Sunday Business Post Red C Poll tomorrow

johnnyskeleton

The article, if anyone wants to read it:

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=IRELAND-qqqm=news-qqqid=41364-qqqx=1.asp

The poll shows that Libertas is making little impression so far. Support for the Lisbon Treaty remains strong, with the Yes side leading by more than 2:1.

What the?

ynotdu

and the civil war politics just goes on and on and on......................:mad:

might end up with us asking the queen to take us back and apologise for leaving the commonwealth?

lets all just prove that the Irish cant be trusted to rule themselves as the Empire had predicted................

ffs its way beyond party politics at this stage,were are our statesmen?

still the same parish pump politics from our (leaders)

still the same petty thinking from posters here that would prefer the country went under rather than treat it as a national emergency and suspend their party of choice in favour of the best minds available of the 166 td,s for a limited time.

titanic and deckchairs..........

is_that_so

Cliste wrote: »

I don't see any benifit to having FG in government. This is a typical kneejerk reaction by the electorate (Well, the poll answering part of the electorate). FG have not got the policies to change anything, they also don't have the brains in the party to bring about smart change.

It is one or the other in government. This is just another version of the "they're all the same" rant. But unlike the government both themselves and Labour do actually have plans. Whether they are good enough or not is hardly something you should be arguing seeing as you appear to be defending the incumbents' misguided policies which have landed us in this mess. This in turn quite probably explains that kneejerk reaction you are concerned about.

Cliste wrote: »

I don't see how the greens have done bad in government. People have ignored all that they have achieved and are doing the Joe (now broken legged) Duffy worthy rants about the Greens, but if you look at the actual improvements that they have brought (For 6 TD's) and compare it to the motions of 'No Confidence' we see bandied about weekly (By the second largest party) it is clear that people are attacking the wrong people

Contrary to what you might think some of us can get by in life without ever entertaining any opinion of Joe Duffy's.

So on the Greens.

They harangued FF in advance, said they wouldn't go into government with them, then pulled a political stroke that FF would have wet dreams about and since then they have done nothing but make speeches. Gormley in his first six months was effectively a FF minister. Since then all he's done is bleat about things he has no control over. Ryan started well but in the last six months seems to have done nothing but claim credit for any green initiative he can get his hands on. TBH neither they nor the Minister for Vegetables could be risked in any other ministry anyway.

Then there is that schizophrenia where Senator Boyle criticises a government he is part of. Meanwhile the Garda cars follow the boys around on their bikes. And there's the small matter of their integrity, which was always a good vote catcher for them.

So your average non-Green member has more than enough to be irate about. Remember the core vote is not the key thing for the Greens, because they are spread so thinly. Most of the candidates got in on either the last count or some of the later counts via transfers from the FG/Labour voters who probably will not transfer votes to them again.

I can't blame the Greens for their pragmatism but this is the price they pay for it. But credit where it is due they'll have to be pulled by their fingernails from this government. FF would love that level of discipline.

is_that_so

Villain wrote: »

I think you need to see a few more of his performances in the Dail, he is very weak, compare his performances to Gilmore even, I mean come on, the current Government have given him so many chances to perform in the Dail yet he has never really given a true leader performance, the only time he has come close is when he has led everyone to think he had a smoking gun but he never had.

As for bringing FG back to the Largest supported party, at the moment my nephew who is 5 could do that, imo they should be on 40 points they are loosing too many transfer voters to Labour, and re your last question the Taoiseach should lead the state and the Minister for Finance should follow that lead so I think Bruton would make a much better leader and would get more of those floating voters to follow FG rather than Labour

I find Gilmore a windbag, a populist,and he still carries that old Stickie socialist badge but I like some of their policies and I am sure when the time comes I'll look favourably on them as I will do with other parties' policies.

It's not a talent competition. To me a vote is choosing the party that best supports a voter's position on issues. Anything else is as bad as the generational FF/FG/Labour voting.

And as for transfers they are not losing anything to anybody. Labour at most can get 30 seats, assuming they can find enough decent candidates and assuming that their vote holds up. Floating voters usually have room in their hearts for lots of shades.

Grudaire

is_that_so wrote: »

It is one or the other. This is just another version of the "they're all the same" rant. But unlike the government both themselves and Labour do actually have plans. Whether they are good enough or not is hardly something you should be arguing seeing as you appear to be defending the incumbents' misguided policies which have landed us in this mess. This in turn quite probably explains that kneejerk reaction you are concerned about.

