Unofficial Bus Strike...

trellheim

1. This strike is unofficial.

2. If drivers had a problem, get local SIPTU and NBRU to slam in strike notice as per the law.

3. Striking in this fashion assists no-one. Perhaps I'm wrong on this. How does it assist people ?

meanmachine3

shltter wrote: »

The bills are NOT part of the labour court recommendation.

The new bills are a product of withdrawing buses from the fleet there are agreed procedures for implementing a new bill and the company in a letter from Gerry Maguire to the unions promised that the procedures would be followed.

oh F.F.S. people will you learn to read. i'm getting sick and tired of people posting here without reading what being said. i'll highlight it again and again.

shltter wrote: »

the company in a letter from Gerry Maguire to the unions promised that the procedures would be followed.

see the word promised heres a difinition of the word for those of you that dont know what it is.

Promise

---

In general, a declaration, written or verbal, made by one person to another, which binds the person who makes it to do, or to forbear to do, a specified act; a declaration which gives to the person to whom it is made a right to expect or to claim the performance or forbearance of a specified act.

shltter wrote: »

the company in a letter from Gerry Maguire to the unions promised that the procedures would be followed.

the drivers broke no such agreements, the comapny gave/made a promise and they broke it plain and simple. now who's to blame, the drivers for taking unoffical action over broken promises or the company from breaking promises they made.
most of you are able to vote, if your local T.D. made broken promises would you re-elect them again, i dont think so.
if your neighbour went out and protested over broken promises and held up whatever was in your area would you have a go at those people, i dont think so
as for dub_commuter. his name says it all. he's a commuter just like most of you, the only difference between this guy and alot of you is he seems to get on well with the drivers on his route by the which the company want to erode. they want as little communication between passengers and drivers as possible.
here i'll post again

shltter wrote: »

the company in a letter from Gerry Maguire to the unions promised that the procedures would be followed.

P-R-O-M-I-S-E-D that P-R-O-C-E-D-U-R-E-S would be followed.
right i'm off to work now, gotta see if i'm driving or on unoffical strike
chat later folks

angel01

trellheim wrote: »

1. This strike is unofficial.

2. If drivers had a problem, get local SIPTU and NBRU to slam in strike notice as per the law.

3. Striking in this fashion assists no-one. Perhaps I'm wrong on this. How does it assist people ?

So just because it isn't official, that makes it wrong??

Jip

Unofficial
not having official authority or sanction; "a sort of unofficial mayor"; "an unofficial estimate"; "he participated in an unofficial capacity"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

That's U-N-O-F-F-I-C-I-A-L just for you meanmachine.

maggy_thatcher

angel01 wrote: »

So just because it isn't official, that makes it wrong??

Absolutely yes. It stops anybody (commuters included) from implementing a backup procedure. The internal squabble between one guy refusing to do his job and his employer has now spread into shutting down large swathes of the DB network. If I were DB management, I'd fire the lot of them, and put the jobs out for tender. There should be no job protection for "workers" who don't follow the SOP for striking. Once that's done, they can be thrown out of the depot (it's trespassing on private property), so anybody else who wants to do an honest days work but feels intimidated crossing the picket line can do so. Unfortunately, DB Management are a bunch of cowards, and won't actually do that.

Jip

Good woman Maggy, any chance you can some out of retirement and sort this lot out !

I wonder if the state will allow private companies to operate the affected routes for the duration of the dossing ? Seems like a solution to me, private operators get a bit of extra cash, the public aren't affected and the Dublin bus drivers can sit on their ass for as long as they like.

MOH

dub_commuter wrote: »

The drivers and staff at Harristown have offered to discuss the issues this weekend, or to defer the changes, Management said they did not want to discuss the issues and instead will introduce them neverless. Dublin Bus are continually saying they will implement first, debate later, despite the fact for years the agreed procedure between management and staff has been that debate first implementation later.

