Disappointed with M&S

nodolan

I was just discussing M&S ready meals on another forum when I took a look at my receipt for today's shopping. I bought some special offer cheese for a friend of mine which was advertised with the UK sticker of 99p.

On my receipt it says that I paid €1.35 for the cheese - according to www.xe.com 99p STG is €1.09 which is a difference of (uses fingers) 26c.

While that not be a huge amount I can't help wondering how much more overall an average basket must be costing the Irish consumer and since I'm a regular shopper there I'm a bit angry at how much extra I've probably being paying over the last couple of years.

:mad:

EoinHeffernan

Higher salaries, taxes, overheads etc. have to be accounted for.

viv2

Ahh no not another sterling versus euro complaint.


Shops dont use xe.com :rolleyes:

nodolan

EoinHeffernan wrote: »

Higher salaries, taxes, overheads etc. have to be accounted for.

I don't accept that argument any more Eoin. There are numerous threads here that prove that we are being charged far in excess of any justifiable amounts. If there was a differential of 20% I'd be unhappy but swallow my pride but when the difference goes up to 50 or even 60% then we need to start asking questions.

The standard answer seems to be that rents, rates, taxes and wages are all higher here but that doesn't really wash when you consider that most of the major UK retailers have stores in the most expensive locations possible in the UK (and some even have stores in much more expensive EU cities). The price difference can be up to 40% higher (or more) and I really can't see how that can be justified. We're still being seen as a cash-cow in this country (and that includes many Irish owned businesses). I can buy my contact lenses from www.aclens.com in the USA for a quarter of the price that they're sold here (including delivery) - and they're made here.

See these threads:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055497563

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055542520
^ 160% difference on some products!!! :eek:

edit: This has been going on for months viv2 (years in some cases) so whether they use xe.com or chicken entrails is irrelevant.

viv2

So why use xe to see what rate stg is at the moment?
It will be different tomorrow and the day after so would you expect a shop to change the prices on a daily basis?????

I really dont see the point of these posts, where exactly have you been ripped off?

Shelflife

And how much did it cost to ship that cheese to ireland from the uk?

nodolan

I won't be replying to any apologist posts (or trolling posts).

Thanks all the same.

viv2

Seriously though why do some of us ''get it'' and others dont?

Ireland is more expensive than other countries....get over it.

You werent ripped off, you paid for something that costs less in another country.....:rolleyes:

Fighting Irish

viv2 wrote: »

Seriously though why do some of us ''get it'' and others dont?

Ireland is more expensive than other countries....get over it.

You werent ripped off, you paid for something that costs less in another country.....:rolleyes:

but but but

darc

I'll moan about debenhams using a 1.55 exchange, but 1.35 whilst a bit on the high side, its not too bad considering the extra costs here.

A fair rate for retailers is 1.25 - 1.30 considering rent is about 40% higher here, wages about 30% and other costs such as rates, utilities etc 20 - 40% higher. Then remember they have chilled shipping to do from the UK.

Don't forget, if you were buying that in the UK for 99p, it would come out of a substantially lower take home salary for the same position you have in Ireland - even if you are not working.

ronaneire

Shelflife wrote: »

And how much did it cost to ship that cheese to ireland from the uk?

+1

nodolan

The issue of shipping costs isn't relevant AFAIK as M&S ships through Dublin to all its stores on this island so the shipping costs to their store in Derry should in theory be even higher and if we were to apply that logic then prices for goods would vary widely according to the distance they travelled (and the awkwardness of the more remote locations).

While I agree that the difference I paid (in this one instance on this one product) isn't a huge amount of money my OP clearly states that I was concerned with the accumulative effects of such disparities.

As these other threads, forums and newspapers report, this is an issue regardless of what apologists might say and whether or not it is M&S or Argos or a series of middle-men suppliers and transporters the net effect is that we here in the RoI are being royally screwed:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055542520

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=97861&page=3

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=97861&page=3

http://www.valueireland.com/tag/marks-and-spencer/

M&S still marking up the euro price

Retailers now resort to hiding sterling price

The fact is that even products manufactured here in the RoI are more expensive, sometimes up to 50% more expensive, than in stores in NI - in one of those threads above the cost of Ballygowan in one store in the RoI is up to three or four times higher than in another store also in the RoI so shipping and other sundry overheads doesn't really explain such massive differences.

