Unofficial Bus Strike...

Ste.phen

MiniD wrote: »

Whats is a Peak duty vehicle?

Surely if the timetable is tightened up with reduced running time then it should be spread out across the day. Where is the big gap on the timetable at peak time?

I don't think there needs to be a *long* gap in the timetable at peak time for it to affect service, peak time being the peak and all that.

MiniD

dub_commuter wrote: »

From what I have heard, they have about 5 or occasionally 10 minutes sitting there during peak, however from what I have heard, they want to cut the running time by up to 10 minutes during peak. Judging by on average the bus has less than this to spare before going out, you can see where the problem lies.

So the 128 has up 10 minutes waiting time at the terminus during peak hours, and the company wants to reduce waiting time by up to 10 minutes during peak time. Surely that makes sense?

Why have buses sitting idle at the terminus?

MiniD

Ste.phen wrote: »

I don't think there needs to be a *long* gap in the timetable at peak time for it to affect service, peak time being the peak and all that.

I agree. I can't see a long gap on the 128 timetable, so I don't know how services would be affected?

dub_commuter

MiniD wrote: »

So the 128 has up 10 minutes waiting time at the terminus during peak hours, and the company wants to reduce waiting time by up to 10 minutes during peak time. Surely that makes sense?

Why have buses sitting idle at the terminus?

No, there is a big difference. the majority of buses on the 128 have around 6-7 minutes to wait before they go out again, it is my belief from what I have been told that they are likely to cut these journey times by more than the average time spare, by a few minutes. This means that every bus will be late, and if 3 minutes is lost for every journey, that bus will operate later and later past it's due timetabled time for each service.

When this delay gets to a stage of half an hour, the garage will consider CANCELLING a service, in order to get the route running back to it's correct timetable. This is one bus you say, there are still others and no big gaps in the timetable. But the others are having the same problem, getting later and later, as not enough running time, ANOTHER bus gets CANCELED to ensure that buses turn up on time rather than delays. Coupled with the fact drivers can only work certain length of shifts, you end up having to cancel services due to not enough running time.

Look at the example on the 39 a year or so ago, when you would get big gaps in timetables, and buses out oif service despite the timetable looked like there should be lots. The reason was. Not enough running time, services have to be cancelled due to the fact they were running so late, they needed to miss out a journey to catch up on time lost.

I think we will all agree, that it is in nobodies interest for a bus to run late. After all, how can we hope to attract more people to our public transport when we are not ensuring the buses run on time.

We should not be going down the route of "About every xx minutes" on the timetables, if we were going to do this the system you say would work, but it does nothing to inspire people to move over to public transport, and the most basic idea of all with public transport is to make sure it runs on time. If I expect to get a bus at 6.30 on a timetable which is 15 mins frequency I expect it to be there, you could argue if the 6.15 bus is delayed until 6.23 and the 6.30 to 6.38 for instance it's still a 15 min frequency, but it does not enable me to get to work on time as it's LATE

markpb

I'm very annoyed this morning. I checked the DB website at 7am and it said only H'town buses were affected. Both my buses were cancelled as expected. Walked to Northside SC and joined the ever growing queue of people waiting for a 27 only to find out 20 minutes later that Clontarf had joined. Ended up walking back to the Swords road and seeing a 16A, 33 and 41 go past full until I got another bus and I'm only in work now.

1. Why did they join the strike?

2. What time did they strike at? The notice on the DB site was timestamped 6.15? If I knew Clontarf was closed, I'd have been in work an hour ago.

I understand why H'town drivers are on strike but Clontarf joining them with no notice is unacceptable? DB not keeping the website up to date is equally bad. They should have known by 7am that Clontarf was closed.

Same ****e, different day.

MOH

dub_commuter wrote: »

I clearly wonder about management at times. They clearly have zero idea. This afternoon they had a choice.

Put back the changes by two weeks and defer the withdrawl of two buses by two weeks.
OR
Suspend a driver which would lead to a whole out strike which would lead to at least the entire garage going out.