Management are continuing to avoid talks to stop the strike from happening. If they really wanted to get this issue resolved, can someone tell me why they are doing nothing but getting out the linea bout "Waiting for the drivers to go back to work" The drivers are perfectly happy to discuss this and get this issue resolved, however management are not willing to even enter discussions with them, therefore are making no effort to curtail the strike.

So why don't the drivers go back to work, serve strike notice, and either talk in the meantime or go on official strike after the notice period? Rather than leaving dozens or hundreds of passengers standing around at bus stops with no idea what's going on?

shltter

ixoy wrote: »

So you're saying that some internal agreement between DB management and drivers supersedes the LRC recommendation on some issues?

Yes it seems management are being dicks but so are the drivers - loads of them not showing up in support of one driver whilst clearly not supporting thousands of commuters. There has to be better methods than this antagonistic relationship from which nobody wins. Strikes should be the last resort but all to often in heavily-unionised environments it seems to the first one (or, at the very least, the threat of it).

A letter from DB management on how they will implement the changes supercedes the Labour Court document.


It is not just one driver it is just the first driver that happened to ask for the board once he was suspended then no one else asked so no one else was suspended.

There are better ways there are the agreed procedures once one party unilaterally decides to step outside those procedures then all bets are off.

And end of the day we either stand together or get picked off on your own if you continue to work and leave X number of drivers suspended then it removes pressure to resolve the issue.

markpb

Jip wrote: »

You skirted nicely over the fact about how things operate in the real world. Union rep or wannabe one ?

Debate that.

It's not as simple as you're making out. The company agreed to follow certain procedures when changing routes or rosters. Yesterday morning they changed their minds, knowing it would cause a strike. Yes the drivers should follow normal strike procedure but DB management in H'town deliberately forced this strike.

I was badly affected this morning so I'm not exactly a union sympathiser but I can see the bigger picture. Management and the unions managed to agree on all but one of the changes - DB could have deferred changes to the last route and not caused this disruption.

thedolemoocher

How long will this strike happen for by any chance? A few weeks A few months

shltter

Jip wrote: »

Unofficial
not having official authority or sanction; "a sort of unofficial mayor"; "an unofficial estimate"; "he participated in an unofficial capacity"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

That's U-N-O-F-F-I-C-I-A-L just for you meanmachine.

You can not give 7 days notice if you are not given 7 days notice of the your employers intentions.
If the company want to give adequate notice of when they intend to breach agreements then the unions will have no problem balloting and issuing notice.

The drivers turned up yesterday to do the work they are contracted to do the employer has changed that in breach of agreements what is the point of agreements and letters from management promising to follow those agreements if the company once it has achieved the desired result in a ballot then rows back on that promise.

shltter

markpb wrote: »

It's not as simple as you're making out. The company agreed to follow certain procedures when changing routes or rosters. Yesterday morning they changed their minds, knowing it would cause a strike. Yes the drivers should follow normal strike procedure but DB management in H'town deliberately forced this strike.

I was badly affected this morning so I'm not exactly a union sympathiser but I can see the bigger picture. Management and the unions managed to agree on all but one of the changes - DB could have deferred changes to the last route and not caused this disruption.

Exactly mark there is absolutely no need for any of this nonsense at all given that the unions agreed to all the changes yesterday except the 128 within less than a week it is clear that there is agreement possible if the procedures promised are followed.

shltter

thedolemoocher wrote: »

How long will this strike happen for by any chance? A few weeks A few months

Hopefully not long given the time and effort that went into avoiding a strike it is absolutely ridiculous that we now have disruptions to services over the introduction of a bill where there is a clearly written procedure that both sides have agreed to follow.

AlekSmart

The trade unions are too strong.

I think Jonathan may well find that in this case the Unions ain`t strong enough.

This Harristown dispute is yet another example of a situation which has existed there since the facility opened.

