comming to help you or because he is bored or he needs that last really good trinket. You will find it helps.

Cruelty can be good to gain threat too, but not essential.

Dustaz

Couldnt agree more with Ivan and D's points. Just gonna pick you up on one thing here:

Alvaro Cool Cork wrote: »

Do not underestimate tanking. It is not a faceroll... There are rotations, there are procedures.

Oh please, get off the high horse. Threat issues are non-existant anymore amd apart from the a few certain fights there really isnt any rotations or procedures that anyone cant pick up. Excluding Ulduar hard modes - Sarth 3d (the old way), Mimiron, and i guess general and Yogg phase 1 are difficult fights for a tank. Pretty much everything else is as straightforward as it is for everyone else in the fight


Puncture is a waste of 2 points that are far better spent elsewhere.

BTW, our guild not only doesnt have a Warrior MT (pally and DK mt,) But only 1 of 4 possible OTs are a warrior (feral, pally, dk, warrior OTs). I know of at least 5 other high end guilds on our server that dont have a warr MT.