Laughably Dublin Bus elected to pick the second one.

dub_commuter wrote: »

Yes - Dublin Bus management have not made themselves avaliable for talks to resolve the issue and have not took the option to defer the changes, therefore they have made no effort to avoid the strike so there will be one.

Eh, have they not been waiting tio implement changes for a few months now?

It's fairly obvious at this stage that the crowd in Harristown are quite happy to go on strike at a moment's notice, and to hell with the customer.

If there's going to be strikes anyway, DB may as well just go back to their original plan.

dub_commuter wrote: »

After all, how can we hope to attract more people to our public transport when we are not ensuring the buses run on time.

Or when a small group of drivers can once again disrupt half the city.

dub_commuter

markpb wrote: »

I'm very annoyed this morning. I checked the DB website at 7am and it said only H'town buses were affected. Both my buses were cancelled as expected. Walked to Northside SC and joined the ever growing queue of people waiting for a 27 only to find out 20 minutes later that Clontarf had joined. Ended up walking back to the Swords road and seeing a 16A, 33 and 41 go past full until I got another bus and I'm only in work now

2. What time did they strike at? The notice on the DB site was timestamped 6.15? If I knew Clontarf was closed, I'd have been in work an hour ago.

I understand why H'town drivers are on strike but Clontarf joining them with no notice is unacceptable? DB not keeping the website up to date is equally bad. They should have known by 7am that Clontarf was closed.

DB cannot handle communications with their customers, I would have thought everyone would have known this by now, as it's not something that is relatively new to the company.

There are euros effected which effect Phibs routes, Dublin Bus told me on the customer service line they know which timetabled services these effect, however they are declining to publish what timetabled services on the curtailed routes are not running.

dub_commuter

MOH wrote: »

Eh, have they not been waiting tio implement changes for a few months now?

Dublin Bus agreed to use the standard procedure for bringing in new bills, prior to the ballot, which takes more than a week. Since they got acceptance in the ballot they have decided they will not use the agreed procedure for changing bills, and instead will implement first, and talk later.

I am sure in your company, if you had a ballot, and then after they won the ballot, the company started changing what they said they would do before the ballot to something totally different, you would not be happy.;

There is a standard agreed procedure to deciding bills, and the unions I believe advised their members this would be followed before the ballot. As soon as the company won the ballot they decided they would not follow the rules, and instead would implement them whatever the cost.

The drivers and staff at Harristown have offered to discuss the issues this weekend, or to defer the changes, Management said they did not want to discuss the issues and instead will introduce them neverless. Dublin Bus are continually saying they will implement first, debate later, despite the fact for years the agreed procedure between management and staff has been that debate first implementation later.

Management are continuing to avoid talks to stop the strike from happening. If they really wanted to get this issue resolved, can someone tell me why they are doing nothing but getting out the linea bout "Waiting for the drivers to go back to work" The drivers are perfectly happy to discuss this and get this issue resolved, however management are not willing to even enter discussions with them, therefore are making no effort to curtail the strike.

Anyway, I'm sick of repeating the same posts, this will be my last post for the moment.

_blank_

They should just fire these arseholes

Jip

dub_commuter wrote: »

Anyway, I'm sick of repeating the same posts, this will be my last post for the moment.

Thank god says I. While you're away step back and look at the bigger picture. Drivers are operating an unofficial strike without union agreement affecting thousands of people over the last couple of days. But somehow it's still managements fault.

_blank_

Jip wrote: »

Thank god says I. While you're away step back and look at the bigger picture. Drivers are operating an unofficial strike without union agreement affecting thousands of people over the last couple of days. But somehow it's still managements fault.

This.

I don't care about some petty squabble between management and drivers.

I DO care about having my life disrupted by these **** though, and it's twice now.

Get the army in I say.

dub_commuter

If the company did what they promised, prior to the ballots, and stuck to their own rules there would be no dispute today.

The fact is the company told untruths in order to get the ballot voted in, and as soon as they got the ballot voted in they moved the goalposts.

