Sunday Business Post Red C Poll tomorrow

Breezer

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Add to that they plan to introduce a horrible health system, the Dutch model. Were state hospitals are closed down and everyone forced to go into private. for profit hospitals.

That would be the system that has Holland ranked #1 in Europe for quality of healthcare and #2 in terms of value for money?

dlofnep wrote:

All it does, is delay the bill

Thereby removing the bill from parents who may be struggling to put several children through college, or from the penniless student who has to put him/herself though, and shifting it onto the young graduate who is now earning a salary. Please explain how that is that the same thing? This is the pre-existing thread on the subject, by the way.

dlofnep

Breezer wrote: »

Thereby removing the bill from parents who may be struggling to put several children through college

And passing the bill onto a person who's just about to setup a house and home.

Breezer wrote: »

Please explain how that is that the same thing?

Fee, "A fee is the price one pays as remuneration for services". As they are paying to avail of an education, it is still considered a fee. A fee by any other name is still a fee. Education should be funded through general tax - Graduates in most part will be contributing more tax to the economy - so what exactly is it they are getting in return?

I see you've failed to comment on the situation that graduate tax has done in Australia or the fact that education has been grossly underfunded in Ireland, even when we had wealth.

Breezer

dlofnep wrote: »

And passing the bill onto a person who's just about to setup a house and home.

Yes, a person who is starting their career, has many years of earning potential (over and above that of a non-graduate) ahead of them, is in most cases single and childless, and can afford to pay a proportion of their income, over a period of several years, towards recouping part of the benefit that has been imparted to them.

Fee, "A fee is the price one pays as remuneration for services". As they are paying to avail of an education, it is still considered a fee. A fee by any other name is still a fee. Education should be funded through general tax - Graduates in most part will be contributing more tax to the economy - so what exactly is it they are getting in return?

Yes, it's a fee. It's a fairer and better thought-out fee. Education funded through general taxation is also a fee. Somewhere along the line, services have to be paid for. Now, if you'd care to look at the thread I linked to in my last post, you'd discover that in an ideal world I would actually agree with you. But there remains the unfortunate fact that this has been tried and it has not worked. Logic would dictate that when the existing system isn't working, you try something else, and of the options I've seen so far (upfront fees, student loans, and this system) I believe this to be by far the best.

I see you've failed to comment on the situation that graduate tax has done in Australia or the fact that education has been grossly underfunded in Ireland, even when we had wealth.

I'm not Australian and I have no experience of their education system. I do know that in 2008, Australia had 8 universities in the World Top 200, 6 of which ranked above Trinity and all of which ranked above UCD. By all means, enlighten me as to the damage you say has been done though (preferably on that other thread as we've now gone way off the point of this one).

I agree that education has been underfunded in Ireland. I'm not sure what that has to do with FG. But saying 'put more money in' now that the money is gone won't get us anywhere. Kicking the Government who underfunded education out, and putting the party with the most practical policy in will do far more than pointing the finger. Although I suspect were FG simply pointing fingers you'd be accusing them of having no policies.

Grudaire

kbannon wrote: »

If they are making use of the car then why bother with the bycicle PR stunt - oh wait.

Maybe they like cycling

dlofnep

Breezer I responded in the other thread for you.