Help with warrior tank please.

Anti

I kinda agree with both sides of this arguement.

I agree that there is no need to use one of kungens or ciderhelms builds, i personally dont like them that much to be honest and find my own spec suits me and my play style much better.

Yes there is a rotation for warrior tanks, well there are many i guess.

No warrior tanking is not just a faceroll, there is "some" skill involved in it. But it is stupidly boring these days, i even gave up tanking on it a few weeks after ulduar landed and started on my priest.

But yeah i agree with dustaz there is no need to even have a warrior MT in a guild tbh, they bring nothing much more then a stam boost, which when raid buffed is **** all anyway. If your missing the sunders just have an arms warrior or fury warrior stick them on.

Blizz has changed the tankign classes now so there is no significant reason to have one type of tank over another in any type of encounter, personally my paladin will be the next one i gear up for tanking, as they just look immense fun and alot more usefull in a tight scrape.

Karl Hungus

Ok, I'm very late chiming in on this, and it's been a funny read so far. I'd like to chime in on 2 things though.

Alvaro Cool Cork wrote: »

Incite is not needed, impale is though. Using them both with thunderclap is viable but not essential to tank.

If you're taking impale, but not incite, you're doing something very very wrong indeed. One talent increases your crit chance on some of your main abilities by 15%, and the other increases the damage of those crits. The two work together perfectly. Taking Impale without incite is like saying, you need to take this talent to increase your armor, but you don't actually need any armor. As far as Thunderclap goes, why are you only thinking about the damage? It applies a debuff that reduces attack speed (and therefor the incoming damage you're taking), and improved Thunderclap also increases the effectiveness of that debuff.

Alvaro Cool Cork wrote:

I suggest taking puncture

*facepalm*

Ivan wrote: »

1 minute off shieldwall is not worth 2 points as it's up every boss pull regardless. It was worth it when 2 points got you something like 20 minutes, but as that is no longer the case... relying on a 4 minute shieldwall is the epitome of scrub imho.

Now there's an outdated idea.

Pre-3.1 Imp Disc. was wasted points, but that's not really true any more.

In 3.1 the Glyph of Shield Wall was added. If you have this glyph, then 2 points in improved disciplines becomes very worthwhile, because you then have shield wall on a 2 minute cooldown. It's far greater utility at the cost of some mitigation. We've also got the new and improved Glyph of Last Stand, which will also reduce your Last Stand ability to a 2 minute cooldown. Both together just gives you great cooldown utility, rather than having simply 2 panic buttons.

Think, popping a shield wall or last stand every time Hodir gains frozen blows.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Dustaz wrote: »

Couldnt agree more with Ivan and D's points. Just gonna pick you up on one thing here:



Oh please, get off the high horse. Threat issues are non-existant anymore amd apart from the a few certain fights there really isnt any rotations or procedures that anyone cant pick up. Excluding Ulduar hard modes - Sarth 3d (the old way), Mimiron, and i guess general and Yogg phase 1 are difficult fights for a tank. Pretty much everything else is as straightforward as it is for everyone else in the fight


Puncture is a waste of 2 points that are far better spent elsewhere.

BTW, our guild not only doesnt have a Warrior MT (pally and DK mt,) But only 1 of 4 possible OTs are a warrior (feral, pally, dk, warrior OTs). I know of at least 5 other high end guilds on our server that dont have a warr MT.

Your way is the only way, right? Who is on the high horse really? It's you...

Your kind of attitude ruins the game for most. Unfortunately we just have to grin and bear it. I won't take any advice from you as you don't seem to have any idea about what you are talking about. You cannot seem to get over that I tank perfectly well without the tardproof cookie cutter spec... Actually, I tank better than that... I don't know another tank that's as good as me.

Karl Hungus wrote: »

Ok, I'm very late chiming in on this, and it's been a funny read so far. I'd like to chime in on 2 things though.



If you're taking impale, but not incite, you're doing something very very wrong indeed. One talent increases your crit chance on some of your main abilities by 15%, and the other increases the damage of those crits. The two work together perfectly. Taking Impale without incite is like saying, you need to take this talent to increase your armor, but you don't actually need any armor. As far as Thunderclap goes, why are you only thinking about the damage? It applies a debuff that reduces attack speed (and therefor the incoming damage you're taking), and improved Thunderclap also increases the effectiveness of that debuff.