Whether they should or should not go on strike is open to debate. But surely anyone can see that lying in order to get the result they wanted is not acceptable, and if the same happened in your company I doubt you would be pleased.

Jip

You weren't gone long were you ? If they should strike or not is not up for debate. It's an unofficial action, end of.
If the samething happened in my company they would take disiciplinary action against the employees. Then again we work in the real world, Dublin Bus drivers are on a different planet altogether.

shltter

Jip wrote: »

Thank god says I. While you're away step back and look at the bigger picture. Drivers are operating an unofficial strike without union agreement affecting thousands of people over the last couple of days. But somehow it's still managements fault.

Its unofficial because you have to give 7 days notice you can not give seven days notice if you are only given a bill on Friday that the company says they are introducing this Sunday. Its basic arithmetic.

If the company had done as they promised then there would be no dispute.


They got what they wanted at the Labour court and they agreed to follow the agreed procedures once there is a yes vote they row back on that promise.

In the week since the acceptance the unions and management agreed 28 out of the 30 buses that the company wanted removed yesterday. It is a disgrace that after all the LRC and labour court interventions the numerous ballots etc that we end up with a strike over a bill because the company by passed the agreed procedure.

dub_commuter

I thought this was a dicussion forum where people debate and talk about things. Sorry if I was wrong.

Jip

You skirted nicely over the fact about how things operate in the real world. Union rep or wannabe one ?

Debate that.

shltter

markpb wrote: »

I'm very annoyed this morning. I checked the DB website at 7am and it said only H'town buses were affected. Both my buses were cancelled as expected. Walked to Northside SC and joined the ever growing queue of people waiting for a 27 only to find out 20 minutes later that Clontarf had joined. Ended up walking back to the Swords road and seeing a 16A, 33 and 41 go past full until I got another bus and I'm only in work now.

1. Why did they join the strike?

2. What time did they strike at? The notice on the DB site was timestamped 6.15? If I knew Clontarf was closed, I'd have been in work an hour ago.

I understand why H'town drivers are on strike but Clontarf joining them with no notice is unacceptable? DB not keeping the website up to date is equally bad. They should have known by 7am that Clontarf was closed.

Same ****e, different day.

I heard yesterday that the drivers from Harristown were going to place a picket on Clontarf this morning.

Jonathan

dub_commuter wrote: »

There are euros effected which effect Phibs routes, Dublin Bus told me on the customer service line they know which timetabled services these effect, however they are declining to publish what timetabled services on the curtailed routes are not running.

What are these euros you speak of?

devnull

shltter wrote: »

Its unofficial because you have to give 7 days notice you can not give seven days notice if you are only given a bill on Friday that the company says they are introducing this Sunday. Its basic arithmetic.

If the company had done as they promised then there would be no dispute.They got what they wanted at the Labour court and they agreed to follow the agreed procedures once there is a yes vote they row back on that promise.

In the week since the acceptance the unions and management agreed 28 out of the 30 buses that the company wanted removed yesterday. It is a disgrace that after all the LRC and labour court interventions the numerous ballots etc that we end up with a strike over a bill because the company by passed the agreed procedure.

Dublin Bus I understand have basically violated what the labour court have recommended, so DB are claiming that drivers have accepted these bills, as they voted for the ballot and also the labour court recommended these bills.

However that is only telling part of the story because of the fact is Dublin Bus are being selective with what parts of the Labour Court recommendations they are adhering to, so on one hand they're saying we're just doing what the labour court tells them, but they're only using the aspects they like, whilst not the ones they don't. Very hypocritical if thats the case.

shltter

Jonathan wrote: »

What are these euros you speak of?

Euros are buses that operate at peak times to supplement a route often on express services like the 39X etc.
Many of them operate from harristown for routes that are not based in Harristown so that is how the 37 and 39 etc are affected even though they operate from a different depot.

dub_commuter

Jonathan wrote: »

What are these euros you speak of?

Euros are serviced provided by Harristown on routes which are not their own. For example, on the 37/38/39 a lot of the peak departures are not operated by their main garage, but Harristown instead.