Essentially it revolves around a well motivated and organized group of Politically Active staff who see the recognised Trades Unions as having "Sold Out" on as many issues as can be found at any one time.

Seasoned observers of such activities will,of course,recognise that this type of Politicization of the workforce never really existed in the Republic of Ireland even in the bastions of Trades Unionism such as the CIE Group once represented.

It did however exist in the UK,particularly in the Coal,Steel and Transport Industries and this era is the one where much of the rhetoric being spoken at Harristown is coming from.

It is the politics of Class Struggle and makes for stirring reading as well as great oratory,however as Baroness Thatcher well and truly proved,it has a very significant weakness in that it is almost TOTALLY based upon rhetoric with very little tangible results accruing to its followers except for a short lived feeling of "Fraternitè,Egalitè and Liberalitè....which most certainly will NOT pay the bills.

Let one thing be absolutely clear in relation to the Bus Atha Cliath situation,and also the looming Bus Eireann developments...NONE of these proposals are in the best Interests of the Companies,Their Workforces,their Customers or the Country`s Public Transport Infrastructure in general.

The "Survival Plans" such as have been presented represent the inevitable result of a Government whose understanding and enthusiasm for recognising,developing and extending affordable Public Transport is NIL.

The present Minister is merely the latest in a long line of functionaries who were "given" Transport as their brief whilst not having the blindest Interest in anything related to it.

Minister Dempsey`s policies,guided by a small coterie of Senior Recession Proofed Civil Servants (Take a peep at Pension and retirement benefits for a Departmental Secretary General) have allowed the CIE Road Passenger companies to flit around aimlessly with neither of them being allocated clearly defined targets and more importantly,those targets which were "mentioned" in the NDP and T21 were Flagships with NO ongoing funding to operate them after the initial announcement and Media Launch.

There is NOTHING to be gained by this latest action in Harristown,just as there is nothing to be gained from the "Survival Plans" themselves.
The chant of "Privatise It" may sound stirring on the battlements but might sound a bit hollow to the 1,100 FirstBus employees in the UK and 3,000 in the US who face redundancy over the next 4 months due to "worsening market conditions".

If the Harristown Group really want to protest then I would suggest Kildare Street as a good starting point and perhaps less of a focus on ballyragging and attempting to damage the cars of other Staff (fellow Workers also) who disagree with their actions in this particular case.

If ANY group needs to rely on physical intimidation to garner "support" then it`s case is lost at the outset and that reality WILL prevail.
Many of the activists may well forget that there ARE other staff who have come through similar situations way back "in the day" and who learned a bit from the experience.

Sanity may prevail here too......eventually !

Nostradamus

thedolemoocher wrote: »

How long will this strike happen for by any chance? A few weeks A few months

When date does Her Majesty's British Football Premiership League end? All the 'Pool and a Manure die hards in the CIE unions should know.

Jusy messin. Who knows. They are such a profoundly dysfunctional and distorted culture within Dublin Bus/CIE unions that if it takes destroying the economy of the city centre just like they did back in 1973 the "daycent oul skins" will do it just that in order to have their infantile group psychology serviced.

dub_commuter

I will ask you guys again:

Why are Dublin Bus not publishing which services are not running on the 37/38/39 this evening peak?

I can tell you straight a LARGE number of rush hour services on these routes will be CANCELED tonight, but Dublin Bus is not publishing which services will be effected, even though they have been provided with this information this morning and there is pressure to do this, they are choosing not to do so.

It seems that Dublin Bus are electing not to publish such information in order to create mayhem in evening peak, and when the customers complain that the buses do not turn up, they will in turn blame the garage and use this to gain public support by turning them against the drivers.

If Dublin Bus really cared about their customers as they claim, once again, they would publish the deails of what is effected. I would post them myself, but unfortunately as a number of bills changed on Sunday, the information I have is no longer accurate.

_blank_

The majority of the bus-using public couldn't give a shiney shíte about the "management" or the "workers", they just want to be able to get to and from work in a timely fashion.