Never mentioned anything about the damage...

I rather put my points into something that I find better for the way I tank, everyone has a tanking style. I see some people with cookie cutter specs that cannot tank for crap.

Just because I don't use what YOU think is the best, doesn't mean anything. I have an opinion on tanking, it works for ME, I couldn't give a damn if you prove or disprove anything, my tanking is perfect. Never had a problem with it, none of my group members had a problem with it, my guild doesn't have a problem with it. The only people I know that seems to have a problem with it is people that have not seen me tank, those who use text book rules... Pfft... I am begining to think that ye don't know too much about it. Afraid to try new things, unable to tank proparly without using the basic, boring specs... :rolleyes:

*facepalm*

:rolleyes:

Anti

Take puncture.... lol wot?

you would only ever need that if you were extremly rage starved, and if yoru rage starved at end game something is massivly wrong. Xavier, i do 100% agree with you on the whole cookie cutter spec, ive been argueing with people here for months about the spec i use. But it suits me perfectly, i dont die, the dps and healers dont die and the bosses go down. I see no problem.

12/5/54 and standing proud

nix

Alvaro Cool Cork wrote: »

Your way is the only way, right? Who is on the high horse really? It's you...

Your kind of attitude ruins the game for most. Unfortunately we just have to grin and bear it. I won't take any advice from you as you don't seem to have any idea about what you are talking about. You cannot seem to get over that I tank perfectly well without the tardproof cookie cutter spec... Actually, I tank better than that... I don't know another tank that's as good as me.





:rolleyes:

I'm gonna back Xav up on this, theres more than one spec peeps so just give up the senseless arguing.

Kinda reminds me of TBC with my rogue, the CL always complained of "my weak mutilate build" saying i was stupid to use it over the cookie cutter combat build. My rogue was mainly for pvp so when i was raiding i was in mostly pvp gear but enough hit gear on to hit the required quota. Anyway to cut this shorter i topped the damage meter on every fight with my weak mutilate build with weaker gear than the majority. And these werent no crap players, they now play in the top alli guild on my server with yogg down and all

Karl Hungus

Alvaro Cool Cork wrote: »

Never mentioned anything about the damage...

I rather put my points into something that I find better for the way I tank, everyone has a tanking style. I see some people with cookie cutter specs that cannot tank for crap.

Just because I don't use what YOU think is the best, doesn't mean anything. I have an opinion on tanking, it works for ME, I couldn't give a damn if you prove or disprove anything, my tanking is perfect. Never had a problem with it, none of my group members had a problem with it, my guild doesn't have a problem with it. The only people I know that seems to have a problem with it is people that have not seen me tank, those who use text book rules... Pfft... I am begining to think that ye don't know too much about it. Afraid to try new things, unable to tank proparly without using the basic, boring specs... :rolleyes:

That's completely side-stepping the point. You're simply throwing an accusation back at me, and I will tell you that you're completely off the mark too. There's a lot of ways to do things, and I think if you actually read my reply to Ivan there, about how Imp. Disc is now a worthwhile talent, then you'd see that I'm not adhering to any cookie cutter specs or thinking that there's any one way to do things. There is indeed a lot of different ways to do things, yet there are also pit falls where talent points are completely wasted and you're not performing as well as you could.

But what you've done here is, got defensive and pretty much said "Yeah, well you're probably crap anyway!" and earlier in this thread you were dictating to others about what talents are wasted points, so I don't think you really should be getting defensive if you reserve the right to scrutinize others and get your back up when others find fault with your spec.

If you're convinced that Impale and Deep Wounds are necessary but that Incite isn't, then you can explain the logic behind that without resorting to insinuating other people are bad tanks.

Oh, and just curious, this is you is it?

Ivan

I dont get this. No one mentioned a particular spec over another except Anti, which Xavier then called out saying that some of the choices were rubbish. Thats what caused the rest of us to get on his case.

Specs are indvidiual and should be decided on an indvidiual basis, but you cant go back now and claim that you wont use a tardproof cookie cutter spec just because people are calling out your talent choices as stupid and not making sense. Especially since you started the criticism train!

Alvaro Cool Cork wrote: »

Your kind of attitude ruins the game for most. Unfortunately we just have to grin and bear it. I won't take any advice from you as you don't seem to have any idea about what you are talking about. You cannot seem to get over that I tank perfectly well without the tardproof cookie cutter spec... Actually, I tank better than that... I don't know another tank that's as good as me.

