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Unofficial Bus Strike...

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12357…21

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    #122
    Nostradamus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Nostradamus


    The lads who run Dublin Bus and this is from first hand experience of meeting them - they struck me as being out of depth considering the size of the organisation and responsibility they have.

    Having said that, no way could a competent management be placed running Dublin Bus as they would have to sack at least 25% of the work force and it would lead to the bearded mullahs of Liberty Hall declaring a national strike which as always, would be allowed to happen by the horrific Fianna Fail government and the economy would be destroyed and the national standard of living reduced to 1980's ear soviet bloc levels for private sector workers who are the real Irish serfdom thanks to Partnership.

    So what is the answer?

    I dunno, but the country is run by gangsters and work-to-rule control freaks, the media is there to protect them and they hold out this carrot of "one day either the EU (if we vote "YES" next time) or Obama will save us!" This prevents the Irish politicians of all parties from doing anything meaningful now - like doing what it takes to end this strike.

    This all goes back to Partnership and the Galway Races FF tent. They are the two horns of the same vicious rhino charging at us.

    We need a new society. This carry on cannot be happening anymore. The Celtic Tiger years are over for private sector workers and the civil services and semi-state unions who are still living the Celtic Tiger lifestyle better stop treating the rest of us like animals.


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    #123
    Jonathan
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 8,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan


    MOH wrote: »
    Also, reports that some Clontarf drivers have returned to work after their lie-in work stoppage
    Link was broken.

    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/some-striking-dublin-bus-drivers-return-to-work-408465.html


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    #124
    Nostradamus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Nostradamus


    dub_commuter wrote: »
    Dublin Bus lied to their employees in order to influence a yes vote.

    I don't care. They are meant to be Irish citizens and not citizens of CIE.

    You see how that works?


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    #125
    dub_commuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭dub_commuter


    Nostradamus wrote: »
    The lads who run Dublin Bus and this is from first hand experience of meeting them - they struck me as being out of depth considering the size of the organisation and responsibility they have.

    Exactly how I see it. Most of management are completely out of their depth and have no clue of how to run a bus company let alone make a success of it, something they have proved for many years
    MOH wrote: »
    DART platform display in Killester this morning had a note that Irish Rail were accepting Dublin Bus tickets due to the strike. Can't find any mention of this anywhere else - does anyone know if this is in fact the case?

    Wouldn't cause as much backlash against the drivers if they posted that would it.


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    #126
    MiniD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 371 ✭✭MiniD


    Dub Commuter, I've read the thread and still can't see the basics of why this guy refused to drive his bus yesterday. I'm not saying he was right or wrong, but just want to know what caused him to say no to driving the 128.

    How exactly would his day have been different yesterday by driving a different timetable. I presume he would still be working the length of time but perhaps have different departure times from terminus etc.


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    #127
    ixoy
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,993 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    DB didn't bring a strike on themselves - the action could have taken place in another way. Yes they did it in a way to seriously annoy the drivers but that doesn't mean that the response deserved a strike, especially one on such a scale as this.

    I think a lot of people here have faced their own changes in work practices and prove flexible to meet the needs. Drivers here are being seen as stubborn and refusing change (and yes, I know there are mechanisms) unless done through laborious channels and it doesn't really make their cause very sympathetic and instead makes the whole union thing seem more anachronistic.


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    #128
    Nostradamus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Nostradamus


    dub_commuter wrote: »
    Exactly how I see it. Most of management are completely out of their depth and have no clue of how to run a bus company let alone make a success of it, something they have proved for many years

    Then you agree that privatisation of DB is worth a go?


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    #129
    dub_commuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭dub_commuter


    MiniD wrote: »
    Dub Commuter, I've read the thread and still can't see the basics of why this guy refused to drive his bus yesterday. I'm not saying he was right or wrong
    I believe it was more a matter of principle. The fact is, if DB are breaking their own rules, and their own agreements, and are allowed to get away with it, when is this going to stop, if they break one rule, whats stopping them from breaking others, and implementing more schedules, even more crazy with little to no notice.

    The facts are, any giving in now will seriously compromise any position that the workers may have in the future, and will just get them walked all over.


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    #130
    maggy_thatcher
    Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭maggy_thatcher


    Nostradamus wrote: »
    So what is the answer?