I lived in Germany back in 89/90 and noticed the differences in prices back then - that's 20 years ago. I remember doing the exchange rate in my head for the first few weeks and being shocked at the differences for everything from cans of Coca Cola to high end cameras and other electronic goods. Even spectacles were 30-40% dearer here - PLUS - we were paying higher prices for goods that were out of date and we weren't getting the advantages of more modern products (such as unbreakable titanium frames for glasses etc.) and we still aren't. Some stores, here in Cork, are still selling Samsung Series 5 TVs at the same price that they're selling the Series 7 for in the UK.

:mad:

GerardKeating

nodolan wrote: »

I won't be replying to any apologist posts (or trolling posts).

Thanks all the same.

Why start a discussion if you do not plan to listen to other points of view.

You can live with your blinkered view on the topic, but it is a simple fact that

• VAT is higher (21.5 against 15%)
• Min Wage is way higher (not sure of figures)
• ESB
• Rent
• Insurance

Also, all Sterling based stores will have the same price, so Derry/Belfast etc will benefit from the lower cost in the England since they use the same currency.

nodolan

You're beating the same drum over and over again GerardKeating like many others here and I've already addressed what you say and you in turn have failed to address the other points that I've made. If you're happy to pay exorbitant amounts that cannot be justified then go ahead. It has been proven, in the Dail of all places, that suppliers in the RoI are screwing stores who in turn are screwing the consumers. The problem is complex and multifaceted and I've already acknowledged that - which you and others haven't, and regardless of who's to blame (or what, or how many are to blame) it's an issue that needs to be addressed.

darc

A simpler way

Take your net salary after tax.

Compare it worth the net salaryt after tax of someone in the same positiona as you in the UK, Germany, USA & Austrailia.

Work out the net income per minute of work based on standard working week.

The see how many minutes you need to work to earn to cost of the item in M&S in Ireland & How many minutes you need to work to earn the cost of the product in the UK.


In Economics, this is and extension of the Economist magazine's Big Mac index and is seen as a reliable but coarse way of comparing cost of living in various countries. -

the 2006 figures are all I found on the web -

So the average person needs to work the following number of miunutes to earn the price of a big mac. - After tax. Ireland was 9th CHEAPEST in the world! - But this would be too positive for news reports!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Mac_Index

Tokyo 10
Los Angeles 11
Chicago 12
Miami 12
New York 13
Auckland, New Zealand 14
Sydney, Australia 14
Toronto 14
Dublin, Ireland 15
Zurich, Switzerland 15
Frankfurt, Germany 16
Geneva 16
London 16
Vienna, Austria 16
Berlin 17
Hong Kong 17
Luxembourg 17
Montreal 17
Munich, Germany 17
Copenhagen, Denmark 18
Oslo, Norway 18
Amsterdam, Netherlands 19
Helsinki, Finland 19
Madrid, Switzerland 19
Nicosia, Cyprus 19
Brussels, Belgium 20
Milan, Italy 20
Taipei, Taiwan 20
Barcelona, Spain 21
Paris 21
Stockholm, Sweden 21
Singapore 22
Lyon, France 24
Manama, Bahrain 24
Dubai, United Arab Emirates 25
Moscow 25
Rome 25
Athens, Greece 26
Riga, Latvia 28
Seoul, South Korea 29
Johannesburg, South Africa 30
Lisbon, Portugal 32
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia 33
Ljubljana, Slovenia 35
Sao Paulo, Brazil 38
Shanghai, China 38
Prague, Czech Republic 39
Tallinn, Estonia 39
Warsaw, Poland 43
Vilnius, Lithuania 43
Beijing 44
Budapest, Hungary 48
Istanbul, Turkey 48
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil 53
Bratislava, Slovakia 55
Santiago, Chile 56
Kiev, Ukraine 55
Buenos Aires, Argentina 56
New Delhi 59
Bangkok, Thailand 67
Bucharest, Romania 69
Sofia, Bulgaria 69
Bombay, India 70
Manila, Philippines 81
Mexico City 82
Caracas, Venezuela 85
Jakarta, Indonesia 86
Lima, Peru 86
Nairobi, Kenya 91
Bogota, Colombia 97

havana

GerardKeating wrote: »

Why start a discussion if you do not plan to listen to other points of view.

