Computer Programming

thebang

Hi all,

I have a biological sciences degree and am looking at several different postgraduate courses.

A skill i would love to develop is a background in computer programming. How hard is this to do outside an academic course? I have heard its boring but it seems like such a valuable skill nowadays and I have a few different applications in mind.

Tom Dunne

It's not hard to do, if you have the interest. I am self-taught, but I did follow it up with an academc qualification (or two). Tbh, you would need some sort of qualification if you want to go looking for a job in that field.

I used to lecture on a post-grad diploma in Computing, aimed at people like you, coming from a non-IT background.

Wompa1

I'd agree that its pretty easy. From my experience its a do or don't...in that some people just get it where as some people just don't. I found it pretty easy and I know a few others in my course did too but then others and even people I work with in IT now just can't cope with it.

Theres good books and online resources that would provide a step by step tutorials for the different languages.Good luck

thebang

I dont want to work in computers per se, but there is somthing i am looking in which it might be useful. besides i think its a skill that will always be valuable, like knowing a different language. I saw some open courses from mit on youtube might they be a good place to start?

Royale with Cheese

You could do the UCD post grad diploma in Computer Science, it's quite progamming centric, unlike the DCU one.

Only problem is they didn't run the course this year as there were not enough people interested in doing it.

stopped_clock

You could also ask yourself what problems you want to solve through programming, and which language you want to learn. Some are better suited to learning than others; some are better suited to particular kinds of problem solving.

It's quite easy to get the basics of how programming works (as above if you have the inclination and interest), less so to become 'professionally' proficient in a 'proper' language.

I've held the view for a while that programming is best learnt outside of an academic environment. It's best learnt by doing, by solving a particular problem and by learning from the examples of others, rather than in a lecture hall (even a computer lab).

One way in is to have a play with VBA macros within Excel. While not 'true programming', it's not a bad introduction to the coding process, and since you don't want to work in ITmay be the kind of extra skill that's most valued (depending on the industry).

As for YouTube videos, sure have a look and see if they make sense to you, but I wouldn't spend too much time on them. I'd repeat my point about learning by doing - you need to practice to learn.

thebang

Strange that, I heard its quite a good course!

Knifey_Spoony

Royale with Cheese, I emailed the admissions office in UCD about that course last year, and was told it was cancelled.
I got in touch with them again a couple of weeks ago, and they said they are very optimistic it will go ahead this year, as there has been a huge amount of interest in it.

Tom Dunne wrote: »

It's not hard to do, if you have the interest. I am self-taught, but I did follow it up with an academc qualification (or two). Tbh, you would need some sort of qualification if you want to go looking for a job in that field.

I used to lecture on a post-grad diploma in Computing, aimed at people like you, coming from a non-IT background.

Tom Dunne...if you don't mind me asking...was that the H. Dip in IT course in NUI Maynooth?
I'm considering applying for that course this Sept...so I'd be interested in hearing about it, if that's the course you lectured in.

Tom Dunne

thebang wrote: »

I saw some open courses from mit on youtube might they be a good place to start?

While they wouldn't hurt, personally I prefer the old fashioned method of a good book and learn as you go.

Ah, God be with the days of the type-in listings in computer magazines of old, the only way to learn.

Knifey_Spoony wrote: »

was that the H. Dip in IT course in NUI Maynooth?
I'm considering applying for that course this Sept...so I'd be interested in hearing about it, if that's the course you lectured in.

No, it was the Higher Diploma in Science in Computing in IT Blanchardstown.

AARRRGH

I also agree programming isn't difficult. You just need to be able to think clearly and be comfortable with detail.

You could definitely teach yourself how to program, but having the support of a teacher would be a great help.

stopped_clock

There's an 'Express' version of Microsoft's programming suite, Visual Studio, available as a free download.

pwd

you can also get the full version of it free if your college is registered with the ieee computer society and you become a student member of that.

Royale with Cheese

Knifey_Spoony wrote: »

Royale with Cheese, I emailed the admissions office in UCD about that course last year, and was told it was cancelled.
I got in touch with them again a couple of weeks ago, and they said they are very optimistic it will go ahead this year, as there has been a huge amount of interest in it.