We're all over the fact that you tank perfectly well, regardless of your spec.. This has been explained by the simple fact that tanking is a million times easier nowadays than it ever has been.

Rather that state once more, for the 5th or so time why you wont listen to reason; how about explaining to the rest of us exactly what we say that doesnt make any sense or that isnt true?

Finally, no one has mentioned cookie cutter specs or any spec for that matter. We are discussing talents at this moment. Well, we are. You seem to prefer to just comment about how we're all noobs for following cookie cutter builds and how you're not listening to us. No one said you cant tank, but you seem to think that us questioning your particular talent choices is us calling you a bad tank.

It doesnt.

And Karl, yes I'm somewhat out of touch with recent 3.1 changes to warriors, especially glyphs. Mostly because it's a long way down the list of characters I actually play - especially as a tank spec, but points noted

Karl Hungus

Ivan wrote: »

And Karl, yes I'm somewhat out of touch with recent 3.1 changes to warriors, especially glyphs. Mostly because it's a long way down the list of characters I actually play - especially as a tank spec, but points noted

Aye, well it's one way of doing things. I know some people don't like the idea of cooldown rotation for a warrior, but for me, you can get far greater utility out of shorter, less powerful cooldowns, than you would out of one that serves only as a panic button. Thinking of the 4-piece T8 bonus, your Shield Block would also be quite powerful, and if you had two trinkets like this and this, you could very nearly string together your cooldowns so that one will be active most of the time.

Mr. CooL ICE

Alvaro Cool Cork wrote: »

I won't take any advice from you as you don't seem to have any idea about what you are talking about.

Please quote him or refer to points he made where he doesn't know what he's talking about.


Also, warrior tanking is in fact faceroll. There are no rotations (except CDs), just move priorities for single target threat (Shield Slam -> Revenge -> Devastate with HS up) with slight variations for multi-mob tanking

Anti

LordChessington wrote: »

Also, warrior tanking is in fact faceroll. There are no rotations (except CDs), just move priorities for single target threat (Shield Slam -> Revenge -> Devastate with HS up) with slight variations for multi-mob tanking

Heh, you think? Can i ask what you play as as yoru main(s) im sure ive seen it before but i cant remember.

Mr. CooL ICE

Anti wrote: »

Heh, you think? Can i ask what you play as as yoru main(s) im sure ive seen it before but i cant remember.

Yes, I do think. You think otherwise?

Unfortunately I switch mains as often as an electrician due to circumstances, but my 80s are my fury+prot warrior, arcane+aoe mage, shadow priest and holy priest (probably my most used)

Anti

LordChessington wrote: »

Yes, I do think. You think otherwise?

Unfortunately I switch mains as often as an electrician due to circumstances, but my 80s are my fury+prot warrior, arcane+aoe mage, shadow priest and holy priest (probably my most used)

While i dont think tanking is the hardest thing in the world, its certainly no faceroll. And without sounding like a bit of a prick with the gear your warrior is in, you are in no posisition to talk about endgame tanking and how "faceroll" it is.

D

Ok thanks for the replies guys, but I never meant this to turn into a discussion (argument) about the right and the wrong way of tanking. I am new to "end game of wow" and not just with a tank but to endgame itself.

Ok as of now I am:
Def capped 540+
25.4k hp
23.7k armour

I have tanked all the HC

I have been OT: OS10; VoA10; and the 4 horsemen in Naxx10. (oh and I hopped in as a MT on Onyxia which was fun as I had never done it.)

Ok now my curiousity has moved from how to tank effectively to what the hell is going on with end-game.
First and foremost I feel that the rate I am doing 10 man raids at is very slow. I don't know the raids that well but watching those youtube videos are great.

With HCs can you only do them once a day? I really don't understand the instance lock feature. If I start a raid with one group can I not do it with another group.

Basically what I am looking for is advise on how to proceed now. I really would like to speed up my progression rate. Tips on how to do this. Also what instances do you think that I am good enough for? Should I start looking for a guild? How do I find a good guild?

Also at the end of a raid, they do a "raid roll" as opposed to a normal roll. What is this? I don't seem to be getting an oppourtunity to get more gear from the instances.