You can live with your blinkered view on the topic, but it is a simple fact that

• VAT is higher (21.5 against 15%)
• Min Wage is way higher (not sure of figures)
• ESB
• Rent
• Insurance

Also, all Sterling based stores will have the same price, so Derry/Belfast etc will benefit from the lower cost in the England since they use the same currency.

Yes but we had those higher costs a couple of years ago before the recent rate changes. And while some have risen slightly eg vat i do not believe they have all risen to an extent to warrent the current price differences.

Thoie

I'd also like to complain that when I convert the English weekly dole amount (£65), it comes out as around €200 here - that's an exchange rate of 3.08, while www.xe.com/ucc tells me that the sterling to euro exchange rate is currently 1.11.

nodolan

Big Macs and dole payments? Whatever! There are answers to those posts as well but since you guys aren't interested in addressing all the other points I've raised and since you want to just act up then there's no point in debating with you. A tactic of those who can't debate properly is often to drag in as many other issues as possible in an attempt to swamp the OP.

Limitations

The burger methodology has limitations in its estimates of the PPP. In many countries, eating at international fast-food chain restaurants such as McDonald's is relatively expensive in comparison to eating at a local restaurant, and the demand for Big Macs is not as large in countries like India as in the United States. Social status of eating at fast food restaurants like McDonald's, local taxes, levels of competition, and import duties on selected items may not be representative of the country's economy as a whole. In addition, there is no theoretical reason why non-tradable goods and services such as property costs should be equal in different countries: this is the theoretical reason for PPPs being different from market exchange rates over time. Nevertheless, economists widely cite the Big Mac Index as a real world measurement of purchasing power parity.


Correction: In the previous version of the table we did not invert the pound and euro exchange rates when calculating the price of a Big Mac in dollars for Britain and the euro area. Our apologies. This was corrected on February 9th 2008.

You'll notice how Ireland no longer has its own entry and instead is lumped in with the whole Euro zone even though the price can differ widely within the EU.

*****************

1. France

Rate of support: Hugely complicated system based on a percentage of a worker's average daily wage in the 12 months prior to unemployment. The jobless are entitled to unemployment payments ranging from 40% to 75% of their earnings, with a ceiling of €6,366.80 a month. Those receiving unemployment support will get another useful once-off bonus of €500 next month, as part of the French government's response to the current downturn.

Minimum wage: €8.71 an hour.

Unemployment rate: 8.2%.

2. Denmark

Rate of support: Maximum of 3,515 kroner (€472) per week.

Minimum wage: No national minimum wage.

Unemployment rate: 2.5%.

3. Germany

Rate of support: Varies depending on your previous after-tax income, with a maximum payment of around €1,800 per month for those with children.

Minimum wage: No national minimum wage, although there are minimum wages in certain occupations.

Unemployment rate: 8.5%.

4. Japan

Rate of support: Varies depending on age and previous salary levels. Someone under 30 can receive a maximum of 6,330 yen (€47) a day, rising to a maximum of 7,730 yen (€58) for those aged 45-60.

Minimum wage: Set by regional committees, but averaged 673 yen (€5) an hour in 2007

Unemployment rate: 4.1% in January 2009.

5. Austria

Rate of support: Ranges from around €242 to €1,329 per month for those without children, and from €340 to €1,419 per month for those with children.

Minimum wage: Depends on occupation; the minimum amount of income needed to qualify for unemployment supports is €357.74 per month.

Unemployment rate: 8.3%.

