Ennis Hospital being killed for medicine for profit

jochenstacker

Many hospitals around the country are being deliberately run into the ground to pave the way for US healthcare firms to move in to expand their "medicine for profit" market into Ireland.
More here:
http://www.patientstogether.com/tellMyStory.asp?aid=226
As hospitals are being deliberately underfunded, so they can be classed as "dangerous" and downgraded or closed down.
Meantime private hospitals are being built on the grounds of public hospitals to take up the slack.
At some stage the public healthcare system will be so decrepit that your only choice will be to go private or die.
Sure people will die, but imagine all that lovely money the government will make!
The root of the problem is the fact that when a hospital gets closed down or downgraded a few people will organise a polite protest, but not too loud in case FF hears it.
But if people on €40k plus discover they have to pay a few Euros extra in taxes an uproar goes through the country, the Unions crank up the whine machine, thousands strike, blokade and protest.
Just goes to show that people care more about someone pissing in their soup than the government putting everyone's life at risk for a few bucks and brown envelopes.

dh0661

jochenstacker wrote: »

The root of the problem is the fact that when a hospital gets closed down or downgraded a few people will organise a polite protest, but not too loud in case FF hears it.

I don't give a FCUK what FF think - AFAIK they are the ones that introduced a health leavy many years ago. Other people here will probably know more.

I think it started at 1%, went to 2% & 2.5% depending on income in later years, and has been increased to 4% & 5% in last budget.

How many people have this TAX deducted from their wages/salary each week/month and do not even realise it ?

Big question is

---

where does this money go, some government minister said recently that it was not ring fenced for the department of health. :mad:

Jim Martin

Should this thread be re-named "People being killled for medicine for profit" - i.e. the people who can't afford the medicine?

jochenstacker

Jim Martin wrote: »

Should this thread be re-named "People being killled for medicine for profit" - i.e. the people who can't afford the medicine?

In the future the only way to get free drugs is to become a guniea pig and swallow experimental and untested drugs.
But this thread refers to the slow erosion to the entire health service.
Availability of beds, A&E care, Doctors, Nurses, Hospitals, Ambulances,
Proceedures (surgery, etc...), anything that is available to public patients right now.
FF have copped on that that sh*t costs money, so why bother?
They know that turning up on your doorstep and promising to fix a few potholes will usually do the trick.
Just throw 'em a few kippers and watch them slap their fins together.
And sadly it seems to work.
Which leads me to some disturbing conclusions:
1: People genuinly don't care, had FF bate into them along with religion and will unquestioningly tick the right box on the ballotpaper, no matter what.
2: They are genuinly dumb enough to believe ANY of the bullsh*t their told (sure the government knows best, who am I to question them)
3: That any other party is far worse than FF and should never make it into power.
All those options are deeply disturbing and do not reflect well on the state of the nation.

BLITZ_Molloy

I don't agree with conclusion #3. If you've got a group of bad alternatives then you go with the best of a bad bunch. Not doing anything is just encouraging the general standard to keep sliding.

The reason FF keep getting elected is they all ways promise what they can't deliver. The other parties tend to be (a tiny bit) more honest about what they're going to achieve so nobody votes for them.

The way I see it medical costs are probably going to keep snowballing over the next 50 years to the point where even countries like France that have high taxes are going to struggle to pay for it. It's all going to go private eventually. And then we'll all be ****ed unless we're exceptionally rich.

jochenstacker

Well, point 3 was made a bit tongue in cheek.
People don't vote for the other parties because they're not "experienced".
Hence they don't get in, so they don't get any experience.
So people won't vote for them, instead voting for "tried and tested" FF.
Bit of a Catch 22 there.
The cost of medical care has not only spiraled, but exploded beyond anything that is reasonable or sane.
It's almost as if there is some kind of cartel operating that have the world market cornered and therefore can dictate prices.
But that's just insane, isn't it?

Clareman

Not meaning to turn this into a political debate, but people will always vote for FF because they A) Always did, Always will, C) Don't like the other crowd. Also, FF don't have any set policies, they change with the climate so they can adjust a lot easier than the other parties to change, I would nearly go as far to say that FF main policy is "Win the General Election" and FG's main policy is "Don't let FF win the election".

Now to go back to the Health Problem, the problem with the Health Service in this country is that it is being run by Doctors, Doctors are the best at curing people, but get them to run a business and they mightn't be the best, also, they have managed to negioate a magnificant deal for themselves where they get paid 1 of the highest salaries in the country, for all the fault the US Health System has, the HMO system has drastically reduced the cost of their Healthcare.

Ireland is a small country where the population is drastically opposed to change, they don't want to see anything close or change even if it means an improvement, let’s face it, Ennis hospital is a disgrace, the fact that a hospital won't let visitors in cause they will get sick shows you the quality of the place, but what do you think a 100 year old building with dilapidated buildings and a aging staff is going to be like? The fact of the matter is the hospital should have been closed years ago, the land sold and a new hospital built in a more suitable location, hindsight is 20/20 I know, but there’s plenty of builders that would have built a new hospital in exchange for the existing hospital.