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Defias+Brotherhood&n=V%C3%B3ljin

Mr. CooL ICE

Anti wrote: »

While i dont think tanking is the hardest thing in the world, its certainly no faceroll. And without sounding like a bit of a prick with the gear your warrior is in, you are in no posisition to talk about endgame tanking and how "faceroll" it is.

In no position to say it is faceroll? Why exactly is that?

If it is about my defense stats, then I agree they are screwed up (low SBV+SBR), but that is simply due to being unlucky with drops and the excessively high amount (and competition) of tanks on Bronzebeard. If it is because I'm not fully epicced yet, then remember that its not the size of your e-penis, its how you use it that counts




@D...

Just looking at your armor, there are a few rep things you need to do. First, get the Argent Crusade tabard from the Argent Vanguard in Icecrown (or is it Crystalsong?) and get your AC rep up to reverred. Their head enchant is vital and a big improvement on what you have. Also, get the Sons Of Hodir faction in Storm Peaks unlocked by questing and do their dailies for a few days. The shoulder enchant is also better than your current

Also, the instance lock... If you go to the raid tab of your character screen tab and click 'raid info', you will see a list of instances you are saved to. Heroic dungeons reset at approx 3am CET while raids reset every wednesday. For each list, you will see a raid ID#. Every instance you start saves everyone there to that raid ID, and if someone leaves and another person joins, they will end up being saved to that ID as well. I am unsure of the exact reason for this, but I think it is to stop people from doing instances/raids over and over within a short timeframe to stop them from gearing up too fast.

Raid rolls are when the raid leader rolls between 1-10 or 1-25 (depending on raid size) for items in which anyone can loot, e.g. the bag and satchel from OS. This is so the chat isn't littered with 25 people rolling and in these cases, to make sure someone doesn't win by rolling twice. The winning number, e.g. 12 would usually go to the 12th person in the raid according to the RL's screen, the 12th being the 2nd person in group 3, 18 being the 3rd person in group 4, etc

As for joining guilds... Each guild and server is different. Some guilds post recruitment messages with links to their website on the realm forum, while some servers have their own private message board. Maybe join the recruitment channel and check any messages that are posted there or in trade/general chat that might interest you. Some guilds just say "all classes needed, join now!!11!" which sometimes end up being fail guilds, but others will say "naxx10, OS, EoE cleared, 2 bosses in Ulduar, need more ranged dps and healers for 25 man raids". Use your common sense and reply to messages that show that the guild in question know what they want to recruit

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Karl Hungus wrote: »

Oh, and just curious, this is you is it?

Curiosity killed the cat... yea that's me, why?

I have no problem people telling me that I should go for something differant, or try this etc etc. What I do have a problem with is people going "lol wot" "/facepalm" and other foolish things like that. People also telling me that I do not have the right to tank because I don't use the same spec as that poster.

I cannot prove why my spec is good, why it works better than any other for me. It's impossible. What I can tell you is that when I am tanking nobody dies unless I let it happen. Someone keeps on over aggroing I willl let him die a few times so he know's to cop on.

Ivan wrote: »

I dont get this. No one mentioned a particular spec over another except Anti, which Xavier then called out saying that some of the choices were rubbish. Thats what caused the rest of us to get on his case.

Specs are indvidiual and should be decided on an indvidiual basis, but you cant go back now and claim that you wont use a tardproof cookie cutter spec just because people are calling out your talent choices as stupid and not making sense. Especially since you started the criticism train!



We're all over the fact that you tank perfectly well, regardless of your spec.. This has been explained by the simple fact that tanking is a million times easier nowadays than it ever has been.

Rather that state once more, for the 5th or so time why you wont listen to reason; how about explaining to the rest of us exactly what we say that doesnt make any sense or that isnt true?

Finally, no one has mentioned cookie cutter specs or any spec for that matter. We are discussing talents at this moment. Well, we are. You seem to prefer to just comment about how we're all noobs for following cookie cutter builds and how you're not listening to us. No one said you cant tank, but you seem to think that us questioning your particular talent choices is us calling you a bad tank.

It doesnt.

And Karl, yes I'm somewhat out of touch with recent 3.1 changes to warriors, especially glyphs. Mostly because it's a long way down the list of characters I actually play - especially as a tank spec, but points noted

Sorry, who started the retarded name calling "amagad ur a nooob!!!111one!" crap? It sure wasn't me. Instead of posting proper sentences, people were posting crap like "lol wot" and "/facepalm" etc etc. Don't expect a proper reply to that kind of crap.