Don't get me wrong - FF are as bad, they have better people (who far too often manage to do worse things). My point is that FG don't convince me. They would have walked us blindly into this recession like FF (The election promises are and were equally as crazy).

Of all of the larger parties right now Labour are the only ones that I would trust to help me cross the road.

is_that_so wrote: »

Contrary to what you might think some of us can get by in life without ever entertaining any opinion of Joe Duffy's.

Good to hear (It was meant as an ironic comparison, however a LOT of people do listen to the man, don't overestimate the Irish population)

is_that_so wrote: »

They harangued FF in advance, said they wouldn't go into government with them, then pulled a political stroke that FF would have wet dreams about and since then they have done nothing but make speeches. Gormley in his first six months was effectively a FF minister. Since then all he's done is bleat about thing he has no control over. Ryan started well but in the last six months seems to have done nothing but claim credit for any green initiative he can get his hands on. TBH neither they nor the Minister for Vegetables could be risked in any other ministry anyway.

Since I'm using equally sensationalist language I can't really complain about yours, However:

The Green party have achieved far far more then they would have outside Government. We have Trevor who resigned as the party went into Government - on principle (ie. he kept his word). it is my opinion that any other party leader would have said something along the lines of "that was then - things have changed" and promptly lead them into government. Now please make a list of everything that they have done, and then come back to me with complaints about that list.

is_that_so wrote: »

Then there is that schizophrenia where Senator Boyle criticises a government he is part of. Meanwhile the Garda cars follow the boys around on their bikes. And there's the small matter of their integrity, which was always a good vote catcher for them.

Firstly: The Green Party is unusual as a party - I mean they held a vote about what the party line would be about Lisbon. I think this allows for a bottom up leadership structure rather then the top down structure that exists in other parties. Ok it can seem a bit mad at times, but its the better party structure.

Secondly: Why are they followed by the Garda cars? Is it because they have insisted on having the escort? Lets be honest, it's the rules that are the problem - not the individuals.

is_that_so wrote: »

So your average non-Green voter has more than enough to be irate about. Remember the core vote is not the key thing for the Greens, because they are spread so thinly. Most of the candidates got in on either the last count or some of the later counts via transfers from the FG/Labour voters who probably will not transfer votes to them again.

it remains to be seen - as I have said about kneejerk reactions, I think/hope that once people have looked at the facts about the Green Party, and weigh up the alternatives that they see that the greens are not the bad guys. (I know I keep saying it - but there's 6 of them, they've achieved a lot)

is_that_so

Cliste wrote: »

Good to hear (It was meant as an ironic comparison, however a LOT of people do listen to the man, don't overestimate the Irish population)



Since I'm using equally sensationalist language I can't really complain about yours, However:

The Green party have achieved far far more then they would have outside Government. We have Trevor who resigned as the party went into Government - on principle (ie. he kept his word). it is my opinion that any other party leader would have said something along the lines of "that was then - things have changed" and promptly lead them into government. Now please make a list of everything that they have done, and then come back to me with complaints about that list.



Firstly: The Green Party is unusual as a party - I mean they held a vote about what the party line would be about Lisbon. I think this allows for a bottom up leadership structure rather then the top down structure that exists in other parties. Ok it can seem a bit mad at times, but its the better party structure.

Cliste wrote: »

Secondly: Why are they followed by the Garda cars? Is it because they have insisted on having the escort? Lets be honest, it's the rules that are the problem - not the individuals.

This is to carry the Ministerial papers as well as follow them when they go off on their bikes. Not quite as Green as they seem.

Cliste wrote: »

it remains to be seen - as I have said about kneejerk reactions, I think/hope that once people have looked at the facts about the Green Party, and weigh up the alternatives that they see that the greens are not the bad guys. (I know I keep saying it - but there's 6 of them, they've achieved a lot)

Again I think you are blinkered here and for the life of me I can't see why you can't see the whole resignation for the genius political stroke that it was. If he was really a man of integrity he would have stayed out.

I also think you overlook how we floating voters view the Green party. The word integrity ranked high on that list. I don't deny that they could achieve more in government but the measurement of what exactly they have achieved is the question. I don't see that achievement and I find them particularly self-serving but as I said they are all in. I think they do and will find credit in the Green party but quite probably not with the rest of us.

Grudaire

is_that_so wrote: »

This is to carry the Ministerial papers as well as follow them when they go off on their bikes. Not quite as Green as they seem.

