Does whiskey age in the bottle?

Nature Boy

As per the title...
I have a 12 year old bottle of whiskey that I bought 2 years ago (unopened). Is it now a 14 year old bottle? Or does it need to be aged under certain conditions?

MediaTank

In a word no. Whisk(e)y does all it's aging in cask - as soon as it's bottled that's it.

doolox

Whiskey gets ita amber colour and much of its flavour from being aged in Oak casks which were originally used to store wine. The tannins from the oak casks is infused in the whiskey over time. Like lagers, older whiskeys cost more because they have to be stored for longer than younger ones.
PADDY whiskey is stored the shortest typicall 5 years and there others stored longer and hence cost more.
Then alcohol content does not change with age but the smoothness and taste does.

the beer revolu

Not only will it not age in the bottle it will deteriorate once the bottle is open. A whiskey writer told me he reckons that it is really only good for about 3 years. Not that it will do you any harm after that!

oblivious

Sorry no Nature Boy, but sound like now might be a good time to try some

Also the is difusion of oxygen through the wood and evaprotion of some alcohol

Dionysus

doolox wrote: »

Whiskey gets ita amber colour and much of its flavour from being aged in Oak casks which were originally used to store wine. The tannins from the oak casks is infused in the whiskey over time. Like lagers, older whiskeys cost more because they have to be stored for longer than younger ones.
PADDY whiskey is stored the shortest typicall 5 years and there others stored longer and hence cost more.
Then alcohol content does not change with age but the smoothness and taste does.

Very interesting about the 'tannings'. I came across a tanner who also received a license to run the local whiskey distillery in Kildare in the sixteenth century. The leather tanner was a very important tradesman in late medieval and early modern Ireland.

Nature Boy

Thanks for that!

The bottle is still not opened. Will it last as long as it's not opened? I bought it originally as a christening present for my nephew thinking it would be nice to have a 30 year old bottle of whiskey with his name on it when he is 18. I probably should have researched it first!

oblivious

Dionysus wrote: »

Very interesting about the 'tannings'. I came across a tanner who also received a license to run the local whiskey distillery in Kildare in the sixteenth century. The leather tanner was a very important tradesman in late medieval and early modern Ireland.

tannis are impoert its also the toasting of the barrel will develop flavor/aroma

rubadub

Nature Boy wrote: »

Thanks for that!

The bottle is still not opened. Will it last as long as it's not opened?

It is fine once left unopened.

I am not sure if many commercial distilleries do it, but many people who distil at home will put oak shavings into the actual bottle so it does in fact age while in the bottle.

Also the is difusion of oxygen through the wood and evaprotion of some alcohol

Yes, and this is one of the reasons aged spirits will cost more. Some of the original spirit is lost through evaporation so it costs them more to make it. Along with storage etc.

the beer revolu

doolox wrote: »

Whiskey gets ita amber colour and much of its flavour from being aged in Oak casks which were originally used to store wine. The tannins from the oak casks is infused in the whiskey over time. Like lagers, older whiskeys cost more because they have to be stored for longer than younger ones.
PADDY whiskey is stored the shortest typicall 5 years and there others stored longer and hence cost more.
Then alcohol content does not change with age but the smoothness and taste does.

Most whisk(e)y casks have not previously contained wine but are either ex Burbon casks or are fresh oak casks which may or may not have their insided charred. Sherry, Port, Madeira or pretty much any other casks are sometimes used to 'finish' whisk(e)ys ie the last part of their wood ageing is done in a special cask (often wine of some sort).

Irish whisky has to be matured for 3 years in wood asaik

Brockagh

Yes, as said above, it does not age once in the bottle. If you open it, it should not change that much, unless there is not much left in the bottle - it has more exposure to oxygen then.

The distillers this side of the pond buy ex-bourbon barrels. Bourbon is put into fresh oak - no spirit has been matured in the barrels before. Once they use it once, they can't use it again by law if it's to be called bourbon.

Those ex-bourbon barrels are brought over here and filled with new spirit. They can be recharred beforehand too. Probably most whiskey in Ireland and Scotland goes into bourbon barrels, because they are much cheaper than the port pipes, sherry butt/puncheon etc.

A hogshead is a barrel that the coopers make from either bourbon or sherry casks. With the bourbon barrels, for example, they add extra staves to increase the volume.

Acutally, in the US, when the spirit is maturing in the barrel, the proportion of alcohol goes up (in the hotter states anyway), while it goes down over here, due to different temperature and conditions.

Some distillers in Ireland and Scotland (very few) use some virgin oak to mature whiskey. A proportion of Jameson Gold, for example, is mautred in virgin oak.