    1. Shutdown (and sell-off any assets) of DB. Give statutory redundancy to all staff
    2. Create a new organisation "Dublin Transportation Authority" that manages and controls all routes (where the bus goes, frequency etc.), but does not operate any of them
    3. Put out each route to tender. Any company can put a bid on any route, but may not own more than say 25% of the routes in a particular area.
    4. Ensure that there are sensible penalties in place for not operating a route
    That seems to be the only way to replace DB management -- replace the entire organisation.


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    #131
    dub_commuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭dub_commuter


    Nostradamus wrote: »
    Then you agree that privatisation of DB is worth a go?
    Not particuarly. There are some areas in which privtisation has worked well, despite the spin that the media in Ireland have put on things. There are also areas in the UK where it has worked very badly, you would think it was everywhere but this is not the case.

    Managed privatisation in London where the services are run by private companies under contract tends to work better overall, but I really can't see the government, and the state implementing this as they simply do not have the money to do this - so it isn't going to happen.

    Saying that we do need a clean sweep of management in Dublin Bus, and things need to dramtically changed. Privatisation COULD work, however, National Express, by far the worst of the private UK companies, should not be involved in any shape or form.


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    #132
    Nostradamus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Nostradamus


    dub_commuter wrote: »
    Not particuarly. There are some areas in which privtisation has worked well, despite the spin that the media in Ireland have put on things. There are also areas in the UK where it has worked very badly, you would think it was everywhere but this is not the case.

    Managed privatisation in London where the services are run by private companies under contract tends to work better overall, but I really can't see the government, and the state implementing this as they simply do not have the money to do this - so it isn't going to happen.

    Saying that we do need a clean sweep of management in Dublin Bus, and things need to dramtically changed. Privatisation COULD work, however, National Express, by far the worst of the private UK companies, should not be involved in any shape or form.


    Fair enough, but you are still defending the behaviour of CIE unions as if it is noble and for the good of society when they are a shower of self-serving muppets for the most part.


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    #133
    dub_commuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭dub_commuter


    Nostradamus wrote: »
    Fair enough, but you are still defending the behaviour of CIE unions as if it is noble and for the good of society when they are a shower of self-serving muppets for the most part.

    I've never been a big fan of unions to be honest. I don't agree the various "STOP PRIVATISATION" marches and strikes they have done in the past, I don't agree with most of the crap that unions do and am pretty much against them, but I do see where they are coming from, in this instance, and the previous strike at Harristown.

    The facts are the unions have often held the progress back in this country. However the far bigger problem is there are people in DB who have been in it for decades and have graduated into management and are still living in the past. These are the people who are causing more problems than the unions.


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    #134
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    dub_commuter wrote: »

    Saying that we do need a clean sweep of management in Dublin Bus, and things need to dramtically changed.

    Why stop with one shower of muppets? Time for the taxpayer to take out all the trash in dublin bus

    btw folks dublin bus are currently running a customer satisfaction survey :pac:

    http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/Travel-News/Customer-Satisfaction-Survey/


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    #135
    Nostradamus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Nostradamus


    maggy_thatcher wrote: »
    1. Shutdown (and sell-off any assets) of DB. Give statutory redundancy to all staff
    2. Create a new organisation "Dublin Transportation Authority" that manages and controls all routes (where the bus goes, frequency etc.), but does not operate any of them
    3. Put out each route to tender. Any company can put a bid on any route, but may not own more than say 25% of the routes in a particular area.
    4. Ensure that there are sensible penalties in place for not operating a route
    That seems to be the only way to replace DB management -- replace the entire organisation.

    As long as the DTA has a credible and independent public transport users representative group on the board with statutory powers and not just a glorified customer feedback position, then I agree with your plan.

    As usual, I find it completely sickening that in all this the government as always acts as if the public transport users who pay for this are not a part of eh, "public transport" in Ireland.

    Which tells you all you need to know about them and their relationship with public sector unions. One holds us down while the other rapes us.

    We need a new society.


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    #136
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,022 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    MiniD wrote: »
    Dub Commuter, I've read the thread and still can't see the basics of why this guy refused to drive his bus yesterday. I'm not saying he was right or wrong, but just want to know what caused him to say no to driving the 128.