I somehow doubt that it's their choice to be followed by the cars, and until I see proof of them insisting on being followed I'll not believe it (If you have proof to hand do tell me, I end up discussing this a lot - so you'll spread the word to far more than me!)

is_that_so wrote: »

Again I think you are blinkered here and for the life of me I can't see why you can't see the whole resignation for the genius political stroke that it was. If he was really a man of integrity he would have stayed out.

I also think you overlook how we floating voters view the Green party. The word integrity ranked high on that list. I don't deny that they could achieve more in government but the measurement of what exactly they have achieved is the question. I don't see that achievement and I find them particularly self-serving but as I said they are all in. I think they do and will find credit in the Green party but quite probably not with the rest of us.

I see it was playing the system alright - but I think that compromises must be made, and at the end of the day it's not like they took money,

I don't think that you're backing up your claims here at all.

Seth Brundle

Its irrelevant on whether or not its their choice. If the car is indeed carrying their papers then they are effectively using the car

Grudaire

kbannon wrote: »

Its irrelevant on whether or not its their choice. If the car is indeed carrying their papers then they are effectively using the car

If the car follows them - BY LAW - then what do you want from them?

asdasd

If the car follows them - BY LAW - then what do you want from them?

magical flying ministerial papers.

is_that_so

Cliste wrote: »

I see it was playing the system alright - but I think that compromises must be made, and at the end of the day it's not like they took money,

I don't think that you're backing up your claims here at all.

Enough for me not to consider voting for them. Would you have me back up my assertion that FF are utterly inept as well or are you just challenging me due to your own involvement with the party? This is all about perception, in this case mine, and I just don't see the great job they're doing whereas for you all is rosy.

Breezer

Cliste wrote: »

I don't see any benifit to having FG in government.

You're entitled to your opinion.

This is a typical kneejerk reaction by the electorate (Well, the poll answering part of the electorate).

Perhaps. But, if so, the knee has been jerking for quite a long time at this stage.

FG have not got the policies to change anything, they also don't have the brains in the party to bring about smart change.

I'm sorry, what? To give 3 examples:

Almost everyone I've spoken to, regardless of their political views, wants Richard Bruton running finance at the moment. Why? Because he has been consistently right on almost every economic matter for most of the past decade.

While Batt O'Keeffe has got his sums wrong, and Paul Gogarty has ranted, raved, flip flopped, and rolled around on the floor, Brian Hayes has produced a very workable policy on the funding of third level education.

James Reilly, presumably fed up of waiting for Mary Harney to cure cancer through co-location, will later today announce the details of a universal healthcare policy, based on the model that has put the Netherlands' health system in the #1 spot in Europe.

My point is that FG don't convince me. They would have walked us blindly into this recession like FF (The election promises are and were equally as crazy).

To pluck a few random points from the Greens' 2007 manifesto:

http://www.greenparty.ie/en/about/party_archives/election_2007/manifesto_2007

Health - Provide an additional 4000 beds to cut A&E queues. Introduce medical cards for children under 6.

Education - Invest €1 billion in education for the first year of the next Government to front-load educational priorities. Provide 2,400 extra teachers at primary and secondary levels.

Tax - Reduce both VAT rates by 1%.

All the parties were promising the sun, moon and stars in 2007, because they were all being forced to compete with Bertie the fairy godmother.

ynotdu wrote:

and the civil war politics just goes on and on and on......................

Who said anything about the civil war?

still the same petty thinking from posters here that would prefer the country went under rather than treat it as a national emergency and suspend their party of choice in favour of the best minds available of the 166 td,s for a limited time.

I don't think anyone wants the country to go under. I'd be happy to support a unity government if I believed it would help. Who exactly is the government offering up to form part of this unity government? Mary Coughlan? Willie O'Dea? Apparently so, since Brian Cowen is busy sacking anyone in FF with the balls to call a spade a spade. So no, I won't offer the government a cop out. Hold a general election and let the people decide who is best equipped to lead us out of this mess.

ynotdu

Breezer wow how clever you are!

I wont respond to your quote about who said anything about the civil war as if you do not know how FG/FF came to be,i suggest you study history.not My job to teach you.


who says a Govt of national unity would have Brian Cowen as its leader anyway?

Breezer

ynotdu wrote: »

Breezer wow how clever you are!

Why thank you.