Once they get a barrels over here and fill it with whiskey, they can use it again and again, but the contribution it makes to the whiskey is less and less as it goes from first fill, to second fill, to third fill... Usually third fill is as far as you'd go.

And a lot of whiskey is completely matured in Sherry, Port and other wine casks. These are a lot more expensive than bourbon casks. As mentioned by the beer revolution, a lot of the time whiskey is finished in these casks after being initially matured in ex-bourbon barrels.

All the Jameson range, I think, contains whiskey that has been completely matured in Sherry casks, then mixed with whiskey matured in various other casks. Midleton Very Rare and Powers are completely ex-bourbon cask matured.

You would not be allowed call your product "whiskey" if you put wood shavings into the bottle, or even the cask.

rubadub

Brockagh wrote: »

Acutally, in the US, when the spirit is maturing in the barrel, the proportion of alcohol goes up (in the hotter states anyway), while it goes down over here, due to different temperature and conditions.

Never heard of that before. Most is barrelled at a high % so I would have thought it would always be giving more alcohol off.

the beer revolu wrote: »

Irish whisky has to be matured for 3 years in wood asaik

Brockagh wrote: »

You would not be allowed call your product "whiskey" if you put wood shavings into the bottle, or even the cask.

Has anybody get links to the legal defintions of irish whiskey? I know some distilleries wanted triple distillation to be in the "law", and most do it but some only double distil.

You could have a go ageing your own spirits yourself. I have aged white rums with charred oak.

Some ideas here http://www.homedistiller.org/aging.htm

BeerNut

rubadub wrote: »

Has anybody get links to the legal defintions of irish whiskey?

Irish Whiskey Act 1980, s.1(3).

(€50 is the going rate for a legal search these days, isn't it? Make it a bottle of Green Spot and we'll say no more )

rubadub

Cheers, I always love reading those legal definitions, wonder how they come up with such exact figures like 94.8%. That is very high anyway, esp. for pot stills. The difference in getting 90% and 94.8% is a lot you can see basic figures here

Basically, off a 10% wash
1 = 53%
2 = 80%
3 = 87%
4 = 90%
5 = 92%
6 = 92.6%
7 = 93.3%
8 = 93.8%
9 = 94.2%
10 = 94.4%

That means if you boil up a 10% brew the vapours will be 53% in a pot still. Then if 53% is redistilled the vapours will be 80%, you can see the sharp drop off as you go towards the limit of ~95.6%

BeerNut

rubadub wrote: »

wonder how they come up with such exact figures like 94.8%.

Odd indeed. Though when it was introduced to the Dáil, one deputy was very concerned at the notion of whiskey being 94.8% ABV:

Whiskey would be very potent at that level.

It looks like there was a considerable movement in both the Dáil and Seanad to have the three years amended to five.

Degag

Nature Boy wrote: »

Thanks for that!

The bottle is still not opened. Will it last as long as it's not opened? I bought it originally as a christening present for my nephew thinking it would be nice to have a 30 year old bottle of whiskey with his name on it when he is 18. I probably should have researched it first!

Lol, i don't know if his parents would be very impressed with you buying their son whisky for his christening!

IrishWhiskeyCha

Brockagh is on the ball here.

Another thing to remember is Whiskey's main characteristic (Or distillery profile) comes from the copper pot still used in distillation and it is very hard to duplicate. i.e. the peppery taste of Talisker is unique to Talisker due to the Pot Stills used and eventhough people have measured the potstill they have not been able to reproduce it but that's another story Virtually ever set of pot stills in the world creates a different Raw new make spirit. However it's only whiskey after 3 years in Oak casks. It is still quite tasteless when in new make form but it is the magic and interaction with oak that happens in the cask that really transforms the whiskey.

The raw spirit is usually produced at a vol of over 70% but this is then watered down to an industry standard of 63.5% to be filled into cask (But that is not to say all distilleries will do this). This is seen as the optimum that whiskey will mature in Oak. Then while in cask the whiskey takes on more flavours of te oak and as well as intergrating te flavour profile of the stills.

Irish & Scotch has traditionally always used casks that have been used previously by other wood matured drinks (Mainly sherry & Port etc in the olden days and now Bourbon). It was felt that new oak barrels produced a too sweet & vanilla profile and did not suit our tastes.

However tastes do change and that is why Bourbon is a very popular drink today but Irish & Scotch still do it the time honoured way and I for one am happy that they still do.

oblivious

IrishWhiskeyCha wrote: »

Irish & Scotch has traditionally always used casks that have been used previously by other wood matured drinks (Mainly sherry & Port etc in the olden days and now Bourbon). It was felt that new oak barrels produced a too sweet & vanilla profile and did not suit our tastes.