    How exactly would his day have been different yesterday by driving a different timetable. I presume he would still be working the length of time but perhaps have different departure times from terminus etc.
    I'd like an answer to this question too. Any takers?


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    #137
    maggy_thatcher
    Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭maggy_thatcher


    Nostradamus wrote: »
    As usual, I find it completely sickening that in all this the government as always acts as if the public transport users who pay for this are not a part of eh, "public transport" in Ireland.

    Hmm - maybe we should get rid of any ministerial car allowances, and just give them annual bus/rail tickets :)

    I can't imagine them going for that though.


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    #138
    philip100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14 ✭philip100


    I have been reading Dub commuters comments as well as the radio and I still have not got a direct answer as to what exactly was the driver refusing to do. Yes we have heard that it was against the agreement but all we want to know is WHAT was he ask to do which offended him so much, meaning was he told to start earlier, work later, what exactly??? Oh we really do not want to hear the agreement story, just tell us what was so terrible for him. PLEASE!!!


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    #139
    MOH
    Registered Users Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭MOH


    dub_commuter wrote: »

    Wouldn't cause as much backlash against the drivers if they posted that would it.

    Eh, what? Given that the DART wouldn't suit the vast majority of bus users, I don't really see your point


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    #140
    Max Power1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,272 ✭✭✭✭Max Power1


    Fire them all.

    If I didnt work due to an unofficial strike i would be fired.

    Cant express it strongly enough. Fire them all. No notice given before a strike is hardly acceptable union practice now is it? Typical state company, job for life etc, its ridiculous.

    At least they wont be paid!! Serves 'em right
    "Dublin Bus, however, says the reforms will be implemented and drivers involved in today's protest will not be paid. "

    Link: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/some-striking-dublin-bus-drivers-return-to-work-408465.html


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    #141
    Jip
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,418 ✭✭✭Jip


    dub_commuter wrote: »
    ...........but I do see where they are coming from, in this instance.........

    ......is there are people in DB who have been in it for decades and have graduated into management and are still living in the past. These are the people who are causing more problems than the unions.

    Eh, this is an unoffical strike that currently has nothing to do with the union.

    And where did these people who are now in management graduate from ? Presumably drivers so one can also presume that they were in the very same union.


    There's a goon on Joe Duffy now trying to defend his position. Turns out we're all wrong here, it's for altruisitc reasons, nothing to do with their own laziness.


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    #142
    maggy_thatcher
    Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭maggy_thatcher


    Max Power1 wrote: »

    At least they wont be paid!! Serves 'em right

    It's standard practice that strikers don't get paid -- if you don't work, you don't get paid, it's as simple as that. I'd hope that their holidays are pro-rata reduced as well, and if they're are any other benefits, they are also suspended for the duration of the strike.


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    #143
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,022 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Anybody participating in unofficial work stoppages whould be fired for failing to attend work. Public sector unions are bad enough, unofficial actions are completely beyond the pale, especially when the dole queues are lengthening day by day. Free up jobs for people who actually will work in a flexible manner. The management should take advantage of the situation and sack them legally while they can.


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    #144
    Boom Boom
    Registered Users Posts: 240 ✭✭Boom Boom


    They can all kiss my hairy little @r$€;, I had to drive to work this morning cos there was no service at all not one of them no 40's, 83 or 140 and because of that i have to pay parking €30 a day on street, but it gets better, i have just been clamped so my €4.40 a day fair has just jumped to €90 excluding petrol.


    How long is this unofficial strike expected to last, because now i may be forced to have to take annual leave as i cant afford to get to work for a week :mad::mad:

    lets introduce more competition more bus companies then see what happens because as a public transport system this country sucks in providing........

    cant wait till those clowns come round looking for votes there is going to be some slaps dished out

    rant over


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    #145
    Savman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,323 ✭✭✭Savman


    Dublin Bus belongs in Jurassic Park with Aer Lingus and the other dinosaurs. No buses today, nothing new there then. They are the best advertisment for owning a car in Dublin, I'll never get back all those hours of my life wasted standing at bus stops in the pissing rain for phantom services that came when they felt like it.

    Tear the whole thing down.