I wont respond to your quote about who said anything about the civil war as if you do not know how FG/FF came to be,i suggest you study history.not My job to teach you.

I am well aware of the origins of both parties, thank you very much. I'd like to feel that most supporters of both have now moved beyond the civil war (while being painfully aware that some haven't and never will). My point was that myself and other posters here were discussing modern day policy and strategy, and the only person to mention the civil war was your good self.

who says a Govt of national unity would have Brian Cowen as its leader anyway?

No one said that. I said that he is actively repressing any kind of independent thought within his party, and therefore it's difficult to see who of any quality his party could offer to a government of national unity.

ynotdu

Breezer wrote: »

Why thank you.

I am well aware of the origins of both parties, thank you very much. I'd like to feel that most supporters of both have now moved beyond the civil war (while being painfully aware that some haven't and never will). My point was that myself and other posters here were discussing modern day policy and strategy, and the only person to mention the civil war was your good self.

No one said that. I said that he is actively repressing any kind of independent thought within his party, and therefore it's difficult to see who of any quality his party could offer to a government of national unity.

It is difficult to spot a competant cabinet from all 166 of them.

Breezer

ynotdu wrote: »

It is difficult to spot a competant cabinet from all 166 of them.

So you would agree, then, despite your earlier protestations, that a general election where the people could freely elect a new Dáil would be preferable to a half baked 'government of national unity' comprising elements of this one?

oscarBravo

Villain wrote: »

...Kenny is holding back the party, anyone who has been around here long enough will know how I feel about Bertie but no matter what you say about the man he was likable to the majority of voters and he was able to perform as a leader, Kenny is neither likeable nor can he perform as a leader.

That's a near-perfect summation of why this country has been comprehensively ****ed for years, is completely and utterly ****ed now, and will remain ****ed for the foreseeable future.

Why? Because the electorate take politics almost as seriously as they take Pop Idol.

The leader of the opposition is described as "not likeable" - only, it must be noted, by people who've never met him - and "not a leader" - despite the turnaround in the fortunes of the party since he took over.

If we're holding up Bertie Ahern as the model leader that Fine Gael should be aspiring to, then let's just shut the ****ing country down and have done with it. We have the government we deserve, and we always will.

Maybe Michael Lowry should be FG leader? You can't argue with his popularity. Maybe we should get rid of elections and have a reality TV show, with SMS voting.

Jesus, this country drives me to despair sometimes.

asdasd

Why? Because the electorate take politics almost as seriously as they take Pop Idol.

Nearly every democratic country is like that. Nixon lost against Kennedy because of a sweaty upper lip. Blair is likeable, as is Clinton and Obama. That's democracy.

The smart reason to dislike Kenny is not because he is not likeable but because he is crap. I say this as a neutral. Has kenny come out with good ideas? Fantastic. I dont know about it, did he tell the faithful at an Ard Fheis.

Not good enough. He needs to be on TV every single day. His "turnaround in the fortunes of the party since he took over" is because FF have presided over the biggest economic calamity since independence.

In fact I am pretty sure that Noonan would be better. He would be tearing into the government now, and probably doing something about severing the connection with the Greens. And lobbing no confidence motions around like confetti.

oscarBravo

asdasd wrote: »

Nearly every democratic country is like that. Nixon lost against Kennedy because of a sweaty upper lip. Blair is likeable, as is Clinton and Obama. That's democracy.

Yup. Democracy is a pretty god-awful way to run a country. If only I could think of a better way.

[Kenny] needs to be on TV every single day.

...

[Noonan] would be tearing into the government now, and... lobbing no confidence motions around like confetti.

In both cases, people would be complaining about what annoying, self-aggrandising windbags they are. What's achieved by tearing into the government? Nothing. Our so-called "democracy" is broken; the way it's currently structured, opposition might as well not exist. A parliamentary majority is a short-term dictatorship.

His "turnaround in the fortunes of the party since he took over" is because FF have presided over the biggest economic calamity since independence.

And we, the right-thinking people of this fair republic, will reward FF for their mind-boggling, breathtaking incompetence - why? because FG mightn't be much better.

Like I say, the government we deserve.

asdasd

because FG mightn't be much better.

FG is going to get more seats in the next election. How many more is up to FG.

( I liked noonan by the way, so I may be biased)

Grudaire

First of all I am insulted at the complete sidestepping of the Irish language on each of the Fine Gael websites (mind you they seem to have spent too much time copying the English with their websites:p)

Breezer wrote: »

Almost everyone I've spoken to, regardless of their political views, wants Richard Bruton running finance at the moment. Why? Because he has been consistently right on almost every economic matter for most of the past decade.