6. Sweden

Rate of support: Ranges from a maximum of 7,040 kroner (€648) for "basic" insurance to a maximum of 14,960 kroner (€1,377) per month for voluntary loss-of-income insurance scheme.

Minimum wage: No minimum wages prescribed by law. Instead, wages are settled in collective agreements.

Unemployment rate: 8%.

7. Spain

Rate of support: The minimum entitlement per month is €482.44 and the maximum is €1,356.86.

Minimum wage: €624 per month.

Unemployment rate: 14%.

8. Canada

Rate of support: Maximum of $447 (€269) per week.

Minimum wage: Varies by region, the average being $8.26 (€5) per hour.

Unemployment rate: 7.7%.

9. Italy

Rate of support: Those who have worked for two
years get 60% of monthly salary for the first six
months, with reduced amounts after this and up to a maximum of €858 per month, and a max €1,013 for workers who had a monthly salary exceeding €1,857. For those who have not worked for the previous two years, but worked a minimum of 78 days, a reduced support applies, up to a maximum monthly amount of €844. This rises to €1,014 for workers who had a monthly salary of €1,826.

Minimum wage: N/A.

Unemployment rate: 6.7%.

10. Ireland

Rate of support: Jobseeker's benefit and jobseeker's allowance rates are made up of a weekly personal rate of €204.30. The system also provides for increases of €135.60 in relation to spouses or partners, and €26 in relation to qualified children. A single person with no dependents, earning €40,000 a year who has recently been made redundant, living in shared rented accommodation in Dublin and having paid PRSI for five-and-a-half years, could typically expect to receive a total of €288.20 in state supports, including rent supplement and smokeless fuel allowances. Jobseeker's benefit is paid at a maximum rate of €204.30 per week provided that the person's average weekly earnings in the governing tax year (2007) are more than €300. Automatic entitlement to free medical care is generally based on the means-tested medical-card system.

Minimum wage: Currently set at €8.65 an hour, with reduced rates for trainees and those aged under 18.

Unemployment rate: 10.4% in February 2009.

11. Finland

Rate of support: Basic level set at an average of €551 per month for those without children.

Minimum wage: No set national minimum wage – determined via collective agreements in different sectors.

Unemployment rate: 7.6%.

12. New Zealand

Rate of support: Varies from $140.31 (€60) per week for a single person aged 18-19 living at home to $210 (€90) for a 25-year-old single person away from home. $175 (€75) each for couples, and $304 (€129) for a single parent.

Minimum wage: $12.50 (€5.30) an hour (adult rate).

Unemployment rate: 4.6%.

13. Australia

Rate of support: Maximum fortnightly payment of $453.30 (€234) for a single person with no children. This rises to $490.40 (€253) for a single person with a dependent child or children, $496.40 (€257) for a single person aged 60 or over and receiving payment for nine months, and $409 (€211) each if you are a couple.

Minimum wage: $14.31 (€7.40) per hour or $543.78 (€281) per week.

Unemployment rate: 4.9% in February 2009.

14. US

Rate of support: Varies hugely from state to state, with a range of factors taken into account. For example, in New York state, someone on a $40,000 (€29,530) salary could typically expect to receive support of $650 (€480) per month.

Minimum wage: The federal minimum wage is $6.55 (€4.83) per hour. No state is allowed to have a minimum wage that is lower than the federal minimum.

Unemployment rate: 8.1% in February.

15. britain and Northern Ireland

Rate of support: Known as jobseeker's allowance, this ranges from £47.95 (€51) per week for a single person to £94.95 (€101) for a married couple, and is either income- or contribution-based. Healthcare is free at the point of
use in the UK. Prescription contributions are waived once you prove you are in receipt of supports. Support towards rent or lodging is decided by local authorities on individual basis.

Minimum wage: Three levels, ranging from £5.73 (€6.13) per hour for workers aged 22 years and above to £3.53 (€3.77) per hour for workers under the age of 18.

Unemployment rate: 6.5%.

16. Brazil

Rate of support: Set at a maximum of 870 reais (€287) per month.