I'm on the DCU course (far better courses than this one around if you want to get into programming) myself this year.

There's a couple of guys on the course that had been accepted into the UCD course but were then told (actually one guy wasn't told, had to figure it out for himself in late August) that the course had been cancelled as they needed a minimum of 8 to run it, and they had 7. Seems very odd to cancel the course when there were plenty of late applications for it.

hobochris

AARRRGH wrote: »

I also agree programming isn't difficult. You just need to be able to think clearly and be comfortable with detail.

You could definitely teach yourself how to program, but having the support of a teacher would be a great help.

+1

programming isn't that hard. there's a lot of concepts to learn, but you'll pick them up quick enough..

Its being a good programmer that is more difficult i.e. being able to apply your knowledge to create an efficient, articulate & robust solution to a problem.

Knifey_Spoony

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

I'm on the DCU course (far better courses than this one around if you want to get into programming) myself this year.

There's a couple of guys on the course that had been accepted into the UCD course but were then told (actually one guy wasn't told, had to figure it out for himself in late August) that the course had been cancelled as they needed a minimum of 8 to run it, and they had 7. Seems very odd to cancel the course when there were plenty of late applications for it.

...do you think the H Dip in IT in NUI Maynooth would be a better course, for a newbie who wants to get into programming?
http://graduatestudies.nuim.ie/prospective/higher_dip/HDipIT.shtml

It falls under the Conversion Scheme, which is why I am keen to choose this one (i.e. cheaper fees).

pisslips

HPC In Trinity, you don't need previous programming experience and it's pretty good, I'm doing it now.

Jesus, there's some serious amount of funding available in bioinformatics and bio-molecular dynamics and nano molecules, nano-bio etc.

Like seriously I doubt it's hard to get funding in that area.

I think it's one of the areas this country and SFI targets.

Red Alert

I'd start off by trying to do a little project using any language you can string together - maybe even something just like a small cataloging program. It would give you a feel for whether you actually like doing it or not.

Other than that, I'm not sure about language. Modern wisdom seems to favour Java, though I'm a bigger fan of learning a pure 'compiled' procedural language like C, and then/also a scripting language like Python.

Personally though if you've any aptitude for it, I'd say go ahead. I'd probably have done Computer Science if I'd known how much I was going to like programming when I did EE.

Luca1

Tom Dunne wrote: »

While they wouldn't hurt, personally I prefer the old fashioned method of a good book and learn as you go.

Ah, God be with the days of the type-in listings in computer magazines of old, the only way to learn.



No, it was the Higher Diploma in Science in Computing in IT Blanchardstown.

Tom-

Would you reccommend the course in Blanchardstown?
I believe that you only need to attend classes one saturday per month.

Any info would be appreciated

Tom Dunne

Luca1 wrote: »

Tom-

Would you reccommend the course in Blanchardstown?
I believe that you only need to attend classes one saturday per month.

Any info would be appreciated

I could be accused of being biased here, since I used to work there, but, I would recommend it, based on the following criteria:

• the other staff are damn good and know their stuff, no messers.
• the course is a solid, broad introduction for those with a qualification in another discipline
• the notes are good, the online support is good (all courses in ITB utilise Moodle - pretty much essential for things such as scheduling, acting as a notes repository, communications medium, and so on)
• the course also requires a project at the end of it to put into use the concepts learned
• it's also flexible in terms of the Saturday morning classes, approx. once a month - no need to attend classes during the week. For some, that is a big plus, but I can't emphasise enough, it doesn't suit every one.

ITB, since it is a relatively new college, has some of the best facilities available also.

Luca1

Tom Dunne wrote: »

I could be accused of being biased here, since I used to work there, but, I would recommend it, based on the following criteria:

• the other staff are damn good and know their stuff, no messers.
• the course is a solid, broad introduction for those with a qualification in another discipline
• the notes are good, the online support is good (all courses in ITB utilise Moodle - pretty much essential for things such as scheduling, acting as a notes repository, communications medium, and so on)
• the course also requires a project at the end of it to put into use the concepts learned
• it's also flexible in terms of the Saturday morning classes, approx. once a month - no need to attend classes during the week. For some, that is a big plus, but I can't emphasise enough, it doesn't suit every one.