It's the whole of Dublin Bus I have a problem with, the service on the routes I use is bad at the best of times, but this just takes the buscuit.

They hadn't even the decency to deliver a circular telling the public about the upcoming changes to the routes.

I hate Dublin Bus, but I'm stuck with them.

I'd love to do a "falling down" on Harristown.

Nostradamus

dub_commuter wrote: »

I will ask you guys again:

Why are Dublin Bus not publishing which services are not running on the 37/38/39 this evening peak?

I can tell you straight a LARGE number of rush hour services on these routes will be CANCELED tonight, but Dublin Bus is not publishing which services will be effected, even though they have been provided with this information this morning and there is pressure to do this, they are choosing not to do so.

It seems that Dublin Bus are electing not to publish such information in order to create mayhem in evening peak, and when the customers complain that the buses do not turn up, they will in turn blame the garage and use this to gain public support by turning them against the drivers.

If Dublin Bus really cared about their customers as they claim, once again, they would publish the deails of what is effected. I would post them myself, but unfortunately as a number of bills changed on Sunday, the information I have is no longer accurate.

Fair enough. Show us the proof of this mass culling of busy rush our services.

SeanieRawks

I wonder will Dublin Bus be okay with it if i take 2 extra days and add them on to the end of my monthly ticket which I payed for? :cool:

dub_commuter

shltter wrote: »

Hopefully not long given the time and effort that went into avoiding a strike it is absolutely ridiculous that we now have disruptions to services over the introduction of a bill where there is a clearly written procedure that both sides have agreed to follow.

It is totally nuts that the amount of effort that went into avoiding this, and now DB are disputing ONE BLOODY BUS that they would not delay by two weeks, it really beggars belief, and you have to suspect there is a hidden agenda here.

shltter wrote: »

You can not give 7 days notice if you are not given 7 days notice of the your employers intentions.
If the company want to give adequate notice of when they intend to breach agreements then the unions will have no problem balloting and issuing notice.

The drivers turned up yesterday to do the work they are contracted to do the employer has changed that in breach of agreements what is the point of agreements and letters from management promising to follow those agreements if the company once it has achieved the desired result in a ballot then rows back on that promise.

I highly believe the reason drivers WERE ONLY GIVEN THEIR NEW WORK PATTERNS (BILLS) on Saturday was so they couldn't give the adequate notice. Dublin Bus could have given them a lot more notice for these changes but gave them very little, I presume in order to try and force changes through.

As said in the above post, think of it as a contract at work. You got a clause put in, and agreed to the contract, then as soon as you signed it they took the clause out, how is that fair?

markpb wrote: »

It's not as simple as you're making out. The company agreed to follow certain procedures when changing routes or rosters. Yesterday morning they changed their minds, knowing it would cause a strike. Yes the drivers should follow normal strike procedure but DB management in H'town deliberately forced this strike.

Management and the unions managed to agree on all but one of the changes - DB could have deferred changes to the last route and not caused this disruption.

As said in the above post, drivers agreed to defer changes or to discuss the problems, management refused to discuss the problems and refused to defer the changes. Therefore management chosen risking an all out strike, when they could have instead chosen to delay withdrawng ONE bus for TWO weeks. ANybody with any kind of commercial and business sense would have chosen the later, but unsurpsingly, yet again the management took the hard line than using common sense.

dub_commuter

Nostradamus wrote: »

Fair enough. Show us the proof of this mass culling of busy rush our services.

I've attached a file showing you which services operate of Harristown, before Sunday's changes. I have not seen the new bills which come into effect since so this information may have changed.

But all of these services up until Sunday were provided by Harristown, and were the ones cancelled during the last Harristown strike.

markpb

Nostradamus wrote: »

Fair enough. Show us the proof of this mass culling of busy rush our services.

