Unofficial Bus Strike...

dub_commuter

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

I'm sorry, but I'm of the opinion that they should have stuck it out until a proper arrangement / agreement was in place. Screwing the public for their own personal reasons is in no way justified.:

How many more times. There was an agreement. Discuss the issues, implement later, Dublin Bus broke this.

AlekSmart

t seems that there may be more underlying problems in Harristown than just the new schedule that was supposed to start on Sunday given how Alek has outlined what is happening in Donnybrook.

Obviously the relationships out there between management and staff are nowhere near what is required

Indeed Vandermeyde,it should be remembered that Harristown`s major route the number 4 continues to operate under a Labour Court derived (interim?) agreement which only came about after equally fraught times in the mid past.

You are,I feel, quite correct in your observations regarding Human Resource management in Harristown and addressing that remains central to moving this entire thing forward.

However,from a Head Office perspective,addressing those deficiencies involves admitting to some fairly major flaws in the entire Management appointment setup and that sort of mea-culpa does not sit easily with ANY Senior Managerial grade in ANY sector......except perhaps the Aviation industry...

My essential point remains that this situation is wasting a valuable time and effort resource which needs to be fully utilized to ensure that both BAC Staff and it`s dwindling customer base remain at one with each other.

Standing round a burning brazier or hissing and spitting at colleagues as they go to their work will DEFINITELY not advance the cause of the working classes one little bit.

shltter

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

If that was the case, how come it was only the one driver that led to this whole fiasco? Sure, there was obviously a lot of animosity already there, but it was he who forced the hand of the other drivers, and as per usual, they stick on their industrial strike action, screwing many a commuter in the process.

See that is just nonsense it's just one driver.

The way it works is that different routes and shifts start at different times so that particular driver just happened to be the first to ask for his duty refuse to work the duty given to him and be suspended.
Once that happened then no one else had to refuse or be suspended because no one else went in.

shltter

AlekSmart wrote: »

Indeed Vandermeyde,it should be remembered that Harristown`s major route the number 4 continues to operate under a Labour Court derived (interim?) agreement which only came about after equally fraught times in the mid past.

You are,I feel, quite correct in your observations regarding Human Resource management in Harristown and addressing that remains central to moving this entire thing forward.

However,from a Head Office perspective,addressing those deficiencies involves admitting to some fairly major flaws in the entire Management appointment setup and that sort of mea-culpa does not sit easily with ANY Senior Managerial grade in ANY sector......except perhaps the Aviation industry...

My essential point remains that this situation is wasting a valuable time and effort resource which needs to be fully utilized to ensure that both BAC Staff and it`s dwindling customer base remain at one with each other.

Standing round a burning brazier or hissing and spitting at colleagues as they go to their work will DEFINITELY not advance the cause of the working classes one little bit.

Alek

I don't know where you are getting your information but I was there yesterday and no one was intimidated those that wanted to went to work no hissing no spitting and when they returned some of them stopped and chatted to the lads outside. Some people told them they thought they were wrong but it was not even heated never mind intimidating.

Some of the people outside wanted to go to work but it was not intimidation that stopped them it was crossing a picket.

meanmachine3

Jip wrote: »

If you're marked in you have a set roster and route, you'll know months in advance what you're doing. If you're not then you don't really know what route and shift you'll be doing too far in advance, if at all.

jip is quite correct here, being a marked in driver i know what i'll be working around next christmas. the spare lads and lassies on the other hand are given less than 24hrs notice and in some cases they might only find out 12hrs in advance.

Dublin_Gunner

shltter wrote: »

See that is just nonsense it's just one driver.

The way it works is that different routes and shifts start at different times so that particular driver just happened to be the first to ask for his duty refuse to work the duty given to him and be suspended.
Once that happened then no one else had to refuse or be suspended because no one else went in.

But could the same not have been said if he HAD grabbed his bus and worked? Maybe the rest of the flock would have done the same then too?

Discuss the issues, implement later, Dublin Bus broke this.

And the drivers deciding not to work, start an un-sanctioned strike, harass drivers at other depots, prevent 10's of 1000's getting to their own jobs, cause chaos on the main routes, prevent people getting to hispital / relatives / schools etc

But they're all acting perfectly in line with said agreement are they? They're as bad as each other, management / union / drivers - but its only the drivers taking their childish tantrum out on the general populous who rely on the service.