I assume that it is this that you are talking about. And I'm sorry but is buying our way out of it really the right idea - until we stop this balance of trade deficit, all that will happen is that the money will trickle away from Ireland.

I am especially weary of using 9.2 billion from the pension fund, and then borrowing even more. I'm not accepting that this is the solution

Breezer wrote: »

While Batt O'Keeffe has got his sums wrong, and Paul Gogarty has ranted, raved, flip flopped, and rolled around on the floor, Brian Hayes has produced a very workable policy on the funding of third level education.

I can't find it (You would think that you might find it here, ach ni feidir)

Breezer wrote: »

James Reilly, presumably fed up of waiting for Mary Harney to cure cancer through co-location, will later today announce the details of a universal healthcare policy, based on the model that has put the Netherlands' health system in the #1 spot in Europe.

I can't argue about an area that I don't really understand (and honestly doesn't interest me in the slightest). I had a quick scan of the 'fair care' pdf (I assume this is the one you are refering to?) and it seems like a good idea. It's a bit pie in the sky though. I just can't see the first step having the slightest impact (Maximise what we have [through effective management]). It would work, but the practicalities of finding, and installing an effective management in the healthcare system is an ideal in my opinion, not realistic

Breezer wrote: »

All the parties were promising the sun, moon and stars in 2007, because they were all being forced to compete with Bertie the fairy godmother..

Fine Gael's Manefesto

I advise you to look at the Taxation policies of both parties (if you think the Greens didn't have a hope of achieving their manefesto, how could Fine Gael possibly achieve it without any tax increases? - the mind boggles)

ynotdu

Breezer wrote: »

So you would agree, then, despite your earlier protestations, that a general election where the people could freely elect a new Dáil would be preferable to a half baked 'government of national unity' comprising elements of this one?

guilty as charged about seeming to be inconsist.
think we need an election like a hole in the head,proably only change twenty individuol tds anyway,and even the new tds would belong to a dynasty.

guess im just totally disalusioned at the lack of talent creativity and statesmenship open to us.no vision.

would only want a govt of national unity for an image abroad that Ireland is making a unified effort(we would still know the truth about them!)

never felt so badly about the dail before,never thought it a good idea until now that the amount of tds should be slashed(thought it was all nice and cosy how relativly easy it is to contact them)

with only a few exceptions they are a disgrace:(

Breezer

Cliste wrote: »

First of all I am insulted at the complete sidestepping of the Irish language on each of the Fine Gael websites (mind you they seem to have spent too much time copying the English with their websites:p)

Bhí leagan Gaeilge de roinnt leathnaigh den seansuíomh le fáil. Nílim in ann iad a aimsiú ar an suíomh nua, is trua a rá. Tá an ceart agat maidir leis an méid sin: is cac é an suíomh. Tá líofacht na teanga ag Enda, dála an scéil

(I'm not sure if posting as Gaelige contravenes any rules, I had a quick look in the charter but may have missed it. Just in case, what I said was there used to an Irish version of certain pages from old website, I admittedly can't find them on the new one, the website in general is crap, Enda speaks Irish, cheeky wink).

I assume that it is this that you are talking about.

I'm talking about many things he has said in the last few years, not least the repeated warnings 5 years or so in advance that the property bubble was unsustainable, for which he was told to shut up and stop talking down the economy.

I can't find it (You would think that you might find it here, ach ni feidir)

http://www.finegael.ie/news/documents/3rdway.pdf. There's already a thread on it, so let's not discuss it here. Once again, yes, the website is awful.

I can't argue about an area that I don't really understand (and honestly doesn't interest me in the slightest). I had a quick scan of the 'fair care' pdf (I assume this is the one you are refering to?) and it seems like a good idea. It's a bit pie in the sky though. I just can't see the first step having the slightest impact (Maximise what we have [through effective management]). It would work, but the practicalities of finding, and installing an effective management in the healthcare system is an ideal in my opinion, not realistic

Healthcare doesn't interest you? Admittedly as a med student I'd have a greater interest than most people, but I would've thought a major shake up of the health service that's going to affect every person in the country might have perked your interest a little. But no matter. TBH I haven't read the document in detail yet; it was only launched today. I know the first step is based on a model used successfully in Northern Ireland in the last few years.

