Unofficial Bus Strike...

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Extra work me bollix.

They are employed to drive busses.

They are entitled to their breaks/lunch/OT Payment like the rest of us.

If they are told to drive a particular bus, they should bloody well drive it, and not have a hissy fit because it isn't the same way as yesterday.

Fúcking hell, if MY manager, in the Private Sector, tells me to do something differently, I get on with it.

If I said I wanted a weeks notice or else I'm not doing it, I'd be fúcked out the door.

And rightfully so.

KC61

There does appear to be a reasonable number of buses appearing in service now out of Clontarf Depot.

There have been buses reported as operating on the 27, 29A, 31 and 130 this afternoon, which would suggest that there are some dissenting views....

Dub commuter, you seem to be extraordinarily well informed about this situation. I have had a long interest in the operations of public transport in Dublin, but not even I would suggest to know what discussions between Head Office and local management take place as you seem to. I am somewhat curious that someone who is neither an employee nor a member of management seems to be very familiar with the internal dealings of same. Personally, I would have to question where your information is coming from and whether there is an ulterior motive in its distillation all over an internet messageboard (not necessarily yours but that of its source)?

There has obviously been a breakdown in internal procedures, that much is obvious, but from long experience with the CIE Group, things tend not to be as clear cut as one side makes them out to be. And I would be fairly sure that is the case here. The only way that this will be solved is when both sides sit down and talk to one another, rather than taking extreme action as in Harristown this morning.

angel01

Des wrote: »

Extra work me bollix.

They are employed to drive busses.

They are entitled to their breaks/lunch/OT Payment like the rest of us.

If they are told to drive a particular bus, they should bloody well drive it, and not have a hissy fit because it isn't the same way as yesterday.

Fúcking hell, if MY manager, in the Private Sector, tells me to do something differently, I get on with it.

If I said I wanted a weeks notice or else I'm not doing it, I'd be fúcked out the door.

And rightfully so.

I can't say I agree, you are entitled to what it says in your contract, if your employer messes around with this, you are entitled to not work and strike.

They have a right to do what they believe in and it is easy to blame the drivers, DB have acted dreadfully, instead of doing the right thing and trying to help the public, why haven't they printed on their website, what times of routes have been cut and what is a limited service anyway?

Tonight do I just go along to the stop and just hope that my bus turns up?

Savman

angel01 wrote: »

I can't say I agree, you are entitled to what it says in your contract, if your employer messes around with this, you are entitled to not work and strike.

So if little Pete arrives up to work in Tesco and 'decides' he doesn't like the new layout of the shelves and refuses to work, do you think he'd have a job to come back to in the morning? Cos if you do then I'd love to come live on your planet.

It's an old govt. institution with no apparent accountability. Needs a revamp IMHO.

KC61

ixoy wrote: »

They need to explain themselves clearly (as some on here are attempting to do) because currently this "altruism" looks like that, instead of a slight change to the 128 timetable which might inconvenience customers, we have instead a load of buses taken off. Yeah, I'm sure their customers are delighted with this altruistic gesture.

It would appear that (and I am speculating here) the running time given for the 128 to operate from one terminus to another has been cut by 5-10 minutes per journey, due to it having plenty of slack in the schedule. This has not had a major impact on the public timetable, but has resulted in a saving of one or two vehicles.

My understanding of what the issue is for the drivers is that they are claiming that they have not agreed to this cut in running time and that the company has breached procedures by going ahead with the roster changes.

To put this into context, every timetable/roster change that affects "marked-in" drivers, i.e. drivers who work a set roster every week (usually on one route) has to be approved in advance by the a majority of those drivers before it can be implemented.

So not only do you have the problems of the Department not licensing servicees, there is also (to an extent) an internal veto on change also.

Unfortunately the passenger does not have the same voice.

From dub commuters post here, the drivers are saying that they will have insufficient running time to get from one terminus to another, especially during peak hour.

Personally, from my own observations, I'd have to query that as I have seen two buses at Palmerston Park terminus every time I've passed it (peak and off-peak) which would suggest the contrary. Again, the risk of delays to the service would have to be measured, and it may indeed not be as high as drivers fear.

But it does raise serious issues about who manages the business, and indeed how it is managed from day to day.

angel01

Savman wrote: »

So if little Pete arrives up to work in Tesco and 'decides' he doesn't like the new layout of the shelves and refuses to work, do you think he'd have a job to come back to in the morning? Cos if you do then I'd love to come live on your planet.

It's an old govt. institution with no apparent accountability. Needs a revamp IMHO.