Please stop spouting rubbish. This is nothing but DB drivers throwing their toys out of the pram, at everyone elses expense, because they didn't want to maybe work a little extra.

Pathetic.

maggy_thatcher

shltter wrote: »

If you work the bill you have accepted it. The company had no right to force in this bill until it had gone to a tribunal if no agreement was found.

And if they had done as you said no doubt you would be here saying " hang on they have been working this schedule for X number of days and now they won't work it anymore if it was ok to work yesterday why is it not ok to work it now"

In a way, it would show whether or not that DB got the bill right or not -- the driver could operate the route under the new bill -- if it gets heavily delayed and breaks then the drivers have some ammo when it comes to the tribunal, if it all works fine, then what have the drivers got to complain about? If it results in the driver going over hours - the driver could just abandon the route "early" and go straight home -- it'll quickly show if the bill is unworkable or not. Why not just give it a try?

jaybird

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

If that was the case, how come it was only the one driver that led to this whole fiasco? Sure, there was obviously a lot of animosity already there, but it was he who forced the hand of the other drivers, and as per usual, they stick on their industrial strike action, screwing many a commuter in the process.


I'm sorry, but I'm of the opinion that they should have stuck it out until a proper arrangement / agreement was in place. Screwing the public for their own personal reasons is in no way justified.

They are too heavily unionised. Jebus, if I worked strictly to my job description, feck all would get done.

Gob forbid some people might have to work a bit harder these days :rolleyes:

You are completely missing the point. It wasn't one driver that forced the issue, he just happened to be the first one handed the new bill on the sunday morning, it could have been anybody. The management knew that when they handed that bill to a driver, any driver, they would have said they wouldn't, and couldn't work it. No bill can be worked that has not be previously agreed between union and management. Thats as basic as it gets.
Management handed out that bill knowing that 2 mins later the driver would be suspended, and that the other drivers would go with him.

Do you really think the clowns who make up the schedules of the top of their heads can be trusted to do it properly? The bills have to be agreed so that the drivers can point out all the spots where they are meant to be at 2 places at once, or where they have been given 10 mins to do a 40
min journey.
Don't you realise that most of the time when your bus doesn't arrive, or when 3 turn up together after an hours wait, its because of these stupid schedules that can;t be done, and thats AFTER the worst has been taken out by agreement?

You may work extra hours or do extra work to keep your company running. The drivers aren't against that. But if you had had countless meetings with your boss, agreed to lots of measures to improve efficiency and cut costs, and then after all that they sauntered in on a sunday morning and said, you will do more extra hours, no talk, just do it, and basically spit in your face, would you say yes sir, no sir, 3 bags full sir?
More fool you if you would.

meanmachine3

jaybird wrote: »

Imagine never knowing what shift you will be on from one day to the next. Imagine only finding out the night before whether you will be in at 5am the next day or 12pm? Or you could be on a split shift, with several hours break inbetween 2 half shifts, and they have taken back the spilt shift allowance and make you do that 4 hour break in town, away from your own garage and unable to go home.

again all true, theres an old saying of "**** the spareman" which i personally find quite offensive but it is said. the payment you refer to jay is actually called a spreadover payment and it's mainly paid for working bogey type duties. the spare drivers have no life, they cannot plan ahead except for their days off. they're only entitled to a days work. the only stipulation is those on earlys cant work lates but they could be given earlys, bogies and reliefs. they are basically given the **** for about 6-7 years till they get marked in

shltter

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

But could the same not have been said if he HAD grabbed his bus and worked? Maybe the rest of the flock would have done the same then too?


.

But there was no agreement to work that duty.

You can dance around it all day but the simple fact is DB management promised to behave in a particular way and then they broke that promise.