Minimum wage: 465 (€153) reais a month.

Unemployment rate: 8.2%.

17. South Africa

Rate of support: Jobless are entitled to a percentage of previous salary, depending on income levels, capped at a maximum of 3,077 rand (€241).

Minimum wage: No national minimum wage. Minimum wages fluctuate depending on the profession and between rural and urban parts of the country.

Unemployment rate: 22%.

18. Latvia

Rate of support: Average 147.52LVL (€209) per month.

Minimum wage: 180 LVL (€256) per month.

Unemployment rate: 9.5% in February 2009.

19. Poland

Rate of support: Three different levels of payment, ranging from 441 zlotych per month (€96) to 662 zlotych (€145) per month.

Minimum wage: No hourly rate, but minimum monthly wage is set at 1,276 zlotych (€278) gross.

Unemployment rate: 10.5% in January 2009.

20. Argentina

Rate of support: Ranges from 150 to 300 pesos per month (€30- €60) with certain family allowances in addition.

Minimum wage: N/A.

Unemployment rate: 7.3%.

http://www.tribune.ie/news/home-news/article/2009/apr/05/states-of-grace-dole-payments-around-the-world/

**************

I'm more than able to open this debate to numerous side issues and I'm more than able to take them all on and knock them down when they're just smokescreens and not properly thought through. If people want to be extremely selective in what they use to try to argue with me it only shows a level of dishonesty that doesn't deserve to be entertained.

tv3

If the euro and sterling were to both go in the opposite direction,would you Winge then????

nodolan

tv3 wrote: »

If the euro and sterling were to both go in the opposite direction,would you Winge then????

If you had paid attention in school would you have been able to construct a sensible and worthwhile reply?

(and spelt whinge correctly, or maybe even used whine instead?)

tv3

nodolan wrote: »

If you had paid attention in school would you have been able to construct a sensible and worthwhile reply?

And your point is???

You started a debate so dont act the evo;) and stick to the main point !

tv3

EoinHeffernan wrote: »

Higher salaries, taxes, overheads etc. have to be accounted for.

viv2 wrote: »

Ahh no not another sterling versus euro complaint.


Shops dont use xe.com :rolleyes:

There ya go point answered so time to close this !

nodolan

tv3 wrote: »

There ya go point answered so time to close this !

Thus spake tv3. Amen.

GerardKeating

havana wrote: »

Yes but we had those higher costs a couple of years ago before the recent rate changes. And while some have risen slightly eg vat i do not believe they have all risen to an extent to warrent the current price differences.

But they usualy only fix the rates a few times a year, this suited us when the Euro was slowing sinking against the UK pound, it slow the rate of increase in prices and no-one complained about this, now the rates goes the other way and every one seems to want to compain..

gerrycollins

hi I'll wade in here for a moment.

with reference to all your point what would you like the rest of us to do?

im a retailer(grocery) and I have offered on boards for one non retailer to come look at my books as an answer to questions like yours so that you can tell other boardsters and to answer questions face to face.

so far no one has taken up my offer. so pm me if you want to meet me at my shop and look over figures.

havana

GerardKeating wrote: »

But they usualy only fix the rates a few times a year, this suited us when the Euro was slowing sinking against the UK pound, it slow the rate of increase in prices and no-one complained about this, now the rates goes the other way and every one seems to want to compain..

Fine and i certainly don't expect daily price changes to reflect currency changes but surely by now there should have been some price changes to factor it in. I'm sure when rates are going the other way they won't find it too difficult to make the adjustments

gerrycollins

havana wrote: »

Fine and i certainly don't expect daily price changes to reflect currency changes but surely by now there should have been some price changes to factor it in. I'm sure when rates are going the other way they won't find it too difficult to make the adjustments

retailers mostly buy through an irish office so prices quoted are in euro so to see any reduction the first reduction must come through the supplier via their irish office.

There have been some reductions but some shop are posting them to the public as "look at our reductions/cost cutting/savings" instead of actually telling us they are Sterling reductions.