ITB, since it is a relatively new college, has some of the best facilities available also.

Tom-

Thanks very much for the info.

My undergrad degree is in Business with Information System Management. Because this was more business oriented than technical (no programming or practical database work), I am looking to do further study with more technical content.

Is there an emphasis on programming/databases etc. on this course?

I am currently working as an IT analyst for a multinational. My main functions include System Admin, Requirements Gathering and Analysis, Validation etc. on a Manufacturing Execution System written in ASP.net with Oracle 9i Database backend. I work along side a contract developer, who builds on my requirements. I am also the site Sharepoint admin. I would really like to compliment my admin/analyst skills with some programming and web development training.

Do you think the ITB post grad might be a good choice to fill this gap in my education?

The other course I looked at was MSc Software Engineering with Database Technologies in NUI Galway http://www.it.nuigalway.ie/mscsed/. It is 100% online delivered
Any thoughts on this one?

Again, thanks for your feedback and apologies for the long post, but as a former lecturer on the HDIP in ITB I value your suggestions.

Rgds--

Tom Dunne

Luca1 wrote: »

Is there an emphasis on programming/databases etc. on this course?

While I wouldn't say there is an emphasis on them, they are covered quite well. The prospectus is here (note: it's a PDF, page 59, course code BN509).

Luca1 wrote: »

Do you think the ITB post grad might be a good choice to fill this gap in my education?

I am wondering if it would be too broad for you. Have a look at the prospectus and see what you think. Having said that, I know most of the students on the course were working in IT, despite not having a primary qualification in the subject, so it may be suitable after all.

Luca1 wrote: »

The other course I looked at was MSc Software Engineering with Database Technologies in NUI Galway http://www.it.nuigalway.ie/mscsed/. It is 100% online delivered
Any thoughts on this one?

Of course, an MSc is always more regarded than a Higher Diploma, so that has my attention straight away. Looking at the core modules, it certainly is more database focussed, which, correct me if I am wrong, is more what you are looking for.

Also, the programming modules look more in depth.

If I am honest, I would sway towards the MSc. but, and it's a big but, it's horses for courses really - it all comes down to what suits you.

Have a look over the ITB prospectus and see what you think.

Royale with Cheese

Knifey_Spoony wrote: »

...do you think the H Dip in IT in NUI Maynooth would be a better course, for a newbie who wants to get into programming?
http://graduatestudies.nuim.ie/prospective/higher_dip/HDipIT.shtml

It falls under the Conversion Scheme, which is why I am keen to choose this one (i.e. cheaper fees).

It definitely looks better for programming than the DCU course. Out of 8 modules, we only had 1 pure programming module per semester.

I definitely think they could have moved faster with the programming stuff in semester 1. It was a very basic introduction to object oriented programming and java, but in a one year intensive course I think they could have gone at a faster pace.

This semester we have a data structures & algorithms course which is good enough, I've fallen miles behind in it though so can't tell you for sure exactly what it's like.

There was some (optional) programming in another course, creating e-commerce websites using JSP & SQL. Wrote some bash scripts for another module, that was about it.

As a whole I haven't been particularly impressed with the DCU course. They decided to cut the course from 12 modules to 8, but offering those 8 modules in more depth. This hasn't worked as from what I can tell, most lecturers can't really be bothered adding more material than they had been teaching in previous years. There doesn't seem to be any communication between lecturers either as to what is being taught in each module. There's been some overlap in places, and also false assumptions being made in the data structures & algorithms course as to what our previous experience with java was.

whiz

Hi lads, does anybody know about this course in DIT :

Higher Certificate) in Information Systems and Information Technology (IS/IT) Link : http://www.dit.ie/study/postgraduate/browse/programmes/title,559,en.html


If so, would it be suitable for somebody with a non IT background in doing ? Or is there a better IT converter course out there in the Dublin Region ?