If the bill for the 128 had been held back for a few days to allow it complete procedures then there would be no dispute that's what we all signed up for.

jaybird

meanmachine3 wrote: »

again all true, theres an old saying of "**** the spareman" which i personally find quite offensive but it is said. the payment you refer to jay is actually called a spreadover payment and it's mainly paid for working bogey type duties. the spare drivers have no life, they cannot plan ahead except for their days off. they're only entitled to a days work. the only stipulation is those on earlys cant work lates but they could be given earliers, bogies and reliefs. they are basically given the **** for about 6-7 years till they get marked in

Don't I know it mate! You want to try being a wife or kid of a spare driver, bloody nightmare! And for feck all money too......:rolleyes:

shltter

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

In a way, it would show whether or not that DB got the bill right or not -- the driver could operate the route under the new bill -- if it gets heavily delayed and breaks then the drivers have some ammo when it comes to the tribunal, if it all works fine, then what have the drivers got to complain about? If it results in the driver going over hours - the driver could just abandon the route "early" and go straight home -- it'll quickly show if the bill is unworkable or not. Why not just give it a try?

But why not just do what was promised why after all the effort to get the changes in numerous trips to the LRC and the Labour court more ballots than you could shake a stick at why depart from agreed procedures that the company had promised to follow not a week earlier.

Why force a dispute?

liger

What happened up in Phibsboro and S/Hill this morning?

shltter

meanmachine3 wrote: »

again all true, theres an old saying of "**** the spareman" which i personally find quite offensive but it is said. the payment you refer to jay is actually called a spreadover payment and it's mainly paid for working bogey type duties. the spare drivers have no life, they cannot plan ahead except for their days off. they're only entitled to a days work. the only stipulation is those on earlys cant work lates but they could be given earlys, bogies and reliefs. they are basically given the **** for about 6-7 years till they get marked in

Longer depending on Garage and with 120 buses gone probably will only get longer

dorothygale

I certainly don't support this unofficial strike. The loss of the routes is a shame but there is a reason people have stopped using them.

In my experience Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann drivers are rude, unhelpful and never show up on time. Rarely have I had an exception. I'd love to see them all lose their jobs. I wonder if we could give all their jobs to Polish workers, they have a proven good work ethic.

I have to go to Dundalk from Dublin a few times a week and stopped taking the late and dirty Bus Eireann buses and started using the Matthews buses. The Matthews buses are always clean, the drivers are helpful and they have wireless Internet access. They even have a 1 hour direct route.

Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann have no concept of customer service in my opinion, we only have ourselves to blame for putting up with it as long as we have.

My name is Mud

I think the clowns are wildcat strikers

If the bill is crap, work it anyway and therefore obtain ammo to get it changed via the correct channels.

Or perhaps not. Strike away to prove a ridiculious point.

_blank_

People moaning about these "spare drivers". Surely the people know the working conditions before they accept the job?

They signed up for this, didn't they?

No point moaning about it after signing a contract agreeing to it.

Dublin_Gunner

jaybird wrote: »

You may work extra hours or do extra work to keep your company running. The drivers aren't against that. But if you had had countless meetings with your boss, agreed to lots of measures to improve efficiency and cut costs, and then after all that they sauntered in on a sunday morning and said, you will do more extra hours, no talk, just do it, and basically spit in your face, would you say yes sir, no sir, 3 bags full sir?
More fool you if you would.

I'm not missing any point.

I understand what happened, its the resolution that the drivers decided off their own bat that I'm really pissed with.

And if I had a certain issue because of a work schedule, I most certainly wouldn't drag 1000's of innocent people into it with me.

They are acting nothing but selfishly, and not for one second considering the people their affecting.

My name is Mud

meanmachine3 wrote: »

they are basically given the **** for about 6-7 years till they get marked in

So the sparemen have to...shock horror...WORK up the ranks for a whole 6 YEARS before they get marked in on a cushty number?

My heart bleeds.

Tell that to an ambulance driver - they work all sorts of insane shifts and get more abuse than bus drivers ALL THE TIME.

_blank_

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

They are acting nothing but selfishly, and not for one second considering the people their affecting.

This is the main argument that jaybird and other bus-related posters are ignoring.

What about the stranded passangers?

Does no-one give a flying fig about us?

No-one in Dublin Bus does anyway. Driver OR manager.

Yet the drivers expect sympathy?

Well, they can go and jump for all I care.

The only thing I care about is getting to work on time. The drivers caused me not to for the last two days, and they delayed my journey home.

Bastards.

Eoineo

Des, knowing that you have to work as a spare man for up to 7 years in advance isn't much help until you start doing it. The first couple of months are manageable, its' when you're a year in the job that you tend to hit the wall and find that being the spare man is nothing like you expected.