Anti wrote: »

Take puncture.... lol wot?

you would only ever need that if you were extremly rage starved, and if yoru rage starved at end game something is massivly wrong. Xavier, i do 100% agree with you on the whole cookie cutter spec, ive been argueing with people here for months about the spec i use. But it suits me perfectly, i dont die, the dps and healers dont die and the bosses go down. I see no problem.

12/5/54 and standing proud

I am not rage starved... my rotations uses a massive amount of rage. I gain massive threat, massive...

LordChessington wrote: »

Please quote him or refer to points he made where he doesn't know what he's talking about.


Also, warrior tanking is in fact faceroll. There are no rotations (except CDs), just move priorities for single target threat (Shield Slam -> Revenge -> Devastate with HS up) with slight variations for multi-mob tanking

You also don't know what you are talking about if you think tanking is faceroll. It's not... maybe the way YOU tank is a faceroll and if it is then you are not tanking right. Smash buttons, whatever buttons are off CD? Now that's something to laugh out loud at.





Get rid of this as soon as you can, Offering of sacrifice. it doesn't help your tanking at all. It is good for PVP or as a panic button. Would suggest getting your block up and your HP up. Remember to keep in mind parry and dodge too

Mr. CooL ICE

Alvaro Cool Cork wrote: »

You also don't know what you are talking about if you think tanking is faceroll. It's not... maybe the way YOU tank is a faceroll and if it is then you are not tanking right. Smash buttons, whatever buttons are off CD? Now that's something to laugh out loud at

Right, now I am rightly confused. My definition of 'faceroll' is that a simple system of button pressing can be used to properly perform a certain function. I can tank without any problems or complaints using my talent build and using my 'faceroll system', so where is the problem? Is my threat priority system 'wrong'?

People, please start elaborating on your criticism instead of using blanketing comments as in the spirit of a debate (and yes, this is a debate. a heated one by the looks of it), it is headwrecking to defend against but certainly doesn't prove or disprove anything


Note: My above threat priority system is not the ONLY one I use. I didn't include keeping thunderclap and demo shout up as I was merely demonstrating the basics of holding aggro

copeyhagen

heres my warr tank (havent played him in a little while) http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Laughing+Skull&n=Copes if ya wanna have a look at gear and builds mate.

mostly use my dk for tanking heroics/raids now. the warr has kinda been shelved.

hunter should hit 80 monday night. then the gear race starts all over again

Anti

One thing i am noticing, is you guys (Xav and LC) both say you dont have any threat problems in that gear. Are the rest of your guilds dpsers at the same gear level you two are, or are they in full 25man and ulduar gear? The reason i ask, is that in that gear i doubt i would not be able to hold the aggro from alot of dpsers. Out of curiousity what are your rotations, and what type of tps do you hold on boss fights, single target ?

Dustaz

Alvaro Cool Cork wrote: »

Your way is the only way, right? Who is on the high horse really? It's you...

Im not sure what this relates to but i think its about the MT issue.

You said

You will find that the MT of most guilds will be a warrior

I said many guilds dont have one. Meaning that you are wrong. Its not a case of my way. its the way of wow these days.

I won't take any advice from you as you don't seem to have any idea about what you are talking about.

Well I've tanked the Occulus and Halls of Lightning which is more than you have. I can provide you with some tips there if you wish. Thats on my alt btw.

Nowhere in this thread have i called into question your ability as a tank. You just seem to have some very strange talent choices. You also contradict yourself badly, such as:

my tanking is perfect. Never had a problem with it

my rotations uses a massive amount of rage. I gain massive threat, massive...

Then you say:

Someone keeps on over aggroing I willl let him die a few times so he know's to cop on.

Er, how is anyone overaggroing you if your perfect tanking gains such massive threat? Like I've said before on this thread, there is no issue with threat anymore on non-gimmick fights. Its not your amazing rotation that is generating huge threat, its the changes they made to defensive stance abilities for WotLK. Threat is a pretty much a non-issue for anyone with any notion on how to play. If you have people overagrroing you on fights that dont involve aggro wipes then you really do have an issue.