If you go into musgraves cash and carry you can see some items highlighted as sterling savings GSK products(lucozade) and Wyett(sma).

ejmaztec

I think that we should take a moment here to sympathise with Austrian retailers because their customers can buy goods cheaper in Germany. There's no need for currency conversion, because the Euro is used in both countries.

jaffa20

How can you dismiss things like rent, vat, standard of living when they are relevant to business costs and thus prices must be increased to a point where a business can actually make a profit from the service they provide. If M&S Ireland matched their prices with that of the uk, they wouldn't survive. So OP, i see you as a troll if you will not entertain our so called "trollish" responses.

nodolan

gerrycollins wrote: »

hi I'll wade in here for a moment.

with reference to all your point what would you like the rest of us to do?

im a retailer(grocery) and I have offered on boards for one non retailer to come look at my books as an answer to questions like yours so that you can tell other boardsters and to answer questions face to face.

so far no one has taken up my offer. so pm me if you want to meet me at my shop and look over figures.

Hi Gerry,

I totally believe what you're saying. I've already stated that Irish retailers are being screwed by suppliers and transporters of goods. This was stated in the Daíl by one of your representatives and subsequently proven to be true on the national media. Tesco have the power to bypass the Irish suppliers and to do their own thing but you don't and I understand that. I also understand that the suppliers in the North and the UK have refused to allow you to bypass the suppliers here and won't sell you the goods. I don't have a simple answer, all I'm trying to do here is open up the debate and hopefully get a serious discussion going. I totally sympathize with your situation in fact.

On another note I went grocery shopping today in Tesco in Mahon Point. I haven't bought groceries in Tesco for over a year because of the deplorable state of their store in Paul Street in Cork the last few times I was there (no baskets, long queues, half the lights left off on a Sunday, rude checkout people, no carrier bags every other time I went there, etc.) but since I'm an opportunist shopper (I don't make lists and plan weeks in advance) I was free to buy whatever was on special offer and I managed to fill my basket (to the point where it hurt) with all kinds of organic and Fairtrade goods which cost me a lot less than M&S usually does so I'm a slightly happier camper.



P.S. I'll be up in Dublin soon and would gladly drop in to your store but not to pore over your books because I do believe you.

gerrycollins

nodolan wrote: »

Hi Gerry,

I totally believe what you're saying. I've already stated that Irish retailers are being screwed by suppliers and transporters of goods. This was stated in the Daíl by one of your representatives and subsequently proven to be true on the national media. Tesco have the power to bypass the Irish suppliers and to do their own thing but you don't and I understand that. I also understand that the suppliers in the North and the UK have refused to allow you to bypass the suppliers here and won't sell you the goods. I don't have a simple answer, all I'm trying to do here is open up the debate and hopefully get a serious discussion going. I totally sympathize with your situation in fact.

On another note I went grocery shopping today in Tesco in Mahon Point. I haven't bought groceries in Tesco for over a year because of the deplorable state of their store in Paul Street in Cork the last few times I was there (no baskets, long queues, half the lights left off on a Sunday, rude checkout people, no carrier bags every other time I went there, etc.) but since I'm an opportunist shopper (I don't make lists and plan weeks in advance) I was free to buy whatever was on special offer and I managed to fill my basket (to the point where it hurt) with all kinds of organic and Fairtrade goods which cost me a lot less than M&S usually does so I'm a slightly happier camper.



P.S. I'll be up in Dublin soon and would gladly drop in to your store but not to pore over your books because I do believe you.

personally M&S are a bit overrated and you would easily do better than M&S on price in a Tesco or a Dunnes or even my place to be honest.

ps im not in dublin if your cork based im closer

I dont think any discussion can take place(no offence) untill all elements involved in putting a product on the shelf for you to buy are targetted because all it need is for one cog of the wheel to be broken for the wheel to not turn.

I hope most people know that Tesco themselves transport their stock from uk based suppliers at sterling rates and could sell it a lot cheaper than anyone else nut they wont because the others are charging what they charge. to put it mildly if they were to charge the sterling rate they could put aldi and lidl out of business.