I'd like to thank the Dublin Bus drivers. I'm certainly not one for privatisation but as I'm associated with a private transport company our passenger numbers have gone through the roof the last few days. I hope our new passengers will enjoy our service and use us more often.

Dublin_Gunner

Des wrote: »

No-one in Dublin Bus does anyway. Driver OR manager.

Yes the drivers expect sympathy?

Well, they can go and jump for all I care.

The only thing about is getting to work on time. The drivers caused me not to for the last two days, and they delayed my journey home.

Bastards.

Thats what I've been saying too Des - the drivers and management are so far stuck up their own backsides, they can't see past their own bloody windscreens.

I've been late 2 days in a row, had to spend 20 quid on a taxi yesterday.

And guess what? I have an Annual DB ticket. Guts of 900 quid, and I can't even get my local bus route the last 3 days.

Effing disgrace they are.

Maybe the regular bus users should go on strike, and not use DB services, for a few days. After all, we didn't agree to having ABSOLUTELY NO service since Saturday - did we?

MOH

jaybird wrote: »

You may be happy to give up every shred of employee protection in order to keep a small number of people in jobs. I care about the quality of those jobs and that people have their rights protected.

On the contrary, I care a great deal that employees are treated fairly. I've worked in places before where management treated staff like dirt, and I walked.

But when a small group of people decide to take an action that inconveniences thousands, I lose any interest in the quality of their jobs or protection of their rights. At they end of the day, whatever provocation there was from DB management, these people chose to refuse to work. They've completely undermined their own and their colleagues cause by giving a massive PR boost to the managment side, which will quite possibly cost them in the long run. And they've lost all public sympathy.

_blank_

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

and not use DB services

I have no other choice.

I don't fit on a bike.

Dublin_Gunner

Des wrote: »

I have no other choice.

I don't fit on a bike.

All us Dub 9/11 heads should form an orderly queue and walk into town, holding up picket signs, and throwing stones at buses that pass.

They really don't deserve to be getting the income from the public, as everytime there's a dispute, its us that end up paying for it, by being late for work, not even making it to work, getting taxis, being late for school, missing appointments etc

shltter

My name is Mud wrote: »

I think the clowns are wildcat strikers

If the bill is crap, work it anyway and therefore obtain ammo to get it changed via the correct channels.

Or perhaps not. Strike away to prove a ridiculious point.

Once a bill is in the drivers have NO and I repeat NO way to get it changed all they can do is request management to look at revising the bill. In my depot we are still waiting 5 years for a promised new bill for one particular road.

That is why there is such strong feelings on bills once they are in they are very hard to get changed.

Dublin_Gunner

Lets all show our appreciation of Dublin Bus services via the following, interesting link:


http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/Travel-News/Customer-Satisfaction-Survey/

shltter

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

and throwing stones at buses that pass.

c

idiot

Tom Dunne

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Lets all show our appreciation of Dublin Bus services via the following, interesting link:


http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/Travel-News/Customer-Satisfaction-Survey/

Done.

And Signature updated to spread the good news.

jaybird

dorothygale wrote: »

In my experience Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann drivers are rude, unhelpful and never show up on time. Rarely have I had an exception. I'd love to see them all lose their jobs. I wonder if we could give all their jobs to Polish workers, they have a proven good work ethic.


Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann have no concept of customer service in my opinion, we only have ourselves to blame for putting up with it as long as we have.

Why to people keep going on about bus drivers not turning up on time. They drive the bus to the schedule on the bill. They can't do anything about how long it takes them. If they go on out of service it is because the management have told them to. THEY HAVE NO CONTROL OVER WHEN THEY TURN UP AT YOUR STOP, THEY JUST DRIVE THE DAMN BUS AS THEY ARE TOLD. When the schedule says they have 10 mins to get to your stop, when its 20 mins away, how on earth can you blame them for being late?????

The problems you have are all because of the way the buses are managed, not how they are driven, you are just either too selfish or stupid to care. You all think that the drivers should put up with anything at all so that you are never inconvenienced, you couldn't care less about them, why should they care about you? When they try to keep drivers and buses on your services, when you don't care. When the vast majority are polite and hardworking, ande deliver you saely to your destination within the difficult constraints they are given to work with, and you only notice the one time in a hundred you get a rude driver.