That is a silly comparison in my opinion. No of course not but I can see what the drivers are complaining about, if my employer turned around and asked me to work more hours and not get paid for it, I wouldn't be happy and I wouldn't do it.

philip100

KC61 wrote: »

Dub commuter, you seem to be extraordinarily well informed about this situation. I have had a long interest in the operations of public transport in Dublin, but not even I would suggest to know what discussions between Head Office and local management take place as you seem to. I am somewhat curious that someone who is neither an employee nor a member of management seems to be very familiar with the internal dealings of same. Personally, I would have to question where your information is coming from and whether there is an ulterior motive in its distillation all over an internet messageboard (not necessarily yours but that of its source)?

There has obviously been a breakdown in internal procedures, that much is obvious, but from long experience with the CIE Group, things tend not to be as clear cut as one side makes them out to be. And I would be fairly sure that is the case here. The only way that this will be solved is when both sides sit down and talk to one another, rather than taking extreme action as in Harristown this morning.

could not agree more, if i was a dub driver or union rep wishing to change public opinion, I may consider a user name like "dub public transport user" or maybe even "dub commuter" to suggest I am just one of the masses and it is all the fault of the management. But obviously no-one here would do something as rediculous as that.

shltter

Des wrote: »

Extra work me bollix.

They are employed to drive busses.

They are entitled to their breaks/lunch/OT Payment like the rest of us.

If they are told to drive a particular bus, they should bloody well drive it, and not have a hissy fit because it isn't the same way as yesterday.

Fúcking hell, if MY manager, in the Private Sector, tells me to do something differently, I get on with it.

If I said I wanted a weeks notice or else I'm not doing it, I'd be fúcked out the door.

And rightfully so.

There are agreed procedures they have been agreed by all sides, the company prior to the yes vote PROMISED to follow those procedures. They didn't end of story.

If I don't do what I am supposed to do when I am supposed to do it I will be disciplined and reprimanded the company have not done what they are supposed to and promised to do.

shltter

Savman wrote: »

So if little Pete arrives up to work in Tesco and 'decides' he doesn't like the new layout of the shelves and refuses to work, do you think he'd have a job to come back to in the morning? Cos if you do then I'd love to come live on your planet.

It's an old govt. institution with no apparent accountability. Needs a revamp IMHO.

No but if little pete arrived up and was told his hours of work, his starting time finishing time and break time had been changed without following the agreed procedures for changing those I think little pete would have a right to feel agrieved and say no I will work the hours I am contracted and have agreed to work.

markpb

angel01 wrote: »

Tonight do I just go along to the stop and just hope that my bus turns up?

Ring the depot beforehand and ask them. Every DB commuter should (unfortunately) have the phone number of their depot on speed dial.

philip100 wrote: »

could not agree more, if i was a dub driver or union rep wishing to change public opinion, I may consider a user name like "dub public transport user" or maybe even "dub commuter" to suggest I am just one of the masses and it is all the fault of the management. But obviously no-one here would do something as rediculous as that.

Is that back seat modding I see?

dub_commuter

philip100 wrote: »

could not agree more, if i was a dub driver or union rep wishing to change public opinion, I may consider a user name like "dub public transport user" or maybe even "dub commuter" to suggest I am just one of the masses and it is all the fault of the management. But obviously no-one here would do something as rediculous as that.

Read my post history, you will see a number of times when I have criticised Dublin Bus, it's drivers and even spole out to promote rival services. Why would I do this if I was a so called union rep etc?

KC61 - Just posting what I heard heard, whether it is correct or not I don't know first hand, but this is what I have been told.

angel01

markpb wrote: »

Ring the depot beforehand and ask them. Every DB commuter should (unfortunately) have the phone number of their depot on speed dial.



Is that back seat modding I see?

I have rang both the HQ and the depot but I am still unsure. Give it a shot I guess.

dub_commuter

angel01 wrote: »

They have a right to do what they believe in and it is easy to blame the drivers, DB have acted dreadfully, instead of doing the right thing and trying to help the public, why haven't they printed on their website, what times of routes have been cut and what is a limited service anyway?

By giving out both incorrect information as some people have been given over the phone, and not providing specifics, this will lead to many frustrated commuters, who will ring HQ, HQ will blame drivers and public will then blame all drivers.

Whatever you think of the drivers, surely everyone will agree tht Dublin Bus should be posting what buses are being cut on the curtailed routes?

But no, they have a hidden agenda.

philip100

said like a try diplomat

murphaph

shltter wrote: »

No but if little pete arrived up and was told his hours of work, his starting time finishing time and break time had been changed without following the agreed procedures for changing those I think little pete would have a right to feel agrieved and say no I will work the hours I am contracted and have agreed to work.

You're so out of touch with the real world it's unbelievable!