Therefore this evening these routes will be effected with a much reduced service at peak times, and will have a curtailed service, Dublin Bus are well aware which exact services these are, but are not publishing these on their website.

Presumably Dublin Bus are not keeping their customers informed on purpose to try and gain public support, so when the buses do not turn up passengers turn on the striking drivers that management will blame.

Whether or not you agree with the strike, DB should be giving the customers all the information they can rather than holding it back.

dub_commuter

Jip wrote: »

You skirted nicely over the fact about how things operate in the real world. Union rep or wannabe one ? Debate that.

Sorry to break it to you but I'm a commuter (Clue in the name....) If you look through my posts you will see that I have on many occasions slammed drivers, head office, and other departments I have no hidden agenda.

shltter

devnull wrote: »

Dublin Bus I understand have basically violated what the labour court have recommended, so DB are claiming that drivers have accepted these bills, as they voted for the ballot and also the labour court recommended these bills.

However that is only telling part of the story because of the fact is Dublin Bus are being selective with what parts of the Labour Court recommendations they are adhering to, so on one hand they're saying we're just doing what the labour court tells them, but they're only using the aspects they like, whilst not the ones they don't. Very hypocritical if thats the case.

The bills are NOT part of the labour court recommendation.

The new bills are a product of withdrawing buses from the fleet there are agreed procedures for implementing a new bill and the company in a letter from Gerry Maguire to the unions promised that the procedures would be followed.

The labour court document gave the company the green light to withdraw the the buses and that issues arising from that could be dealt with afterwards so in that respect the company is correct they have the labour court agreement. However after that and prior to the vote the company said that the introduction of bills would follow agreed procedure since that was the companies stated position just prior to the ballot that over rules the Labour Court document.

az2wp0sye65487

pink fluffy bunny wrote: »

well, i can tell you at 8.15am this morning on the N2, there were two gardai pulling all cars driving in the bus lanes - the bastards

You're joking? I heard at around 8.20 on the radio - they were interviewing someone from Dublin Bus, and the presenter actually interrupted the interview and said "This is just coming in, we have been advised by the Gardaí that all inbound bus lanes are suspended to alleviate congestion...." or something along those lines, but she DEFINITELY said that they had been advised by the Gardaí

ninebeanrows

Fire every last one of them and give the jobs to people who want and respect the commuter.

There needs to be a cleanout of these annoyances from Dublin Bus.

It is beyond a joke.

ixoy

So you're saying that some internal agreement between DB management and drivers supersedes the LRC recommendation on some issues?

Yes it seems management are being dicks but so are the drivers - loads of them not showing up in support of one driver whilst clearly not supporting thousands of commuters. There has to be better methods than this antagonistic relationship from which nobody wins. Strikes should be the last resort but all to often in heavily-unionised environments it seems to the first one (or, at the very least, the threat of it).

Jonathan

The drivers wouldn't strike if they thought they could lose their job.

The trade unions are too strong.

KerranJast

Jonathan wrote: »

The drivers wouldn't strike if they thought they could lose their job.

The trade unions are too strong.

The Govt is under so much pressure to save money they could quite easily sack the lot of them today and they'll find non-unionised drivers from the private sector and from the UK to fill the positions sharpish.

dub_commuter

ixoy wrote: »

So you're saying that some internal agreement between DB management and drivers supersedes the LRC recommendation on some issues?

The labour court recommendations do not cover the procedures for bills. It does not state that the bills should be exempt from the normal procedure, therefore there is nothing to supersedes the agreement in the recommendation for this particular issue if I understand correctly.

There are in other areas, but not about bills.

philip100

Dub Commuter, I don't know if you are a driver or a union rep but reading the comments you have to face the facts no one agrees with your comments or with the drivers. It is obvious the drivers have taken this stunt to cause as much disruption as possible to commuters hence pressurising management into reversing their decission. The only word I can think of to describe these drivers is scum and with the country being in the situation it is at present they should be very happy for the jobs they have.