There are some fights in WotLK which are aggro sensitive and on my main (fire mage), I really do notice the difference in tanks. On a fight like general vezax particularly where mages can do between 8-9k dps in bursts, any variation in threat generation is noticed. Vigilance would be an absolute essential on this for example and the points youd gain from dropping puncture really would help elsewhere. I notice that you haven't done a 3 minute patchwerk yet. This sort of suggests that the dps you are tanking with arent really up to scratch. I'd suggest you have a look at that first before making any further judgements on your threat.

Pfft... I am begining to think that ye don't know too much about it. Afraid to try new things, unable to tank proparly without using the basic, boring specs... :rolleyes:

Well the thing about the basic boring specs is that they work. Thats why people use them.
Lord chessington is bang on about rotations. Thats pretty much exactly what i faceroll when im tanking and guess what? It works, it generates threat and all is fine. Again, Thats on my alt which is slightly short of the yogg saron mark but has been fine thru all the original LK raid content.



Oh btw

Tanking in Ulduar at the moment, first 7 bosses down in 25 man

Armory says "not even close"

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

LordChessington wrote: »

Right, now I am rightly confused. My definition of 'faceroll' is that a simple system of button pressing can be used to properly perform a certain function. I can tank without any problems or complaints using my talent build and using my 'faceroll system', so where is the problem? Is my threat priority system 'wrong'?

People, please start elaborating on your criticism instead of using blanketing comments as in the spirit of a debate (and yes, this is a debate. a heated one by the looks of it), it is headwrecking to defend against but certainly doesn't prove or disprove anything


Note: My above threat priority system is not the ONLY one I use. I didn't include keeping thunderclap and demo shout up as I was merely demonstrating the basics of holding aggro

Face roll is bashing the buttons randomly...

Anti wrote: »

One thing i am noticing, is you guys (Xav and LC) both say you dont have any threat problems in that gear. Are the rest of your guilds dpsers at the same gear level you two are, or are they in full 25man and ulduar gear? The reason i ask, is that in that gear i doubt i would not be able to hold the aggro from alot of dpsers. Out of curiousity what are your rotations, and what type of tps do you hold on boss fights, single target ?

My gear is perfect for ulduar 25 man heroic. Perfect. I don't look at my TPS too often, yet the other day I had about 8K TPS with my rotation. I forget what boss it was though. Average of about 6K TPS. My rotation involves a lot of heroic strikes (now people will bitch about my spec and why I don't have imp heroic strike). First move is always shield slam, followed by revenge, while slam is off cooldown I use devistate. Keeping shield block up. Using thunderclap and shockwave when everything else is on CD.

Dustaz wrote: »

Im not sure what this relates to but i think its about the MT issue.

You said

I said many guilds dont have one. Meaning that you are wrong. Its not a case of my way. its the way of wow these days.



Well I've tanked the Occulus and Halls of Lightning which is more than you have. I can provide you with some tips there if you wish. Thats on my alt btw.

I am sure you will get a blue peter badge for that soon enough. I haven't even been in the occulus, no need, rarely been to HOS and HOL as there is no need... what's your point?

Nowhere in this thread have i called into question your ability as a tank.

Yes you have.

Er, how is anyone overaggroing you if your perfect tanking gains such massive threat? Like I've said before on this thread, there is no issue with threat anymore on non-gimmick fights. Its not your amazing rotation that is generating huge threat, its the changes they made to defensive stance abilities for WotLK. Threat is a pretty much a non-issue for anyone with any notion on how to play. If you have people overagrroing you on fights that dont involve aggro wipes then you really do have an issue.

I am begining to wonder if you actually tank or not... Considering no encounter is going to give you instant threat. It is possible to over aggro, if it wasn't then that word would not exist. Multiple targets, if the DPS are on the wrong target, what happens? Yes, that's right, they over aggro. So no contradictions at all. Your argument is extremely weak.

There are some fights in WotLK which are aggro sensitive and on my main (fire mage), I really do notice the difference in tanks. On a fight like general vezax particularly where mages can do between 8-9k dps in bursts, any variation in threat generation is noticed. Vigilance would be an absolute essential on this for example and the points youd gain from dropping puncture really would help elsewhere. I notice that you haven't done a 3 minute patchwerk yet. This sort of suggests that the dps you are tanking with arent really up to scratch. I'd suggest you have a look at that first before making any further judgements on your threat.

I miss an achievement, so the dps are rubbish? That's just pure rubbish...