BLITZ_Molloy

They've been cutting funding for the hospital for 20 years so it deteriorated to the point that it had to be shut down.

I'm not that well informed about this kind of thing but from what I gather the new policy will be to have smaller specialised clinics all over the country that try and do a few procedures well instead of hundreds of places doing them badly. This sounds like sense to me. Now maybe decentralising things all over the place will only add to costs. God knows.

I'll be honest when I say everytime I've gone to an emergency room in Ennis I could have gone to Limerick nearly as easily. If they had a little 'extreme' emergency clinic in the town that stabalised people who had a heart attack so they were prepared to go where ever they were treated then I'd be happy enough. Or somewhere they could pump some blood into you if you'd been stabbed. Maybe they can do that just as well with paramedics and an ambulance.

jochenstacker

There is one mantra in the world of medicine:
People don't get better in ambulances!
What Ennis needs at the very least is a good A&E department, any other procedure can be done better elsewhere.
But at least you need an A&E in Ennis.
These "centres of excellency" are based on international studies and hospitals in Ireland will be spaced the same way.
That is ignoring 2 major flaws:
Other countries (let's face it) have better road infrastructure. It wouldn't take more than 2 hours to drive the equivalent distance of Kilkee to Limerick on a busy Friday afternoon on a motorway in a developed country.
And
Other countries have helicopters at their disposal, so even if the main hospital is 100 km away, they can be there to help very quickly.
So Ireland is building a network of hospitals designed to work in a country with 21st century infrastructure, not 1940's.
It's simple:
PEOPLE WILL DIE BECAUSE OF GOVERNMENT STUPIDITY, IGNORANCE AND INCOMPETENCE!
If I lived out near Kilkee I would have to view this plan as a personal attack on my safety and health, no different than being attacked by a mugger.
Letting people die knowingly is nothing short of manslaughter and after the first death, in my opinion Mary Harney is already guilty of manslaughter.
Read here:
http://hse-ireland.blogspot.com/2009/04/my-dying-husband-had-no-to-go-to.html

Jim Martin

for all the fault the US Health System has, [/quote] - just heard on the radio that private health insurance premium for a family with 4 kids in the U.S. costs $13,000 p.a.!

I remember in the UK when you didn't need private health insurance - it was covered very well by the NHS until recent years when that damned Tory woman (Thatcher) wanted us all to go private to line her cronies pockets! (same as with private pensions). Now look at the mess they're in!

jochenstacker

The problem is that the government has copped on to the fact that we all must have certain things.
Cars, heating in our houses, houses, healthcare, childcare, care for the elderly, etc... (you get the idea)
All these things are now being used to screw us for as much money we'll anyhow pay without there being an uprising.
If there are a few casualties along the way, no matter.
It's a worldwide phenomenon, healthcare, pensions, insurance, all scams to bleed you for as much as possible.

eddiehobbs

jochenstacker wrote: »

3: That any other party is far worse than FF and should never make it into power.

I have to say i was actually quite impressed with the policy FG unveiled the other day based on the healthcare system in holland. Fully privatised system with universal access to healthcare regardless of means. They cant do any worse than the crowd that are in there at the moment. What position ennis would have in this system i cant say but i would have more confidence in having a doctor (James Reilly) as minister for health rather than Mary Harney

jochenstacker

An amazing healthcare system in Ireland (along with roads, public transport, sports facilities, etc...) is easily achievable.
The solution is a radical shift in Ireland's taxation system.
All countries that have great facilities do this by taxation.
In Germany you will never see half your money.
Friends of mine, who earn a lot more than me before tax, get less a month than me.
I keep hearing the same argument again and again:
"I'm not going to pay more taxes for the facilities we have unless the improve a lot"
Without tax, the facilities won't improve, so people won't pay.
This way, nothing will ever change.
And you can't expect first rate facilities and infrastructure on a 20% tax rate.
Just aint gonna happen.
What you will get for that is everything privatized and pay per go.
Don't forget: Low taxation in Ireland was achieved through a massive building boom, stamp duty and VRT.
There simply is no country on earth that can achieve first rate facilities through low taxation.
You get what you pay for.

BLITZ_Molloy

Was watching Richard Brutin talking yesterday. They need to get rid of Enda Kenny, and fast. This mans a much more eloquent speaker. I don't mind Enda that much but everybody I speak to seems to absolutely hate him.

There are a lot of negatives to high taxation. I think we could perhaps find a happy medium. Maybe we could find a balance between the US way and the European way. Your going to quash alot of enterpreneurial and creativity by making things that expensive. I'm not all that enthusiastic about throwing so much money at the government because then they'll just be more wasteful with how they spend it. It's not their money. If they don't have quite so much leeway they might actually make some sensible decisions about spending it rather than QUANGOs, massive amounts of administration and FAS holidays. If we get 50pc taxation it'll probably all go into the banks/developers not the health service. While the banks ride us for charges on what money we have left.