Grudaire

B'fhearr liom dá n-úsáidfidh siad uile a chuid Gaeilge (and not just to try and sneak random laws through!)

I'll be honest in saying that FG irks me because of the way that they do business. They bury any information, and use every second in front of the media getting the 'vote of no confidence' soundbites in. É sin ráite - I don't have a clue how the other shower of feckers have been doing so well, FG is ten times better.

I also have no time for my local FG candidate (Leo Varadkar). I will look into the FG proper front bench though!

As for the Health Service, I'm all in favour of improvements, my lack of interest is because I've managed to avoid it (touch wood) up to now.

ps. I meant to say that I'll not be defending Paul Gogartys actions (at all)

dlofnep

Breezer - Why do FGY attend anti-fees protests, when they support stealth fees through taxes - which has been proven to destroy knowledge economies, as seen in Australia? Is this not a bit hypocritical?

Breezer

dlofnep wrote: »

Breezer - Why do FGY attend anti-fees protests, when they support stealth fees through taxes - which has been proven to destroy knowledge economies, as seen in Australia? Is this not a bit hypocritical?

I don't think there's anything stealthy about their stance. Brian Hayes was very open about the policy when he discussed it in the national media some time ago. The idea is in fact to remove the current stealth tax that is the 'registration fee,' reform the third level sector, and allow students to part fund the system once they are in a position to afford it.

YFG's presence at the protest marches was against what appeared to be, and what may still be, full fees paid upfront, which will block people's access to education.

I'm not going into it any further here, there's already a thread on it.

Just to clarify, I'm not the voice of YFG on these forums. I'm one member. Any opinions I express are my own.

Agent Smith

dlofnep wrote: »

Breezer - Why do FGY attend anti-fees protests, when they support stealth fees through taxes - which has been proven to destroy knowledge economies, as seen in Australia? Is this not a bit hypocritical?

Given the 2 options, Fee's up front or Gradual Education Taxation upon employment from College,

Making people pay fee's upfront WILL block people from going to college/university/3rd level Education

People By and large make more money with a qualification behind them. I find it very hard to believe that someone who showed the capability to go to college didnt, because they would have to pay some extra tax after they graduated.

The "stealth tax" (as you put it) would only apply for people making more then a certain amount per year.


Like Breezer,
I'm not the voice of YFG on these forums. I'm one member. Any opinions I express are my own.

Pride Fighter

dlofnep wrote: »

Breezer - Why do FGY attend anti-fees protests, when they support stealth fees through taxes - which has been proven to destroy knowledge economies, as seen in Australia? Is this not a bit hypocritical?

Add to that they plan to introduce a horrible health system, the Dutch model. Were state hospitals are closed down and everyone forced to go into private. for profit hospitals. Absolutely disgusting policies coming from FG of late.

dlofnep

Breezer wrote: »

I don't think there's anything stealthy about their stance. Brian Hayes was very open about the policy when he discussed it in the national media some time ago. The idea is in fact to remove the current stealth tax that is the 'registration fee,' reform the third level sector, and allow students to part fund the system once they are in a position to afford it.

YFG's presence at the protest marches was against what appeared to be, and what may still be, full fees paid upfront, which will block people's access to education.

What graduate tax is, is Fine Gael's attempt at pretending to create an alternative - But let's be frank. It's the exact same thing. All it does, is delay the bill - But moreover, it creates a brain drain - which is taking high-tax payers and giving them an incentive to go abroad.

And as a result of this - wealth that could be retained in Ireland, will be shipped abroad, not to mention will result in a lack of skilled workers in Ireland. If you want to retain wealth in Ireland, you do not create an environment that will provoke high-tax payers to move abroad.

Fine Gael are, like Fianna Fáil - using student's as scapegoats. The reality of the situation is that Education in Ireland was severely underfunded for years, even in economic boom - One of the lowest in the OECD. Instead of investing in Education - our overpaid TD's were sitting cozy, and still do - while students are faced with the idea of having to either put up with fees for college - or face extra bills after college when they are trying to setup shop.

Graduate tax will kill this country's education. You are offering nothing innovative. It has been done in Australia, and has failed miserably. I still find the idea of you guys attending anti-fees protests to be hilariously hypocritical.

Seth Brundle

Cliste wrote: »

If the car follows them - BY LAW - then what do you want from them?

If they are making use of the car then why bother with the bycicle PR stunt - oh wait.