Well the thing about the basic boring specs is that they work. Thats why people use them.
Lord chessington is bang on about rotations. Thats pretty much exactly what i faceroll when im tanking and guess what? It works, it generates threat and all is fine. Again, Thats on my alt which is slightly short of the yogg saron mark but has been fine thru all the original LK raid content.

Faceroll = very very lame.

Oh btw

Armory says "not even close"

My guild have done the first seven bosses, I have done the first three. It will hopefully be 8 by next week.

Anti

Xav. That gear you have is not really acceptable for 25man ulduar to be honest, too many items from heroics, crafted/rep and just not that good enough items for heroic ulduar. Certainly not as main tank. Im not saying its impossible, but its gonna be hard for yoru healers, and i would imagine you do have huge threat problems in that gear. Especially from seriously well geared dpsers who know how to get insane dps.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Anti wrote: »

Xav. That gear you have is not really acceptable for 25man ulduar to be honest, too many items from heroics, crafted/rep and just not that good enough items for heroic ulduar. Certainly not as main tank. Im not saying its impossible, but its gonna be hard for yoru healers, and i would imagine you do have huge threat problems in that gear. Especially from seriously well geared dpsers who know how to get insane dps.

A common misconception which most fall for. Depending on gear etc etc etc is why so many guilds fail. Same in TBC and vanilla, people looking at gear and saying "you can't do this and that" etc etc.

Anti

To a certain point yes, but ulduar 25 is not naxx, not even close. like i said im sure its not impossible, just very very hard !

Ivan

Alvaro Cool Cork wrote: »

A common misconception which most fall for. Depending on gear etc etc etc is why so many guilds fail. Same in TBC and vanilla, people looking at gear and saying "you can't do this and that" etc etc.

This is a common misconception which most fall for. Thinking that without gear you are a good player, just because your guild has progressed somewhat and you got to tag along for the farm raids. People looking at gear and saying "of course i can do this, my gear is perfect for ulduar 25 man heroic and my tanking is perfect. Never had a problem with it. " etc etc.

Karl Hungus

Alvaro Cool Cork wrote: »

Curiosity killed the cat... yea that's me, why?

Because I really can't imagine you're tanking Ulduar with that gear. Especially not on 25 man. Now, we're not talking skill here, this is just about the damage you'd be able to take, and with the damage that Ulduar bosses manage to put out, I just don't believe you can tank it in that gear.

I can't see you taking 2 melee swings in a row from the XT-002, I'd say a single fusion punch from Steelbreaker would knock you out instantly, same with Hodir's frozen blows. Honestly, I just think you're telling porkies, it would be absolutely impossible for you to survive one of Mimiron's plasma blasts wearing that gear, unless you blew all your cooldowns at once.

Alvaro Cool Cork wrote: »

I cannot prove why my spec is good, why it works better than any other for me. It's impossible.

Didn't ask you to prove anything, I asked you to explain the logic, that's a very big difference.

Alvaro Cool Cork wrote: »

What I can tell you is that when I am tanking nobody dies unless I let it happen. Someone keeps on over aggroing I willl let him die a few times so he know's to cop on.

Look mate, that's just bad tanking. And it's arrogance. If you're actually able to keep aggro, then no dps should be able to over-aggro you.

If someone's over-aggroing you, then you push yourself to keep the aggro, because if you don't then you're not doing your job as a tank, and in threat sensitive fights like Hodir or Malygos, your ability to keep aggro depends on the raid surviving. If you're letting people die because you can't hold aggro, and actually believing that they're the problem, you're a horrible tank. You're the only one who needs to cop on.

copeyhagen

not trying to stir **** up or anything like that cuz i havent even set foot in ulduar yet, but your toon http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Executus&cn=Gilenrai&gn=Aur%C3%AB+entuluva

is currently in dps gear and "anvil of titans" and "mirror of truth" dont stack.

just so you know, unless u wear it for the extra ress i dunno?

rob

D

Ok thanks for all the replies and advice so far guys. As of today the red sword finally dropped from UP HC. So my gear is now as good as it gets out side raids.

The only way I can improve is some better gems and rare enchants.

def capped, 28k HP, 24k armour

The only problem I have now is getting into a guild. On my current server there are loads of tanks and any guild I talk to only want mages/rogues/shamans.

I have OT'd: OS VoA and 3 quarters of Naxx.