It's happened already. The 41s on the Swords road were decimated because most of the peak hour buses operate from Harristown. Likewise the 38, 39 and a lot of expressos. Unless H'town re-opens in the next few hours, those buses will also be missing from this evenings rush hour service.

Ginny

SeanieRawks wrote: »

I wonder will Dublin Bus be okay with it if i take 2 extra days and add them on to the end of my monthly ticket which I payed for? :cool:

Snap, except mine is a yearly and I've already had to write numerous emails to them complaining about their no show buses.
I'm sure they'll also reimburse me for the petrol I'll have to use driving back and forth as long as the strike is on.
DB are woeful when it comes to customer care, I understand they needed to see what drivers turned up today before the could see what buses went out, but Jesus "Curtailed service" that tells me nothing about my route, does it mean I go early and stand at the stop and hope like a pleb one of the 4 buses might run?
No updates on their site since 07:50???!
Eejits.

MiniD

The one thing which is clear from this is that neither the Department Of Transport, Dublin Bus, The Unions or the drivers of Harristown and Clontarf care a damn about the passengers left stranded today.

Since January, passengers have been following this saga through the papers and news. Threatened strikes, then called off, then threatened again, then called off, then we hear all is well with drivers voting in favour of measuers, then a strike with no notice at all to passengers. All this while we passengers hear that 120 buses will be lost from service. I'd also love to know how much money was wasted in the using the service of The Labour Court where it seems it meant nothing. Why would anybody in Dublin consider using the bus as a reliable form of transport? I put that to everybody mentioned above.

The driver who refused to operate the 128 yesterday, what was his complaint about? Was he being asked to work longer hours or changing his working conditions?

SeanieRawks

Forgive me if this has been addressed already, but will the strike be continueing for a specific time frame, or is it a we'll resume work when we're happy to situation?

markpb

SeanieRawks wrote: »

Forgive me if this has been addressed already, but will the strike be continueing for a specific time frame, or is it a we'll resume work when we're happy to situation?

Option b please Bob. Sit and wait while someone else decides if you'll get to work tomorrow or not.

SeanieRawks

hmmm, i wonder if they can reimburse me for the significant percentage of my end of year college results if i can't get to college to hand in assignments this week?

dub_commuter

Ginny wrote: »

Snap, except mine is a yearly and I've already had to write numerous emails to them complaining about their no show buses.
I'm sure they'll also reimburse me for the petrol I'll have to use driving back and forth as long as the strike is on.
DB are woeful when it comes to customer care, I understand they needed to see what drivers turned up today before the could see what buses went out, but Jesus "Curtailed service" that tells me nothing about my route, does it mean I go early and stand at the stop and hope like a pleb one of the 4 buses might run?
No updates on their site since 07:50???!
Eejits.

As stated above, I believe this has been done on purpose to ensure that they gain public support when a bus does not turn up. There are examples of people phoning up and being told buses are running, when they are not.

I have posted here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=60002962&postcount=112

What is operated from Harristown up until this Sunday. However on Sunday new bills came in on some routes so this may not be totally correct.

dub_commuter

MiniD wrote: »

The driver who refused to operate the 128 yesterday, what was his complaint about? Was he being asked to work longer hours or changing his working conditions?

****ter and Meanmachine3 have explained this countless times. Dublin Bus said they would use their agreed procedure for new route agreements. They chose to break their own agreement, surely if your TD made a big promise and as soon as he was elected he said actually he only said that to get elected, you would not be too happy? This is what has happened here.

I agree after all the effort that went in through the labour court, there should not be a strike. However DB BROKE THEIR OWN RULES, so therefore brought the strike on themselves.

In Basic
Dublin Bus lied to their employees in order to influence a yes vote.

MOH

DART platform display in Killester this morning had a note that Irish Rail were accepting Dublin Bus tickets due to the strike. Can't find any mention of this anywhere else - does anyone know if this is in fact the case?

Also, reports that some Clontarf drivers have returned to work after their lie-in work stoppage