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    #146
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,022 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Savman wrote: »
    Dublin Bus belongs in Jurassic Park with Aer Lingus and the other dinosaurs. No buses today, nothing new there then. They are the best advertisment for owning a car in Dublin, I'll never get back all those hours of my life wasted standing at bus stops in the pissing rain for phantom services that came when they felt like it.

    Tear the whole thing down.
    To be fair Aer Lingus has gone through significant reforms and changes in work practices (mostly under Willie Walsh) and has had far fewer stoppages in achieving it. Aer Lingus has gone from a typical state owned airline to one that can hold its own against the most cut-throat airline in the world. I commend Aer Lingus and the staff for being somewhat realistic in the face of competition. Not many state airlines have reformed to the levels of EI and indeed some have gone to the wall or are about to (Alitalia is a closer comparison to DB than Aer Lingus).


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    #147
    ixoy
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,993 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    Jip wrote: »
    There's a goon on Joe Duffy now trying to defend his position. Turns out we're all wrong here, it's for altruisitc reasons, nothing to do with their own laziness.
    They need to explain themselves clearly (as some on here are attempting to do) because currently this "altruism" looks like that, instead of a slight change to the 128 timetable which might inconvenience customers, we have instead a load of buses taken off. Yeah, I'm sure their customers are delighted with this altruistic gesture.


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    #148
    Savman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,323 ✭✭✭Savman


    murphaph wrote: »
    To be fair Aer Lingus has gone through significant reforms and changes in work practices (mostly under Willie Walsh) and has had far fewer stoppages in achieving it. Aer Lingus has gone from a typical state owned airline to one that can hold its own against the most cut-throat airline in the world. I commend Aer Lingus and the staff for being somewhat realistic in the face of competition. Not many state airlines have reformed to the levels of EI and indeed some have gone to the wall or are about to (Alitalia is a closer comparison to DB than Aer Lingus).
    Sorry can't agree having used them a few times since the start of the year. Anyway that's a different discussion and last thing we need is a topic swerve.

    Back to the Dublin Busasaurus, can't believe they caused so many service cancellations this morning. :eek:
    Bye bye public support.


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    #149
    dfx-
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,678 Mod ✭✭✭✭dfx-


    Who didn't drive their buses today?

    DB drivers.

    Who didn't do their work today?

    DB drivers

    Who had a hissy fit over 'agreed protocols'?

    DB drivers

    Who have closed down a garage supposedly over some minutes waiting at a terminus of one route?

    DB drivers

    Who left customers standing waiting because they didn't do their jobs?

    DB drivers

    Who left waiting by DB drivers cares whether there's agreed protocols?

    No-one.

    Who left waiting by DB drivers cares about the intricacies of the Labour Court?

    No-one.

    Who should care about either of the last two questions?

    No-one.

    DB drivers simply refused to do their job this morning, no matter how it's dressed up or what is hidden behind. Their job is to drive Dublin Buses to get revenue for their management and they refused to do it.

    You can put a DB worker in a shiny new garage, but the old ways still remain.


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    #150
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,022 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Savman wrote: »
    Sorry can't agree having used them a few times since the start of the year.
    Me too (last friday last time), guess either I was lucky or you were unlucky! lol.
    Savman wrote: »
    Anyway that's a different discussion and last thing we need is a topic swerve.
    Agreed. Back to TyranasaurBus Atha Cliaththus


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    #151
    angel01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,030 ✭✭✭angel01


    dfx- wrote: »
    Who didn't drive their buses today?

    DB drivers.

    Who didn't do their work today?

    DB drivers

    Who had a hissy fit over 'agreed protocols'?

    DB drivers

    Who have closed down a garage supposedly over some minutes waiting at a terminus of one route?

    DB drivers

    Who left customers standing waiting because they didn't do their jobs?

    DB drivers

    Who left waiting by DB drivers cares whether there's agreed protocols?

    No-one.

    Who left waiting by DB drivers cares about the intricacies of the Labour Court?

    No-one.

    Who should care about either of the last two questions?

    No-one.

    DB drivers simply refused to do their job this morning, no matter how it's dressed up or what is hidden behind. Their job is to drive Dublin Buses to get revenue for their management and they refused to do it.

    You can put a DB worker in a shiny new garage, but the old ways still remain.

    In all fairness, if I was expected to do extra work and not get paid for it, I would strike as well, there is no way I would work for nothing.


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