A guy I was talking with said I should pug to Ulduar for some of the easier Bosses for gear upgrades. What do you guys think that I am geared for? Also I am about to get my rep with Hodir to exalted, in another day. After that what should I be grinding when not doing raids?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Anti wrote: »

To a certain point yes, but ulduar 25 is not naxx, not even close. like i said im sure its not impossible, just very very hard !

I know what ulduar is, I know what it involves it has nothing on Sunwell Plateau

Ivan wrote: »

This is a common misconception which most fall for. Thinking that without gear you are a good player, just because your guild has progressed somewhat and you got to tag along for the farm raids. People looking at gear and saying "of course i can do this, my gear is perfect for ulduar 25 man heroic and my tanking is perfect. Never had a problem with it. " etc etc.

As a player you must depend on gear, yet gear is not everything. I don't tag along to the farming raids, there are no boosts etc etc. I am tanking ulduar, there have been no problems and no complaints.

Karl Hungus wrote: »

Because I really can't imagine you're tanking Ulduar with that gear. Especially not on 25 man. Now, we're not talking skill here, this is just about the damage you'd be able to take, and with the damage that Ulduar bosses manage to put out, I just don't believe you can tank it in that gear.

I can't see you taking 2 melee swings in a row from the XT-002, I'd say a single fusion punch from Steelbreaker would knock you out instantly, same with Hodir's frozen blows. Honestly, I just think you're telling porkies, it would be absolutely impossible for you to survive one of Mimiron's plasma blasts wearing that gear, unless you blew all your cooldowns at once.



Didn't ask you to prove anything, I asked you to explain the logic, that's a very big difference.



Look mate, that's just bad tanking. And it's arrogance. If you're actually able to keep aggro, then no dps should be able to over-aggro you.

If someone's over-aggroing you, then you push yourself to keep the aggro, because if you don't then you're not doing your job as a tank, and in threat sensitive fights like Hodir or Malygos, your ability to keep aggro depends on the raid surviving. If you're letting people die because you can't hold aggro, and actually believing that they're the problem, you're a horrible tank. You're the only one who needs to cop on.

They are the problem, you are one of those people who always blames the tank when you get aggro. It's extremely stupid when DPS over aggro. I pull with heroic throw, mage starts nuking, mage gets aggro, mage is a dumb sh!t that doesn't know how to play his class alongside others. If you can instantly gain aggro of 20K on 5 seperate mobs and nobody aggros if they do their job right then you are talking through your hole.

I don't mind what most of you think, it doesn't bother me. I do, however, feel sorry for some people who are brainwashed when it comes to tanking. Some people really don't have a clue...

copeyhagen wrote: »

not trying to stir **** up or anything like that cuz i havent even set foot in ulduar yet, but your toon http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Executus&cn=Gilenrai&gn=Aur%C3%AB+entuluva

is currently in dps gear and "anvil of titans" and "mirror of truth" dont stack.

just so you know, unless u wear it for the extra ress i dunno?

rob

I do some PVP, I only have about 550ish resiliance. I don't use that crap trinket in PVE. I use loatheb's web...

D wrote: »

Ok thanks for all the replies and advice so far guys. As of today the red sword finally dropped from UP HC. So my gear is now as good as it gets out side raids.

The only way I can improve is some better gems and rare enchants.

def capped, 28k HP, 24k armour

The only problem I have now is getting into a guild. On my current server there are loads of tanks and any guild I talk to only want mages/rogues/shamans.

I have OT'd: OS VoA and 3 quarters of Naxx.

A guy I was talking with said I should pug to Ulduar for some of the easier Bosses for gear upgrades. What do you guys think that I am geared for? Also I am about to get my rep with Hodir to exalted, in another day. After that what should I be grinding when not doing raids?

What factions have you got exalted with?

D

Hodir, wyrmrest, argent.

Edit: I also MT Naxx up to war quarter today.

Edit: Quick question, if I am saved to a 10 man raid, does that mean I am saved for the 25 man version or can I do both in the same week?

copeyhagen

no if ur saved to 10 yu can still go ahead and switch to 25.

if your realm has loads of tanks you should possibly think of switchin to a realm starved of tanks.

laughing skull is constantly looking for tanks in trade.
presumably cuz all the good tanks are off raiding ulduar while all us naxx scrubs stay put in naxx!

@ xavier, yeh had a feeling you used it for the ressilience alright