There are no set procedures for people in "little pete's" shelf stacking job when it comes to changes in work practice and rightly so. "little pete's" manager just erm, manages his human capital and deploys them around the shop when and where he sees fit. Heck, even in "good office jobs" people work longer hours than they get paid for quite regularly.

KC61 summed it up perfectly. the drivers have an "internal veto" on what work they do. This is outrageous and shows that unions in this country have gone too far. Of course, the union never sanctioned this lie-in so it's unnoficial action and those involved should be disciplined. In my last job, failing to attend work was a sackable offence and these drivers should be sacked forthwith.

scorpioishere

angel01 wrote: »

That is a silly comparison in my opinion. No of course not but I can see what the drivers are complaining about, if my employer turned around and asked me to work more hours and not get paid for it, I wouldn't be happy and I wouldn't do it.

But most of them are lazy anyway. They doesn't follow the timetable and also not very helpfull at all. They should all be fired. At this time where there is a recession , they should be lucky to have a job and not doing a ridiculous strike. They have too much money anyway so a pay cut should be apply to them.

philip100

dub_commuter wrote: »

Read my post history, you will see a number of times when I have criticised Dublin Bus, it's drivers and even spole out to promote rival services. Why would I do this if I was a so called union rep etc?quote]

Said like a try diplomat

dub_commuter

murphaph wrote: »

KC61 summed it up perfectly. the drivers have an "internal veto" on what work they do. This is outrageous and shows that unions in this country have gone too far. Of course, the union never sanctioned this lie-in so it's unnoficial action and those involved should be disciplined. In my last job, failing to attend work was a sackable offence and these drivers should be sacked forthwith.

If Dublin Bus had there way, certain routes would have been cut a lot more than they are actually going to be, in some cases it is only drivers who have actually got many improvements made to services, because HQ are sure as hell didn't care about a lot of things in the Celtic tiger days.

dub_commuter

scorpioishere wrote: »

But most of them are lazy anyway. They doesn't follow the timetable and also not very helpfull at all. They should all be fired. At this time where there is a recession , they should be lucky to have a job and not doing a ridiculous strike. They have too much money anyway so a pay cut should be apply to them.

A very small number of them are like that. And I have seen them like this, Unfortunately in my experience Clontarf and Harristown are nowhere near the worst garages in that respect. I personally use Harristown services nearly every day of every week, and find them on time, polite, and always follow the timetable.

Unfortunately another depot is everything you say, will not communicate with passengers, frequently do not stick to timetable, etc. Havingt experienced most depots in Dublin BUs inthe last few years, if you think that everywhere is awful you need to sample a few more routes rather than the 38/A, which I admit is bloody woeful.

KC61

dub_commuter wrote: »

Read my post history, you will see a number of times when I have criticised Dublin Bus, it's drivers and even spole out to promote rival services. Why would I do this if I was a so called union rep etc?

KC61 - Just posting what I heard heard, whether it is correct or not I don't know first hand, but this is what I have been told.

I'm certainly not suggesting that you are, but I think you need to be very careful in posting things like this - they may not be true!!!

You're only posting one side of the argument, and there generally is another.

Most of your posts have had bold highlighting suggesting that they were completely true, yet now you're doubting the veracity of it yourself.

While I appreciate that you are without a bus service today, and are rightly very frustrated by that, I think that a little more caution in posting information that could be incorrect be exercised.

I honestly do not know the full facts of the situation, but I get the impression that there is a bit more to it than is being presented here.

The sooner both sides talk and resolve this the better.

dub_commuter

KC61 wrote: »

Most of your posts have had bold highlighting suggesting that they were completely true, yet now you're doubting the veracity of it yourself.

In my defence, I did point out that the travelling time issue, with regards to turn-around times and the reduction in travelling time was what I believed - this is the part that I have got second hand from a reliable source.

KC61

dub_commuter wrote: »

In my defence, I did point out that the travelling time issue, with regards to turn-around times and the reduction in travelling time was what I believed - this is the part that I have got second hand from a reliable source.

Fair enough, but much of what you have posted here would appear to be what you have been told by someone.

Might they not have their own agenda in telling you all of this so that you then post it on the internet without so much as a caveat that it might be wrong?

There is an internal dispute here, and strong suggestions of more than just rosters as the core issue, and I certainly am not going to start making broad accusations against either side when I am not in possession of the full facts.

I think to just rehash everything that you were told and attempt to present it as the whole truth is something that you need to be very careful about as it might just be at variance from the reality of the situation.

As regards the running times, you suggested that delays were inevitable. How do you support that argument? From my own observations, running time is something that the 128 has in ample supply, peak and off-peak.

Savman

angel01 wrote: »

That is a silly comparison in my opinion. No of course not but I can see what the drivers are complaining about, if my employer turned around and asked me to work more hours and not get paid for it, I wouldn't be happy and I wouldn't do it.