Bourbon by US law has to use new barrels

IrishWhiskeyCha

oblivious wrote: »

Bourbon by US law has to use new barrels

I know however I was referring to the fact that Irish & Scotch use ex bourbon barrels now for maturing instead of using new wood like the US do. Bourbon barrel use is now the barrel of choice used in Whiskey maturation, due to availability and price, where as before it was sherry barrels. However Sherry production has dropped drastically in the last 30 years and a good sherry cask alone can cost around 200Euro before you put spirit in it :eek:.

In regards to laws. Laws are usually brought in to regulate & protect. The practice of using new wood in Bourbon would of been there before the Law and the Law was then introduced to protect the practice.

This is usually how laws are formed for any traditional practice.

The Law in Ireland only makes reference to wood so technically we could use pine casks :eek: while in Scotland the law makes reference to Oak.

Oak has been the wood of choice over the century's because it is the best over all wood for the job, a tight grain to hold in the whiskey but which was also plentiful. This practice would have evolved through trial and error etc. I sure pine was used back in the early days but found to leach contents too quickly and overly affect the contents due to it's high sap content. These practices may have come from beer or wine makers originally I do not know (nor do I think anybody truly knows) but it's all natural progression that gets us to these standard practices and then they find their way into law.

oblivious

IrishWhiskeyCha wrote: »

However Sherry production has dropped drastically in the last 30 years and a good sherry cask alone can cost around 200Euro before you put spirit in it :eek:.

Dog fish head payed140,000 dollars for barrel made from palo-santo wood (ironwood) its fifteen feet high and ten feet in diameter, and holds nine thousand gallons! An the wood is so dense it can deflect a .38 caliber bullet!

IrishWhiskeyCha

oblivious wrote: »

Dog fish head payed140,000 dollars for barrel made from palo-santo wood (ironwood) its fifteen feet high and ten feet in diameter, and holds nine thousand gallons! An the wood is so dense it can deflect a .38 caliber bullet!

That's pretty impressive :eek:

Not familiar with the name who are they and what are they using it for ... beer, wine, tequila .. .

oblivious

IrishWhiskeyCha wrote: »

That's pretty impressive :eek:

Not familiar with the name who are they and what are they using it for ... beer, wine, tequila .. .

Sorry beer

rubadub

Some places will break up barrels and sell them for ageing at home. This place has chips and barrels.
http://www.brewhaus.com/Oak-Kegs-C101.aspx

If anybody wants a book on micro whiskey making which will show how to age at home then this is the no.1 I always saw recommended.

http://www.amazon.com/Making-Pure-Corn-Whiskey-Professional/dp/0968629210/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240927874&sr=8-1

same book with more info here http://www.amphora-society.com/Making-Pure-Corn-Whiskey--by-Ian-Smiley_p_0-2.html

oblivious

rubadub wrote: »

Some places will break up barrels and sell them for ageing at home. This place has chips and barrels.

Chips are ok but a little one dimensional oak, cubes are better but infusion spirals are the nears to the real thing http://www.infusionspiral.com/

rubadub wrote: »

If anybody wants a book on micro whiskey making then this is the no.1 I always saw recommended.

http://www.amazon.com/Making-Pure-Corn-Whiskey-Professional/dp/0968629210/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240927874&sr=8-1

same book with more info here http://www.amphora-society.com/Making-Pure-Corn-Whiskey--by-Ian-Smiley_p_0-2.html

Purely reference material I presume

rubadub

oblivious wrote: »

Purely reference material I presume

but of course

Actually in several countries you are allowed to have and run a still, there are usually restrictions, such as a boiler no more than 5L, so as to keep it to hobbyists. Fully legal is new zealand for personal use. Some places turn a blind eye. I thought Italy allowed a small still but it is not listed here.

It is still a remarkably unexperimented area, many ideas and commercial stills are using copied outdated designs that do work, but can be improved upon a lot. It costs too much to implement a new concept at a commercial scale. And some ideas would not scale up well. I now see a guy I used to be in contact with on a forum has an e-book out
http://www.amphora-society.com/Designing-and-Building-Automatic-Stills--by-Riku_p_0-3.html

Could have a few of my ideas in it, I helped on a few of those topics, as did a group of about 5-10 guys in all, mainly engineers. The "spiral still", went against a lot of guys theories, it was compared to those scientists who proved a bumble bee could not fly!

johnnyskeleton

Nature Boy wrote: »

Thanks for that!

The bottle is still not opened. Will it last as long as it's not opened? I bought it originally as a christening present for my nephew thinking it would be nice to have a 30 year old bottle of whiskey with his name on it when he is 18. I probably should have researched it first!

Bottles that are year stamped are better for this. It would be difficult to tell a 12 year old jameson bought in 2006 from a 12 year old jameson bought in 2008 IMO.