OMG!! :eek::eek: DB want drivers to work for free?

Savman

KC61 wrote: »

I am not in possession of the full facts.

Nobody seems to have any idea so let's just simplify.
Turn the ignition, drive the bus.

angel01

Savman wrote: »

Nobody seems to have any idea so let's just simplify.
Turn the ignition, drive the bus.

Oh yes of course, everything is as simple in life as that :rolleyes:

murphaph

angel01 wrote: »

Oh yes of course, everything is as simple in life as that :rolleyes:

Are you private sector Angel?

jaybird

scorpioishere wrote: »

But most of them are lazy anyway. They doesn't follow the timetable and also not very helpfull at all. They should all be fired. At this time where there is a recession , they should be lucky to have a job and not doing a ridiculous strike. They have too much money anyway so a pay cut should be apply to them.

You haven't the first clue. Lazy? Too much money? You try being a juniour bus driver at Harristown, you wouldn't be saying that. MY OH is one of them, he'd be better off on the dole than what he earns at Dublin Bus, but he works damn hard. Imagine never knowing what shift you will be on from one day to the next. Imagine only finding out the night before whether you will be in at 5am the next day or 12pm? Or you could be on a split shift, with several hours break inbetween 2 half shifts, and they have taken back the spilt shift allowance and make you do that 4 hour break in town, away from your own garage and unable to go home.
Its long hours, crap pay (unless you've been there many years) you get abuse all day long from passengers complaining about the buses and the timetables, but you just drive when and where you are told, you don't go when you want. You go into some areas and get bloody rocks thrown at the windows.

Then after weeks of negotiations, at the last minute they pull a fast one on you BREAKING THE LABOUR COURT RECOMMENDATIONS and changing the schedule without any notice, adding routes and hours onto your day, with no consultation whatsoever. Drivers, who have a responsibility to safely carry hundreds, even thousands of passengers everyday, lets just make them work longer for no extra pay, and no thought to safety or common decency, or even the law.

And you're supposed to say, oh well, lets just get walked over yet again, because the commuters, who seemingly don't care about the permanent loss of services and buses, and who make no noise whatsoever about losing their local buses, will have a problem getting to work for a day or 2? You'll have a problem getting to work everyday when the cut YOUR bus off the timetable next.
And then you call them all lazy selfish bastards anyway.

Well thanks very much.

Savman

jaybird wrote: »

Then after weeks of negotiations, at the last minute they pull a fast one on you BREAKING THE LABOUR COURT RECOMMENDATIONS

See, yer gonna have to expand on that because Joe Public has been kept out of this particular loop.
Chillax btw!

Cleopatra12

jaybird wrote: »

Or you could be on a split shift, with several hours break inbetween 2 half shifts, and they have taken back the spilt shift allowance and make you do that 4 hour break in town, away from your own garage and unable to go home.
Its long hours, crap pay

There is no such thing as a split shift allowance (i think you may be confusing it with something else). Drivers are paid shift pay irresprctive of the type of shifts they do (but no doubt there are some exceptions to the rules).

philip100

jaybird wrote: »

You haven't the first clue. Lazy? Too much money? You try being a juniour bus driver at Harristown, you wouldn't be saying that. MY OH is one of them, he'd be better off on the dole than what he earns at Dublin Bus, but he works damn hard. Imagine never knowing what shift you will be on from one day to the next. Imagine only finding out the night before whether you will be in at 5am the next day or 12pm? Or you could be on a split shift, with several hours break inbetween 2 half shifts, and they have taken back the spilt shift allowance and make you do that 4 hour break in town, away from your own garage and unable to go home.
Its long hours, crap pay (unless you've been there many years) you get abuse all day long from passengers complaining about the buses and the timetables, but you just drive when and where you are told, you don't go when you want. You go into some areas and get bloody rocks thrown at the windows.

Then after weeks of negotiations, at the last minute they pull a fast one on you BREAKING THE LABOUR COURT RECOMMENDATIONS and changing the schedule without any notice, adding routes and hours onto your day, with no consultation whatsoever. Drivers, who have a responsibility to safely carry hundreds, even thousands of passengers everyday, lets just make them work longer for no extra pay, and no thought to safety or common decency, or even the law.

And you're supposed to say, oh well, lets just get walked over yet again, because the commuters, who seemingly don't care about the permanent loss of services and buses, and who make no noise whatsoever about losing their local buses, will have a problem getting to work for a day or 2? You'll have a problem getting to work everyday when the cut YOUR bus off the timetable next.
And then you call them all lazy selfish bastards anyway.

Well thanks very much.

OH PLEASE!!!!
Been there done that, I really hope you are not suggesting I shead a tear for Dublin Bus Drivers.